Canada: Possible fall of government

[dennilfloss]

Ignatieff just gave his first conference as the new chief of the Liberal Party of Canada.:thumbsup:

He said that he is prepared to defeat the budget if it does not meet the test of national relevance and effectiveness (so he has to see it first) and he is prepared to govern in a coalition . He also has no plan to renegotiate the terms of the coalition agreement that were signed with the other opposition parties since the Governor General needs something firm in writing to show commitment and stability before she can ask the coalition to form the new government.

Finally, as Ignatieff said himself, he speaks for the liberal party now. That might sound authoritarian to some but it's good to have a firm hand on the rudder. Not a control freak like Harper though.

I like also what he almost said when asked about negative CPC advertising directed at him. He almost said "Go ahead, make my day..."

There's a new sheriff in town and he doesn't fire blanks.

 

[dennilfloss]

Just heard Harper will fill 18 Senate seats before Christmas.

 

[Number1]

Ignatieff, PM, agree to meet before presentation of budget

I would say a win win situation for both parties. iggy will get what he want in the budget and avoid taking power with the coalition wich would damage his leadership. He also get more time to organize and prepare for the next election. The government gets to stay in power for a bit longer and deliver the economic stimulus sooner then would be possible if defeated.

I think it will be good for the country.

 

[Firebot]

Originally posted by: Number1
Ignatieff, PM, agree to meet before presentation of budget

I would say a win win situation for both parties. iggy will get what he want in the budget and avoid taking power with the coalition wich would damage his leadership. He also get more time to organize and prepare for the next election. The government gets to stay in power for a bit longer and deliver the economic stimulus sooner then would be possible if defeated.

I think it will be good for the country.

Ignatieff in power is a win for centrists and right of center in Canada IMO.

Ignatieff is very similar to Harper (and many compare Ignatieff more to a man by the name of Stockwell Day) and will be a good shift back to the centre stage of politics for the Liberals after becoming a socialist mess over the past few years. He is very pro-military which will be a good thing for the Canadian military, and many of his stances are very similar to Harper's. He fits more as a Conservative then a Liberal.

Best of all, Dion is gone. Bye bye Green Shaft .

Those on the left who think that Ignatieff is their saviour from Harper are in for a rude awakening. In some ways, Ignatieff is even more conservative then Harper.

 

[Firebot]

http://www.compas.ca/polls/081...ommonsTurmoil-EPCB.htm

By a more than 2:1 margin, Canadians call for another election if the choice faced by the Governor-General were between inviting Stephane Dion to form a government and hold a fresh general election weeks after the most recent one. That is the key finding from a national representative poll completed December 4, 2008.
If an election were held today, Stephen Harper would win a large majority based on nation-wide support of 51% compared to 20% for the Liberals, 10% for the NDP, 6% for the Greens, and 8% for the Bloc. Harper would sweep seat-rich Ontario with 53% of the vote compared to 24% for the Liberals and 10% for the NDP in that province and would surpass Dion in Quebec with 32% of the vote compared to 19% for the Liberals and 35% for the Bloc.

Key factors in this lightening speed transformation of public opinion:

66% of Canadians oppose the Bloc Quebecois having a say in who forms the government;


48% have confidence in Stephen Harper as Prime Minister in the current economic climate compared to 14% for Michael Ignatieff in second place, 11% for NDP leader Jack Layton, 8% for Stephane Dion, 4% for Bob Rae, and 3% for Gilles Duceppe;


58% believe that the Coalition's real or main motivation was a power grab while 28% perceive the Opposition as honestly believing that Harper is a poor manager of the economy;


61% believe that the Liberals, following their drop in support in the October election, should not be trying to form a government.

I love how those in this thread were passing the coup d'etat as what 'Canada wanted' I think in the end the coalition idea will be a thing of the past come January, Dion having been removed with the Liberals having a new leader, and Harper emerging stronger but more humble at the same time. All in all, it is a good thing.

