Canada offers qualifed support for the US.

[Pliablemoose]

Must not flame liberal Canadian, bites lip, draws blood....

 

[NightTrain]

Originally posted by: Phuz
Sorry, but you just don't understand. Please, find a way, somehow, to listen to CBC radio... listen to the people call in, and voice their reasoning and opinions on the situation. You'll be shocked by the callers, their opinions and how insightful and informed they are on the situation. The Canadian stance isn't as black and white as you see it. The majority don't CARE about UN approval or not, they just don't want this war.

I was listening to the radio the other night and every caller believed crop circles were evidence the mothership was speaking to them.

What's more scientific than that? I believe now.

 

[Phuz]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Skoorb

You've misconceived my stance on the war... a ... lot. I'm not against a regime change, I'm against the way this war has been carried out.

But of course you have no advice on what would have been better, other than to say with UN approval - which was evidently not going to occur.

Indeed. Show us your solution.

Since when does the US care about alternative solutions?
Saddam & Government officlas - Assasinated. Oh right, he's got look alikes.. that makes it impossible.
I don't think that route was taken because the world would be outraged... and the US couldn't get away with that quite as easily.. removing a political leader from power by... death... generally isn't taken lightly...

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: Phuz

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Skoorb

You've misconceived my stance on the war... a ... lot. I'm not against a regime change, I'm against the way this war has been carried out.

But of course you have no advice on what would have been better, other than to say with UN approval - which was evidently not going to occur.

Indeed. Show us your solution.

Since when does the US care about alternative solutions?
Saddam & Government officlas - Assasinated. Oh right, he's got look alikes.. that makes it impossible.
I don't think that route was taken because the world would be outraged... and the US couldn't get away with that quite as easily.. removing a political leader from power by... death... generally isn't taken lightly...

Uh, so you figure Bush, Powell and others who have actually served in the military, unlike you, are more willing to send in the troops - with a certain amount of them sure to be slaughtered - than an available quick and easy solution?

I suppose it'd be real easy to assassinate Saddam, his two sons, any of his male cousins and his top circle of 5-7 members. Now THAT'S one magic bullet.

Still waiting for that real solution.

 

[freakflag]

Since when does the US care about alternative solutions?

What other solutions?

UN resolutions? Tried a handfull...obviously didn't work.
Economic sanctions? Tried that too...the military got fat while the civilians starved.
Inspections? Please.

How about we send him flowers? We haven't tried that yet. Was that your "Oh I'm so much more enlightened than you warmongering savages" solution?

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: freakflag
How about we send him flowers?

Flowers with KILLER BEES in them?

 

[dabuddha]

Originally posted by: freakflag

Since when does the US care about alternative solutions?

What other solutions?

UN resolutions? Tried a handfull...obviously didn't work.
Economic sanctions? Tried that too...the military got fat while the civilians starved.
Inspections? Please.

How about we send him flowers? We haven't tried that yet. Was that your "Oh I'm so much more enlightened than you warmongering savages" solution?

Dont waste your breath with him. He's too close minded obviously.

 

[Phuz]

I don't care what the goverment considers a posibility... and I don't care about even my OWN suggestion, I was simply trying to prove that you don't have to put a country through war to make this situation better. You can't force peace, by putting a country through hell.

Fine, lets reverse the question. Tell me why war was the only way?

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: Phuz
I don't care what the goverment considers a posibility... and I don't care about even my OWN suggestion, I was simply trying to prove that you don't have to put a country through war to make this situation better. You can't force peace, by putting a country through hell.

Fine, lets reverse the question. Tell me why war was the only way?

12 years of attempted inspections & sanctions...

I hear chirping.....

 

[Phuz]

Originally posted by: freakflag

Since when does the US care about alternative solutions?

What other solutions?

UN resolutions? Tried a handfull...obviously didn't work.
Economic sanctions? Tried that too...the military got fat while the civilians starved.
Inspections? Please.

How about we send him flowers? We haven't tried that yet. Was that your "Oh I'm so much more enlightened than you warmongering savages" solution?

