Canada: Possible fall of government

[Number1]

Originally posted by: desy
The only poll I've seen that even comes close to supporting a coalition is the The Star and even that base is coming up about 50/50
every other media poll outlet is overwhelming against a coalition

3 to 1 against the coalition out here in the maritime.

THIS COALITION MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO GOVERN.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Number1

Originally posted by: desy
The only poll I've seen that even comes close to supporting a coalition is the The Star and even that base is coming up about 50/50
every other media poll outlet is overwhelming against a coalition

3 to 1 against the coalition out here in the maritime.

THIS COALITION MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO GOVERN.

Canadians must be getting dumber all the time.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Number1
The people of Canada made it abundantly clear that they did not want a liberal government at the election and the liberals had their worst showing in history. The people that voted for the NDP ALSO indicated they did not want the liberals to govern this country. And now, what are we looking at: A take over by the Liberal made possible by the socialist and separatists!!!
I can?t believe that once again, we have to worry about the green shaft, a policy rejected by 75% of the population. Once again, we see Dion on TV praising Elisabeth May and the greens who, incidently, did not get a SINGLE seat. What does that tell us about the direction Dion wants to take us?

Will the NDP dictate our defence policy. Will the coalition pull our troops from Afghanistan before our mandate is done, giving the Taliban a moral victory and rendering the sacrifices our soldiers meaningless? Expect big cuts in defense spending to pay for their proposed 30 billions economic stimulus.
The coalition will instantly plunge Canada into a 30 billions deficit and they have not been able to tell us where the money is going . Having not seen the Conservatives economic plan and not knowing how they are going to implement their own plan, HOW CAN THEY JUSTIFY BRINGING DOWN THE GOVERNMENT OVER THE ECONOMY. If they have their way expect plenty of brown paper bags full of tax payers money for anybody having any connection with this coalition bastard.

The opposition was sitting in waiting for any excuse to bring down the government. It had noting to do with the economic update and everything to do with greed. Power at all cost Dion said recently.

I think the way forward will be to prorogue parliament next Monday. Let the government prepare and present their economic package to parliament when it resume and let the opposition approve or shoot it down on its own merits. By that time, it will be clear how the people of Canada want to progress either with the CP, the coalition or if an election is the preferred way to got.

In my mind, an election is needed. If Canadians wants a coalition , they can vote the same way they did the last time fully understanding the ramifications. Hopefully, the current crisis will wake up the people of Canada and get them out to vote this time.
The conservatives have made mistakes but it does not mean they are unfit to govern. The prospect of having the largest group of voters in the last election cut off entirely from the governing process is unacceptable. It is unacceptable to all who vote conservatives and unacceptable to many who voted for the other parties. Perhaps a new level of cooperation is possible between the government and the opposition now and I agree that the confrontational approach by the PM was a mistake.




The PM said he would not hand over the keys of power to this liberal led outrage and he will use all means necessary to prevent this outcome and that should include better cooperation with the opposition.
I fully support the PM and I will do what I can to help.
To conclude, we now have a government voted in by the people. If this coalition is allowed to govern, it will because it voted itself in.

That Government shouldn't have made stupidity one of their first proposals in Parliament.

 

[Number1]

I watched question period today and let me tell you: it was better then watching a UFC title fight. It is CLEAR the PM will not give up without a fight. It was also clear why Dion lost the support from the Canadian people during the last election. The man got so flustered he became unintelligible. A mumbling babling stuttering fool.

Is THIS who will be our prime minister???

Please, it's not funny, THIS MAN may very well become our prime minister.

Where is my puke bucket.

edit = spelling

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Number1
The people of Canada made it abundantly clear that they did not want a liberal government at the election and the liberals had their worst showing in history. The people that voted for the NDP ALSO indicated they did not want the liberals to govern this country. And now, what are we looking at: A take over by the Liberal made possible by the socialist and separatists!!!
I can?t believe that once again, we have to worry about the green shaft, a policy rejected by 75% of the population. Once again, we see Dion on TV praising Elisabeth May and the greens who, incidently, did not get a SINGLE seat. What does that tell us about the direction Dion wants to take us?

Will the NDP dictate our defence policy. Will the coalition pull our troops from Afghanistan before our mandate is done, giving the Taliban a moral victory and rendering the sacrifices our soldiers meaningless? Expect big cuts in defense spending to pay for their proposed 30 billions economic stimulus.
The coalition will instantly plunge Canada into a 30 billions deficit and they have not been able to tell us where the money is going . Having not seen the Conservatives economic plan and not knowing how they are going to implement their own plan, HOW CAN THEY JUSTIFY BRINGING DOWN THE GOVERNMENT OVER THE ECONOMY. If they have their way expect plenty of brown paper bags full of tax payers money for anybody having any connection with this coalition bastard.

