Canada: Possible fall of government

[dennilfloss]

One thing I wonder is how much input Her Excellency will get/require from Her Majesty The Queen of Canada on this matter. After all, the final decision lies with the Sovereign and the Governor General is her representative.

 

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: dennilfloss
One thing I wonder is how much input Her Excellency will get/require from Her Majesty The Queen of Canada on this matter. After all, the final decision lies with the Sovereign and the Governor General is her representative.

That is interesting actually

 

[dennilfloss]

From a Canadian politics forum I frequent:

She requires no input at all. Whether or not she chooses to seek guidance from Her Majesty given her many years of experience will be for the Governor General to determine. However, the Queen has fully delegated virtually all of her powers to the Governor General without encumbrance. The final decision will rest with the Governor General.

 

[dennilfloss]

"May you live in interesting times" is not really a curse to some of us but a blessing.

 

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: dennilfloss
From a Canadian politics forum I frequent:

She requires no input at all. Whether or not she chooses to seek guidance from Her Majesty given her many years of experience will be for the Governor General to determine. However, the Queen has fully delegated virtually all of her powers to the Governor General without encumbrance. The final decision will rest with the Governor General.

Which forum is this?

 

[dennilfloss]

The Canadian Politics Forum mentioned (linked in the bold sentence) near the top of this page.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/canchat

 

[imported_Champ]

This is going to be interesting to say the least...But for one thing I am not pleased with it...I am not a conservative or a liberal or NDP infact I identify with neither party but one thing I have a problem with is the minority government situation...nothing gets done and its just a bunch of bickering...All I hope is that the PQ does not turn out to be the hidden leader of this government

 

[speg]

Well well well... when this all first started I thought it was just going to be more posturing to get concessions out of the Conservatives, but it's looking more and more like this might actually happen.

Stay tuned!

 

[dennilfloss]

The coalition accord and economic policy document are available for reading here in PDF format.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story...1/coalition-talks.html

 

[dennilfloss]

Letters to Her Excellency from Layton and Dion.

http://www.liberal.ca/pdf/docs/081201_GG_Layton_en.pdf
http://www.liberal.ca/pdf/docs/081201_GG_Dion_en.pdf

 

[desy]

The electorate is going to punish the NDP and Liberals when the coalition fails in 6 months

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: desy
The electorate is going to punish the NDP and Liberals when the coalition fails in 6 months

Maybe.

 

[Steeplerot]

Conservatives got owned looks like.
Funny how Canada follows our lead in so many things political.
Almost feel bad for anyone still supporting the Conservative movement.
Oh well, maybe they will wake up and realize why they are failing.
Doubtful though, we are talking about Conservatives and change.
Is there any country in the world left where Conservatives are not a minority party?
Nowhere to run even.

 

[desy]

Our conservatives are more commie than your democrats

 

[SickBeast]

I heard on the radio today that Paul Martin will be some sort of special economic advisor. I can't think of anyone better in our political system to run this country's coffers during the type of times we are going through economically right now.

I actually think that this coalition will be more effective than the Conserative minorities we have had. Harper couldn't even talk today; it was like he was on drugs. He's obviously quite upset over what's going on.

 

[desy]

The only poll I've seen that even comes close to supporting a coalition is the The Star and even that base is coming up about 50/50
every other media poll outlet is overwhelming against a coalition

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
I heard on the radio today that Paul Martin will be some sort of special economic advisor. I can't think of anyone better in our political system to run this country's coffers during the type of times we are going through economically right now.

I actually think that this coalition will be more effective than the Conserative minorities we have had. Harper couldn't even talk today; it was like he was on drugs. He's obviously quite upset over what's going on.

Sucks to be him, but he gambled when he didn't need to. I still can't fathom WTF he was thinking to even consider it.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: desy
The only poll I've seen that even comes close to supporting a coalition is the The Star and even that base is coming up about 50/50
every other media poll outlet is overwhelming against a coalition

Unfortunately, the way people have been voting, we can't really have a functioning democracy right now unless we alter the way our system works dramatically.

We basically have 25% of people voting Liberal, and maybe 35% voting Conservative, with the rest being a wash of the 3 other parties.

The Conservative minority called an election after the summer break because they said that the opposition wouldn't let them pass anything.

Really in a sense, a coalition that can at least pass a few bills and accomplish *something* during this economic mess we're in is better than a Conservative government that can't get anything through the house.

The Conservatives need to dump Flaherty. He's to blame, rather than Harper IMO. How they could hire him after what happened in Ontario under Harris is beyond me.

 

[Stunt]

Liberals keep quoting 64% of Canadians didn't vote for the Conservatives...
This in itself is misleading as only 54% of Canadians voted for the three coalition parties (they represent 53% of the seats). The Bloc has only been bribed in with promises for Quebec and isn't part of the coalition itself; so now we are at 44% of popular vote and only 37% of the seats in the House.

The Conservatives got 38% of the popular vote just a few weeks ago during the election. The Liberals won back to back majorities in 1993, 1997, 2000 with 41% and 38%, 40% of the popular vote respectively. The Conservatives have just as much support as Chretien did in his tenure at the helm of the Canadian Government. Welcome to vote splitting on the left, Conservatives had to live with it for years; get over it or merge. Conservatives vs. Liberal-Democrats; works for me.

 

[Martin]

The Globe and Mail is calling on Harper to resign, which to be honest is probably the best thing that can happen right now. Conservatives get to keep their minority, parliament will not suffer Harper's hyperpartisanship, the liberals will get a chance to pick a leader and the Bloc won't get any concessions and the GG won't have to make any hard choices (prorogue, election etc).

Link

Of course, I don't see that happening, not unless conservative party operatives really really go after him.