Nope. I'm not a try hugger, pal. I'm talking about killing their leadership, cutting the snakes head off.

You're only insulting your own country if you think you can mobilize 250k people, co-ordinate missles with GPS, cloak an airplane etc, etc, but you can't assisinate a man and his government leaders? .....

 

[freakflag]

Dont waste your breath with him. He's too close minded obviously.

Talk about irony...

Fine, lets reverse the question. Tell me why war was the only way?

If you can't think of another solution, then that pretty much leaves force, doesn't it. Nobody was going to talk the Baath party out of power. If you believe otherwise, you're a nincompoop.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: Phuz

Originally posted by: freakflag

Since when does the US care about alternative solutions?

What other solutions?

UN resolutions? Tried a handfull...obviously didn't work.
Economic sanctions? Tried that too...the military got fat while the civilians starved.
Inspections? Please.

How about we send him flowers? We haven't tried that yet. Was that your "Oh I'm so much more enlightened than you warmongering savages" solution?

Nope. I'm not a try hugger, pal. I'm talking about killing their leadership, cutting the snakes head off.

You're only insulting your own country if you think you can mobilize 250k people, co-ordinate missiles with GPS, cloak an airplane etc, etc, but you can't assassinate a man and his government leaders? .....

So you're suggesting assignation as a tool for diplomacy?

 

[Phuz]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: Phuz
I don't care what the goverment considers a posibility... and I don't care about even my OWN suggestion, I was simply trying to prove that you don't have to put a country through war to make this situation better. You can't force peace, by putting a country through hell.

Fine, lets reverse the question. Tell me why war was the only way?

12 years of attempted inspections & sanctions...

I hear chirping.....

Heh, the inspections were a joke. Anyone can hide anything. Of course they weren't going to find his toys... they're all 50m below the sand in some desert wasteland.

 

[blahblah]

Originally posted by: SkoorbI don't care about Quebec so let's go with the other number. I believet that that 60% of Canadians simply don't know any better because they live in such a suffocating liberal bubble.

While I agree with some of your general view on the war, ie we as Canadians should have offered some support to our American Friend.

But I do not and can not agree with your point above. Canada, like US is a free country, just because people do not have same opinion, views and beliefs as you do, do not imply they are uneducated, uninformed.

In fact, we hear it on the news all the time that Majority of Canadian do not support war. Wheather they are wrong or not if not for you and me to decide. We can only point out our reasons for believing in something and try to convience them of our point. Not to coerce/force our views.

As for the war, I would support the American's not because I'd believe they are doing the right thing. As of now, no one has given me a clear objective of the war and it's consequences afterwords. I would support America because they as our neighbours have helped us in the past. It's more like your brother is fighting, you'd help him out now and worry about it later.

But please do realize that Canada is an Independent country, like America, we have the rights to our own opinion and actions even though they may differ from that of our neighbour. Even in America, there are still a signifcant amount of population that does not agree with the war. This by no means imply they are less of American then those who agree. After all, we are just exercising our give freedom.

This situation is not as simple as removing Saddam from power. Fighting Terrorism is much like fighting a Disease. We need to fight the cause, not the symptoms. It's is far more important to find out why people like Saddam and Bin Laden can gather the support they do in Muslim world. It is far more important to find out why people like them exists and what shaped and caused their views. And why is American their #1 enermy. Once we know the symptoms and cause, we can then work to "cure" this.

What's going to happen at the end of the war? How is America going to resolve Palestine & Isreal Issue. These will be key as to wheather the effor in IRAQ is worth while.
While some argue that the war is not about Terror, but more about Oil, I do believe that in general, the government is doing what it think is the best. (Though I am sure some from the administration will benefit from this personally, but that's beside the point)

Finally, have our American Friend considered what would happen after the war? What if IRAQ elects a hard lined Muslim who is preaching the same message as Saddam? What if IRAQ is thankful for Allied's assistance, but wants no additional "help" from the allies? What's going to happen with the other Axis of Evil, IRAN and North Korea?