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: Firebot
http://www.compas.ca/polls/081...ommonsTurmoil-EPCB.htm

By a more than 2:1 margin, Canadians call for another election if the choice faced by the Governor-General were between inviting Stephane Dion to form a government and hold a fresh general election weeks after the most recent one. That is the key finding from a national representative poll completed December 4, 2008.
If an election were held today, Stephen Harper would win a large majority based on nation-wide support of 51% compared to 20% for the Liberals, 10% for the NDP, 6% for the Greens, and 8% for the Bloc. Harper would sweep seat-rich Ontario with 53% of the vote compared to 24% for the Liberals and 10% for the NDP in that province and would surpass Dion in Quebec with 32% of the vote compared to 19% for the Liberals and 35% for the Bloc.

Key factors in this lightening speed transformation of public opinion:

66% of Canadians oppose the Bloc Quebecois having a say in who forms the government;


48% have confidence in Stephen Harper as Prime Minister in the current economic climate compared to 14% for Michael Ignatieff in second place, 11% for NDP leader Jack Layton, 8% for Stephane Dion, 4% for Bob Rae, and 3% for Gilles Duceppe;


58% believe that the Coalition's real or main motivation was a power grab while 28% perceive the Opposition as honestly believing that Harper is a poor manager of the economy;


61% believe that the Liberals, following their drop in support in the October election, should not be trying to form a government.

I love how those in this thread were passing the coup d'etat as what 'Canada wanted' I think in the end the coalition idea will be a thing of the past come January, Dion having been removed with the Liberals having a new leader, and Harper emerging stronger but more humble at the same time. All in all, it is a good thing.

Wow this is fantastic news. Who said Canadian politic was boring?

 

[NoShangriLa]

Originally posted by: Firebot
http://www.compas.ca/polls/081...ommonsTurmoil-EPCB.htm

By a more than 2:1 margin, Canadians call for another election if the choice faced by the Governor-General were between inviting Stephane Dion to form a government and hold a fresh general election weeks after the most recent one. That is the key finding from a national representative poll completed December 4, 2008.
If an election were held today, Stephen Harper would win a large majority based on nation-wide support of 51% compared to 20% for the Liberals, 10% for the NDP, 6% for the Greens, and 8% for the Bloc. Harper would sweep seat-rich Ontario with 53% of the vote compared to 24% for the Liberals and 10% for the NDP in that province and would surpass Dion in Quebec with 32% of the vote compared to 19% for the Liberals and 35% for the Bloc.

Key factors in this lightening speed transformation of public opinion:

66% of Canadians oppose the Bloc Quebecois having a say in who forms the government;


48% have confidence in Stephen Harper as Prime Minister in the current economic climate compared to 14% for Michael Ignatieff in second place, 11% for NDP leader Jack Layton, 8% for Stephane Dion, 4% for Bob Rae, and 3% for Gilles Duceppe;


58% believe that the Coalition's real or main motivation was a power grab while 28% perceive the Opposition as honestly believing that Harper is a poor manager of the economy;


61% believe that the Liberals, following their drop in support in the October election, should not be trying to form a government.

I love how those in this thread were passing the coup d'etat as what 'Canada wanted' I think in the end the coalition idea will be a thing of the past come January, Dion having been removed with the Liberals having a new leader, and Harper emerging stronger but more humble at the same time. All in all, it is a good thing.

How can it be a good thing when Harper manipulated the political process to stay in power?

Harper joined Block coalition in 2004, and now cried to the Governor General who helped destroyed our democratic system.

He is a shister just like the rest of the Canadian politico punters.

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

How can it be a good thing when Harper manipulated the political process to stay in power?

Harper joined Block coalition in 2004, and now cried to the Governor General who helped destroyed our democratic system.

He is a shister just like the rest of the Canadian politico punters.

But so did the coalition who wanted to install themselves in power no mater what the government did.

It is also worth noting that Harper operated within all parliamentary rules.

I think it is a good thing that we don't have Dion as a prime minister right now, don't you think?

 

[little elvis]

Originally posted by: Number1

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

How can it be a good thing when Harper manipulated the political process to stay in power?

Harper joined Block coalition in 2004, and now cried to the Governor General who helped destroyed our democratic system.

He is a shister just like the rest of the Canadian politico punters.