 

[speg]

Why the heck did Harper try and cut the other parties funding?! That was like teasing a starving dog with a juicy steak.

I am watching question period right now and my head is starting to hurt

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Stunt
Liberals keep quoting 64% of Canadians didn't vote for the Conservatives...
This in itself is misleading as only 54% of Canadians voted for the three coalition parties (they represent 53% of the seats). The Bloc has only been bribed in with promises for Quebec and isn't part of the coalition itself; so now we are at 44% of popular vote and only 37% of the seats in the House.

The Conservatives got 38% of the popular vote just a few weeks ago during the election. The Liberals won back to back majorities in 1993, 1997, 2000 with 41% and 38%, 40% of the popular vote respectively. The Conservatives have just as much support as Chretien did in his tenure at the helm of the Canadian Government. Welcome to vote splitting on the left, Conservatives had to live with it for years; get over it or merge. Conservatives vs. Liberal-Democrats; works for me.

I'd prefer to see every government be a coalition. Fake majorities are pretty stupid.

Any way you look at it, a Liberal-NDP coalition would represent far more voters than the Conservatives, and the Bloc is effectively part of the coalition, and representation.

I'm not suggesting that Harper should never have had the chance to govern after winning the election, but his 'undemocratic' arguments are pretty weak. He fucked up bad, and he knows it.

 

[dennilfloss]

From a Canadian politics forum:

Bourque posted that conservative talk-show host Lowell Green of Ottawa radio station CFRA has reported that "If coalition forms gvt, Tory MPs may resign en masse ..." While I don't fully trust the quote, I do find the idea interesting.

So what would happen if 143 MPs resigned en masse? While the opposition could just shrug and call for by-elections, would they still have the 'moral authority' to govern in such an event? It certainly would be an interesting proposition.

And my response:

Gee... How typical of Lowell Green. I'm surprised there are still people taking this reactionary blowhard seriously. Such a childish mass resignation would point out to an immature worldview of absolutes (black or white, right or wrong, no greys) where one should not cooperate with others who harbour differing points of view or compromise because they are on the evil side of the equation whereas "we're on a mission from God".

And yes, I am exaggerating on purpose. Nuance and reason are adult, Canadian traits that I want in our members of Parliament.

"La raison avant la passion." :judge:

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: dennilfloss
From a Canadian politics forum:

Bourque posted that conservative talk-show host Lowell Green of Ottawa radio station CFRA has reported that "If coalition forms gvt, Tory MPs may resign en masse ..." While I don't fully trust the quote, I do find the idea interesting.

So what would happen if 143 MPs resigned en masse? While the opposition could just shrug and call for by-elections, would they still have the 'moral authority' to govern in such an event? It certainly would be an interesting proposition.

And my response:

Gee... How typical of Lowell Green. I'm surprised there are still people taking this reactionary blowhard seriously. Such a childish mass resignation would point out to an immature worldview of absolutes (black or white, right or wrong, no greys) where one should not cooperate with others who harbour differing points of view or compromise because they are on the evil side of the equation whereas "we're on a mission from God".

And yes, I am exaggerating on purpose. Nuance and reason are adult, Canadian traits that I want in our members of Parliament.

"La raison avant la passion." :judge:

Probably a hell a lot of By-Elections. I suspect that kind of action would backfire as well.

 

[Number1]

The people of Canada made it abundantly clear that they did not want a liberal government at the election and the liberals had their worst showing in history. The people that voted for the NDP ALSO indicated they did not want the liberals to govern this country. And now, what are we looking at: A take over by the Liberal made possible by the socialist and separatists!!!
I can?t believe that once again, we have to worry about the green shaft, a policy rejected by 75% of the population. Once again, we see Dion on TV praising Elisabeth May and the greens who, incidently, did not get a SINGLE seat. What does that tell us about the direction Dion wants to take us?

Will the NDP dictate our defence policy. Will the coalition pull our troops from Afghanistan before our mandate is done, giving the Taliban a moral victory and rendering the sacrifices our soldiers meaningless? Expect big cuts in defense spending to pay for their proposed 30 billions economic stimulus.
The coalition will instantly plunge Canada into a 30 billions deficit and they have not been able to tell us where the money is going . Having not seen the Conservatives economic plan and not knowing how they are going to implement their own plan, HOW CAN THEY JUSTIFY BRINGING DOWN THE GOVERNMENT OVER THE ECONOMY. If they have their way expect plenty of brown paper bags full of tax payers money for anybody having any connection with this coalition bastard.

The opposition was sitting in waiting for any excuse to bring down the government. It had noting to do with the economic update and everything to do with greed. Power at all cost Dion said recently.

I think the way forward will be to prorogue parliament next Monday. Let the government prepare and present their economic package to parliament when it resume and let the opposition approve or shoot it down on its own merits. By that time, it will be clear how the people of Canada want to progress either with the CP, the coalition or if an election is the preferred way to got.

In my mind, an election is needed. If Canadians wants a coalition , they can vote the same way they did the last time fully understanding the ramifications. Hopefully, the current crisis will wake up the people of Canada and get them out to vote this time.
The conservatives have made mistakes but it does not mean they are unfit to govern. The prospect of having the largest group of voters in the last election cut off entirely from the governing process is unacceptable. It is unacceptable to all who vote conservatives and unacceptable to many who voted for the other parties. Perhaps a new level of cooperation is possible between the government and the opposition now and I agree that the confrontational approach by the PM was a mistake.




The PM said he would not hand over the keys of power to this liberal led outrage and he will use all means necessary to prevent this outcome and that should include better cooperation with the opposition.
I fully support the PM and I will do what I can to help.
To conclude, we now have a government voted in by the people. If this coalition is allowed to govern, it will because it voted itself in.