Anyways, I don't think any of us can predict what could happen. But I fear that once we win the war, the real (political) battle will begin and it could further worsen the situation in Middle East.

 

[freakflag]

You're only insulting your own country if you think you can mobilize 250k people, co-ordinate missles with GPS, cloak an airplane etc, etc, but you can't assisinate a man and his government leaders? .....

OK, I see now. You're in favor of violence as a solution, you're just opposed to the amount of violence.

Lemme ask you a question, and be honest, have you ever lost a friend at a football game? Just got separated for a second while going to buy beer during halftime? Kinda tough to find him, eh? Now imagine a football game where there are 25 million spectators and your friend is trying to ditch you.
And he paid seven other guys to dress exactly like him and try and draw you away, and they are armed and have instructions to shoot you on sight.

Does that give you a little perspective? This isn't Counter-Strike, man.

 

[Phuz]

This situation is not as simple as removing Saddam from power. Fighting Terrorism is much like fighting a Disease. We need to fight the cause, not the symptoms. It's is far more important to find out why people like Saddam and Bin Laden can gather the support they do in Muslim world. It is far more important to find out why people like them exists and what shaped and caused their views. And why is American their #1 enermy.

This isn't the same. Terrorism can be inflicted from anywhere in the world. It doesn't need a home or a location. It works with cells... networks, it doesn't have a central leadership, a head. They have their goals, and operate independtly in any country. Saddam, on the other hand, is a leader of a country...he has to stay in his country, so do the other officials. Thus removing those individuals would do a lot.

 

[NightTrain]

Originally posted by: Phuz


Nope. I'm not a try hugger, pal. I'm talking about killing their leadership, cutting the snakes head off.

You're only insulting your own country if you think you can mobilize 250k people, co-ordinate missles with GPS, cloak an airplane etc, etc, but you can't assisinate a man and his government leaders? .....

It's illegal for any person employed or acting on behalf of the United States government to engage in an assassination attempt.

 

[Phuz]

Originally posted by: freakflag

You're only insulting your own country if you think you can mobilize 250k people, co-ordinate missles with GPS, cloak an airplane etc, etc, but you can't assisinate a man and his government leaders? .....

OK, I see now. You're in favor of violence as a solution, you're just opposed to the amount of violence.

Lemme ask you a question, and be honest, have you ever lost a friend at a football game? Just got separated for a second while going to buy beer during halftime? Kinda tough to find him, eh? Now imagine a football game where there are 25 million spectators and your friend is trying to ditch you.
And he paid seven other guys to dress exactly like him and try and draw you away, and they are armed and have instructions to shoot you on sight.

Does that give you a little perspective? This isn't Counter-Strike, man.

No, I don't find you're anaology very accurate. They droped a tomahawk on Saddams dinner table the first night of the war.
Intelligence is key. They can track anyone. Satalite imagery is totally insane... regardless, they had intelligence on the ground anyway.

If I was lost in a crowd, I wouldn't have GPS, Satalites, tracking beacons, voice detection/recognition, xray/infared

edit:

OK, I see now. You're in favor of violence as a solution, you're just opposed to the amount of violence.

Yes, if necessary evils must be done, they must be done right.
You can't be utilitarian and say that this war is for the greatest good when you say casual damage is accetable.
How is the means justifying the ends?

 

[Alistar7]

Canada and the US will always be strong friends, our mutual values are too close, as is our location and our interests in security for any other result....

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: Phuz

Originally posted by: freakflag

You're only insulting your own country if you think you can mobilize 250k people, co-ordinate missles with GPS, cloak an airplane etc, etc, but you can't assisinate a man and his government leaders? .....

OK, I see now. You're in favor of violence as a solution, you're just opposed to the amount of violence.

Lemme ask you a question, and be honest, have you ever lost a friend at a football game? Just got separated for a second while going to buy beer during halftime? Kinda tough to find him, eh? Now imagine a football game where there are 25 million spectators and your friend is trying to ditch you.
And he paid seven other guys to dress exactly like him and try and draw you away, and they are armed and have instructions to shoot you on sight.