But so did the coalition who wanted to install themselves in power no mater what the government did.

It is also worth noting that Harper operated within all parliamentary rules.

I think it is a good thing that we don't have Dion as a prime minister right now, don't you think?

But now the precedent has been set, about the lose a confidence vote, no worries, just shut down parliament.

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: little elvis

Originally posted by: Number1

Originally posted by: NoShangriLa

How can it be a good thing when Harper manipulated the political process to stay in power?

Harper joined Block coalition in 2004, and now cried to the Governor General who helped destroyed our democratic system.

He is a shister just like the rest of the Canadian politico punters.

But so did the coalition who wanted to install themselves in power no mater what the government did.

It is also worth noting that Harper operated within all parliamentary rules.

I think it is a good thing that we don't have Dion as a prime minister right now, don't you think?

But now the precedent has been set, about the lose a confidence vote, no worries, just shut down parliament.

It will be at the discretion of the GG and he/she will act in the best interest of the country as she did here.
And what alternative did she have this time? Trow out a government that was not allowed to govern and replace it with an untested coalition led by a prime minister who had the worst showing for the liberal ever?

The GG did the right thing this time.

 

[Number1]

Some idiot posted in here that Ignatief wasn't shooting blank in. LOL
Ignatief's only perceived advantage right now is his threat to bring down the government and assume command of a "coalition". Iggy has admited himself in front of his troops that there is NO guaranty the GG would hand over power to the coalition after defeating the government.
The liberals are not ready for an election and the Canadian public's view is against a "coalition"government. Ignatief will not risk his leadership position by taking the government down now or the near future.

Once again, Harper is in control and will decide if there is an election. All he has to do is include a poison pill in the budget and the Liberal, humiliated, would have no choice but to bring him down or look like a bunch of idiot.

Conclusion:

1: Harper is not shooting blanks.
2: Iggy is in a position to react. That's not leadership.

Test for liberal supporters:

Q1: Who is shooting blanks?

Q2: Who will call an election if there is one early next year?

Good luck

 

[desy]

> Subject: FW: How To Depress A Bloc Quebecois Reporter
>
> By Howard Galganov
>
> Friday, December 05, 2008
>
> Freedom Isn't Free
>
> I received an interview request from a reporter with the Journal de
> Montreal Newspaper (December 3, 2008) the day before Harper's meeting with
> the Governor General.
>
> She wanted to know my reaction to the proposed Coalition between the
> NDP, Liberals and the Bloc Quebecois.
>
> For those of you who don't know much or anything about the Journal de
> Montreal, it is a French language daily that is the closest thing Quebec has
> to a 'national newspaper'.
>
> It is also a VERY racist Quebecois nationalist rag, to the point of
> being Quebec's Separatist cheerleader.
>
> During my QPAC days in Quebec, the Journal de Montreal liked to refer
> to me in their headlines as l'Anglohone Juif Galganov. In translation: Anglo
> Jew Galganov. Where was the Human Rights Commission then?
>
> The Journal de Montreal can best be described as a sensationalist
> tabloid that mixes gossip, sports and news. It should also be noted that
> more than a million French Quebecers read the Journal de Montreal every day.
>
> The reporter expected me to answer her question with a degree of
> outrage towards this coalition, so imagine her surprise when I told her that
> I was all for it?
>
> She asked if I was kidding? How could I possibly be for a federal
> political union that includes the Bloc Quebecois?
>
> She was more surprised with my answer when I told her that this
> coalition between Socialists and Separatists will not last beyond a month or
> so, and will guarantee two unexpected and unintended consequences.
>
> The first consequence will be the end of any hopes for Leftist
> electoral victories for either the Liberals or the Socialist NDP for a
> generation or more to come, freeing Canada from the type of FREEBIE LEFTIST
> policies that are destroying the fabric of our country.
>
> The next consequence really shook her when I explained that a
> coalition with the Quebec Separatist Bloc would hasten the departure of
> Quebec from Confederation, allowing Canada to finally grow without theQuebec
> anchor around our neck.
>
> The interview became more of a discussion as she asked me if I thought
> the rest of Canada would throw Quebec out. And if they did, why would they
> do that now and not before?
>
> My answer stunned her even more. And from the sound of her voice, she
> was more than somewhat depressed when I explained to her that Canada does
> not need Quebec. More to the point, Canada will be far better off without
> Quebec.
>
> It is Quebec that needs Canada, since Quebec brings nothing to the
> table other than threats, costs and complications that hinder the growth of
> our country.
>
> I also explained that the rest of Canada didn't need our domestic and
> foreign policies decided upon by a beggar province. Not to mention that
> Canada's official bilingualism policies are discriminating against more than
> 97% of the Canadian population (English speaking) living outside of Quebec.
>
> With this proposed coalition, the Bloc will win several big
> concessions that will include:
>
> MORE MONEY from the rest of Canada - But the rest of Canada is broke.
>
> Ontario is a HAVE-NOT province. And if it isn't yet, it certainly will
> be soon.
>
> At less than $50 per barrel, and still falling like a lead balloon,
> Alberta is dying with the lack of demand for its petroleum products, and
> will not earn enough money to sustain its budgetary goals without cutting
> programs, raising taxes, or dipping into its Heritage Fund. All of which are
> akin to cancer for Albertans.
>
> Where else will Quebec expect to get the BILLIONS of dollars their
> deal with the two idiots, Stephane Dion and Taliban Jack have promised?
>
> Just imagine the outrage from the West, when Alberta has to write a
> check to a Separatist province that helped wipeout a government Albertans
> voted for near unanimously?
>
> Just imagine the added outrage from the West when six Quebec
> Separatists are named to Canada's Senate as part of the deal?
>
> Just imagine the boiling-over outrage from the West when Quebec
> Separatists must first vet all of Parliaments business before it can be
> brought to the floor, much less implemented?
>
> I CAN'T WAIT I TOLD HER!
>
> Then I reminded her that certain inalienable decisions would be made
> the moment Quebec and Canada part company.
>
> By federal law, Canadian Banks and Insurance companies must be
> headquartered within Canada. There go the banks. By law, airlines cannot
> pick-up and deliver passengers from one national location to another
> national location unless that airline is headquartered in that nation.
> Goodbye Air Canada.
>
> Then there's the Canada Export and Development Corporation that
> underwrites just about all of Bombardier's sales abroad. Goodbye Bombardier
> along with other federally financed corporations in Quebec.
>
> Goodbye all the federal government jobs that disproportionately employ
> French Quebecers. Especially those who can speak some English.
>
> And Goodbye official bilingualism.
>
> At this point in our conversation, her voice was quite subdued when
> she asked if I think Canada will push Quebec out the door?
>
> No was my response. I think Quebec and Canada will separate from each
> other much like Czechoslovakia did, when the Czechs and Slovakians both
> decided to go their separate ways without any fanfare, great debates,
> referendums or anything else.
>
> It just happened, much the way I see it just happening between Canada
> and Quebec where there will be no reason for Quebec to stay within Canada
> once the financial tap is closed.
>
> And there will be no reason for Canada to want Quebec within
> Confederation when the rest of Canada finally learns that we will be far
> better off without Quebec dragging us down.
>
> Even though Harper bought himself and the Conservatives 6 weeks of
> political peace by suspending Parliament to the end of January, much of the
> damage has already been done to the long-term future betweenQuebec and
> Canada by this attempted Putsch by the Coalition of Idiots.
>
> The rest of Canada really doesn't care much for what Quebec wants
> anymore, since the rest of Canada is more concerned with what it needs to
> stay afloat.
>
> I explained to her that I am just one political Blogger out of
> thousands who are spreading a similar message by asking pertinent questions
> while bringing demographic FACTS to the table.
>
> And in spite of what the out-of-touch conventional media seems to
> think, Quebec's future within Canada is not looking all that good. And that
> looks pretty good for the rest of Canada.
>
> We owe Duceppe, Dion and Taliban Jack our gratitude for finally
> pushing the envelope too far.
>
>
> Best Regards . . . Howard Galganov

 

[Number1]

From the globe and mail.

"Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff will move an amendment to the budget that would require the Conservatives to release regular status reports on the economy.

The amendment will force the government to provide reports updating its progress on implementing its stimulus plan in March, June and December. Mr. Ignatieff said each report will provide the Liberals with an opportunity to withdraw its support of the government if the progress is deemed unacceptable."

Iggy says to the government: Do what you said you are going to do or we will defeat you! How can the government refuse this?

Masterful, what a difference from Dion.

Like I said before, the budget will pass but it does not mater what the government does. We will have another election within 6 months when the liberals are ready. That way the liberals can blame the government for the deficit and make themselves look like our saviors.

I will say it again, RIP coalition LOL. What a joke that was.

 

[D1gger]

Originally posted by: Number1
From the globe and mail.

"Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff will move an amendment to the budget that would require the Conservatives to release regular status reports on the economy.

The amendment will force the government to provide reports updating its progress on implementing its stimulus plan in March, June and December. Mr. Ignatieff said each report will provide the Liberals with an opportunity to withdraw its support of the government if the progress is deemed unacceptable."

Iggy says to the government: Do what you said you are going to do or we will defeat you! How can the government refuse this?

Masterful, what a difference from Dion.

Like I said before, the budget will pass but it does not mater what the government does. We will have another election within 6 months when the liberals are ready. That way the liberals can blame the government for the deficit and make themselves look like our saviors.

I will say it again, RIP coalition LOL. What a joke that was.

I think you have this exactly right. This amendment gives the Liberals a chance to force an election anytime they feel the timing is right for them. We are once again going to be blessed with an ineffective government that cannot push their agenda and will wind down the middle of the road trying not to offend anyone. How typically Canadian.

 

[imported_Champ]

Well just coming out of poli class and we discussed this as it happened...Our prof believes that if this budget passes there is no potential for a coalition gov because harper can ask for an election and prove the time frame is correct because he was able to pass a budget. But seriously how is it possible to give a stimulus without running a deficit...people demand a bailout/stimulus then are angry cause it costs money thats what I don't get

Personally if I had to do it all money would go to infrastructure and government programs...create some jobs and have something that exists at the end

 

[Number1]

It seams to me the government is willing to do anything to stay in power. It's disgracefuland they can only blame themselves for being in this position.

I was just watching Danny boy trowing insult at the government and the budget. Funny thing is, the Liberal are also supporting this budget. Hum, will the flags go down?



It's kind of funny to see Layton on TV complaining about the new Lib/Con "coalition". Funny guy....

 

[Number1]

Duceppe is all over the Liberals. LOL Seriously, these people were going to work together?

 

[libs0n]

It's not every day that a man rejects the confidence of the house, but there you have Mr. Ignatieff.

 

[Firebot]

Duceppe and Layton all over the Liberals make me laugh. One month ago they were supposed to be forming a coalition with Dion Green Shaft at the helm, and now that the Liberals actually have a more presentable leader they start barking like insignificant chihuahuas. Layton is mad for power, and Duceppe is only looking out for Quebec handouts. As much rethoric that Ignatieff was spewing during the coalition talk and before the budget, we all knew that he would support the budget as long as it wasn't heavily partisan. It's all political trash talk anyways. Ignatieff knows that a coalition government would be disastrous for Canada, and this is not the right time to play political games.

As I said in an earlier post, Ignatieff is actually a good thing for a conservative Canadian, as it forces the Liberals to start moving to the right after the disastrous Green Shaft Dion regime meant to destroy western Canada. Ignatieff could easily be a Conservative party member, and can be confirmed by readings his personal political views. The Liberals need a lot more house cleaning, but they need to continue to right the ship to be a viable centrist choice again.

 

[Number1]

Danny will be asking the 6 NFL Liberal MP to vote against the budget. That bastard can huff and puff all he wants, he can't effect the way the Canadian parliament will go forward at this time.

 

[desy]

Ig wasn't keen on the coalition and left that sword for Dion to fall on 'and did'
If the libs move back away from the left I'll consider voting for them again. I was getting sick of the nanny state they were turning us into.
I have no love of Harper but IMO was the best choice of the time
As far as Layton goes "i h8te that guy' a lib/con coalition would represent almost 75% of the population. Sounds good to me Jack

 

[SickBeast]

Layton is seriously pissed at the Liberals now.