Does that give you a little perspective? This isn't Counter-Strike, man.

No, I don't find you're anaology very accurate. They droped a tomahawk on Saddams dinner table the first night of the war.
Intelligence is key. They can track anyone. Satalite imagery is totally insane... regardless, they had intelligence on the ground anyway.

If I was lost in a crowd, I wouldn't have GPS, Satalites, tracking beacons, voice detection/recognition, xray/infared

edit:

OK, I see now. You're in favor of violence as a solution, you're just opposed to the amount of violence.

Yes, if necessary evils must be done, they must be done right.
You can't be utilitarian and say that this war is for the greatest good when you say casual damage is accetable.
How is the means justifying the ends?

An Elusive Target

During his quarter-century in power, Saddam is believed to have survived numerous assassination and coup attempts.

"He's very paranoid, and with good reason," said former CIA Director James Woolsey.

According to Woolsey, Saddam's security is all but impenetrable. Reports from inside Iraq say the Iraqi leader sleeps in a different bed every night and often travels underground in a network of tunnels. He is said to wear a bulletproof fedora at times.

Intelligence analysts say Saddam has many doubles who make public appearances in his stead, in an effort to confuse attempts to pin down his location.

And when Saddam sees visitors, they must go through elaborate security measures, including body searches and even X-rays, according to some accounts. "They inspect everything. Two people inspect you ? even the socks," said Abass al-Janabi, who was personal secretary to Saddam's son Odai before defecting in 1998. "He's afraid of assassination. He know very well that people doesn't like him."

One of Saddam's most effective security measures, according to analysts, is instilling fear by responding to any threat to his life with brutal retaliation.

When Saddam learned of a coup being planned by military officers in 1995, he reacted by having the rebellious officers killed in acid baths, according to Bob Baer, a former CIA operative who tried to arrange U.S. support for the plot. "It eats away their skin over the course of I don't know how many minutes," said Baer, adding, "It's a bad way to go."

From ABC

Yeah baby, I'll assinate Saddam & take a hot tub acid bath

 

[Phuz]

Originally posted by: NightTrain

Originally posted by: Phuz


Nope. I'm not a try hugger, pal. I'm talking about killing their leadership, cutting the snakes head off.

You're only insulting your own country if you think you can mobilize 250k people, co-ordinate missles with GPS, cloak an airplane etc, etc, but you can't assisinate a man and his government leaders? .....

It's illegal for any person employed or acting on behalf of the United States government to engage in an assassination attempt.

That is exactly right. And Bush supposedly dropped a bomb on Saddams lap the first night of the war.
The only way you could get away with murdering the leadership of a country is by being at war with them. (!)

 

[Phuz]

Pliablemoose, you're gullible.

 

[NightTrain]

Originally posted by: Phuz

Originally posted by: NightTrain

Originally posted by: Phuz


Nope. I'm not a try hugger, pal. I'm talking about killing their leadership, cutting the snakes head off.

You're only insulting your own country if you think you can mobilize 250k people, co-ordinate missles with GPS, cloak an airplane etc, etc, but you can't assisinate a man and his government leaders? .....

It's illegal for any person employed or acting on behalf of the United States government to engage in an assassination attempt.

That is exactly right. And Bush supposedly dropped a bomb on Saddams lap the first night of the war.
The only way you could get away with murdering the leadership of a country is by being at war with them. (!)

Yet you blame us for going to war instead of trying to assassinate him. Are you actually reading any of the stuff you type?

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: Phuz
Pliablemoose, you're gullible.

So when the facts don't support your argument, you resort to name calling?

You're a historical revisionist & the facts aren't even history yet...

BTW, I grew up in the Dakotas, Moved away from about 10 miles from the Canadian border when I left, I found the Canadians I met to be much more logical & realistic than they're portrayed lately. Really nice, hardworking folks. Met quite a few on my vacations too.

 

[freakflag]

Yes, if necessary evils must be done, they must be done right.

Pliablemoose, you're gullible.

You and your Nickelodeon diplomacy...bah.