I've personally lost faith in the Conservative government. The more I see of Obama, the more I realize what a terrible leader Harper is.

I think the home renovation program is a complete joke and is not fair policy. We have homeless people, and yet we're giving money to people so they can frivilously beautify their existing house.

We already have a huge shortage of construction workers in Canada. We do not need to stimulate that part of our economy.

They did not do enough to help the unemployed. More money should be given to upgrade our public transit infrastructure, and the auto industry should be supported in a move to go electric. An investment in wind power infrastructure would also make sense.

 

[Firebot]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
I think the home renovation program is a complete joke and is not fair policy. We have homeless people, and yet we're giving money to people so they can frivilously beautify their existing house.

The homeless don't pay taxes and don't work either. How the heck will giving money to the homeless stimulate the economy? It's not about beautifying your house either, it's called a home renovation program, not home decorating program. New roof, plumbing, fence building are normal home renovation projects. To stimulate the economy you need consumer spending.

It's actually the smartest part of the budget. To get the tax credit, consumers need to present a receipt for the renovations done. Receipt = contractors have a paper trail done for their work = no more under the table cash deals = reduction of tax evasion for unreported income. Ironically, the Canadian government may see a gain from this in taxes paid.

We already have a huge shortage of construction workers in Canada. We do not need to stimulate that part of our economy.

Where do you get that misinformation? It was the case when the Canadian economy was booming. Then the US implosion happened and brought Canada down along with it into a recession.

http://www.tolerance.ca/Article.aspx?ID=31239&L=en

Construction falls in December 2008

The construction industry posted a large employment decline in December (-44,000), following two months of little growth. According to the Canadian Mortgage and Housing Corporation, housing starts decreased in November to their lowest level in seven years. Despite December's employment loss, construction employment remained 4.7% higher than at the start of the year, the result of growth in the first nine months of 2008.

They did not do enough to help the unemployed. More money should be given to upgrade our public transit infrastructure, and the auto industry should be supported in a move to go electric. An investment in wind power infrastructure would also make sense.

The government did try to support the auto industry with a 3 billion dollar bailout. It was refused because it put limits on executive bonuses. Supporting the auto industry to go electric? They are on life support, now is not the time. Canada does not have the money to keep GM and Chrysler afloat and has very little say in what they should do. If too many demands are made, they will simply shut down their remaining Ontario plants and take their ball home. The US is the big player here.

Could you ever imagine how bad a situation Canada would be, with Dion in power and putting in force his Green Shaft which would effectively shut down the only industries keeping Canada afloat in this trying time?

As for more money to pay for this and that, we just took out 38 billion dollars more then is coming in. Who do you think will ultimately pay for this? This is a stimulus package, and I think there's already too much bloat with unnecessary programs being instituted as it is.

 

[Number1]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com.../BNStory/politics/home

NDP launches anti-Ignatieff blitz

"New Democrats have produced a series of scathing radio ads lambasting the Liberals for propping up Stephen Harper's minority Conservative government.

The ads come one day after Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff announced that his party will allow Tuesday's budget to pass, provided that the government agrees to issue periodic progress reports on the budget's implementation and effectiveness.

Mr. Ignatieff says his ploy amounts to putting the Harper government on probation but the NDP ads assert that the Liberals are simply rubber stamping the budget.

The ads claim Mr. Ignatieff has failed his first test as leader and has thrown in his lot with Mr. Harper; they argue that the NDP's Jack Layton is the only leader strong enough to stand up to the Prime Minister."
==================================================================================

Any leverage they might have had with this "coalition"is now completely gone but with Iggy at the helm, the Liberals don't need the coalition to control the show.

Poor Layton is mad. He will never get to sit on the government side of the house.

I predict an election in June and a small Liberal majority. There will be big loses for the NDP. The more Canadian get to know Iggy the more they are going to like him.

Hell I might even vote for him, who knows...




Its probably time to kill this thread.