The opposition was sitting in waiting for any excuse to bring down the government. It had noting to do with the economic update and everything to do with greed. Power at all cost Dion said recently.

I think the way forward will be to prorogue parliament next Monday. Let the government prepare and present their economic package to parliament when it resume and let the opposition approve or shoot it down on its own merits. By that time, it will be clear how the people of Canada want to progress either with the CP, the coalition or if an election is the preferred way to got.

In my mind, an election is needed. If Canadians wants a coalition , they can vote the same way they did the last time fully understanding the ramifications. Hopefully, the current crisis will wake up the people of Canada and get them out to vote this time.
The conservatives have made mistakes but it does not mean they are unfit to govern. The prospect of having the largest group of voters in the last election cut off entirely from the governing process is unacceptable. It is unacceptable to all who vote conservatives and unacceptable to many who voted for the other parties. Perhaps a new level of cooperation is possible between the government and the opposition now and I agree that the confrontational approach by the PM was a mistake.




The PM said he would not hand over the keys of power to this liberal led outrage and he will use all means necessary to prevent this outcome and that should include better cooperation with the opposition.
I fully support the PM and I will do what I can to help.
To conclude, we now have a government voted in by the people. If this coalition is allowed to govern, it will because it voted itself in.

That Government shouldn't have made stupidity one of their first proposals in Parliament.

Call an election, let the voters decide.

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Number1

Originally posted by: desy
The only poll I've seen that even comes close to supporting a coalition is the The Star and even that base is coming up about 50/50
every other media poll outlet is overwhelming against a coalition

3 to 1 against the coalition out here in the maritime.

THIS COALITION MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO GOVERN.

Canadians must be getting dumber all the time.

Typical elitist "liberal"thinking. You disagree with me therefor you are stupid!

edit removed insulting comment

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Number1

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Number1

Originally posted by: desy
The only poll I've seen that even comes close to supporting a coalition is the The Star and even that base is coming up about 50/50
every other media poll outlet is overwhelming against a coalition

3 to 1 against the coalition out here in the maritime.

THIS COALITION MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO GOVERN.

Canadians must be getting dumber all the time.

Typical elitist "liberal"thinking. You disagree with me therefor you are stupid!

edit removed insulting comment

Not at all - sorry, I missed the comment while it was there.

The trouble is I can't understand why Harper gets a pass from so many folks, for everything he does. He has never respected the rules or traditions of Parliament; hell, he doesn't even respect his own rules!

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Number1
Call an election, let the voters decide.

The voters already did decide, and Harper chose to ignore them and play politics because the Opposition is between leaders. He thought he could strong-arm to get whatever he wanted, and he's been called on it. Sometimes when you try to play strong with a weak hand, you get burned.

 

[dennilfloss]

What is elitist in wishing that people had a reasonable understanding of Westminster parliamentarism before they utter nonsensical statements?

http://www.nationmaster.com/en...dia/Westminster-System

I mean, it's not like the principles, rules and traditions are new, they harken back to The Magna Carta.

Listening to some of the moronic calls on radio today, one would think we like in a republic.

 

[dennilfloss]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

The voters already did decide...

Correct. They decided on who would represent their local riding in the House of Commons. What government emerges from this House of Commons is an internal matter. Some people say this makes their vote meaningless. Well, their vote does not have less (or more) meaning than it has had since Confederation.


Of course, the misleading and negative CPC ads that started today do nothing to educate the populace.

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: dennilfloss

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

The voters already did decide...

Correct. They decided on who would represent their local riding in the House of Commons. What government emerges from this House of Commons is an internal matter. Some people say this makes their vote meaningless. Well, their vote does not have less (or more) meaning than it has had since Confederation.


Of course, the misleading and negative CPC ads that started today do nothing to educate the populace.

And of course, your liberals never ever slant the truth to fit their own agenda. During the election Dion said he would never be part of a coalition.
From what I hear in the media, people across the country are rejecting this coalition. I bet a lot of them voted lieberal believing Mr Dion and never expecting him to be in bed with the NDP and the Bloc.

So before feinting outrage at the political tactics of you opponent, why don't you look at what your own party is doing.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Number1

Originally posted by: dennilfloss

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

The voters already did decide...

Correct. They decided on who would represent their local riding in the House of Commons. What government emerges from this House of Commons is an internal matter. Some people say this makes their vote meaningless. Well, their vote does not have less (or more) meaning than it has had since Confederation.


Of course, the misleading and negative CPC ads that started today do nothing to educate the populace.

And of course, your liberals never ever slant the truth to fit their own agenda. During the election Dion said he would never be part of a coalition.
From what I hear in the media, people across the country are rejecting this coalition. I bet a lot of them voted lieberal believing Mr Dion and never expecting him to be in bed with the NDP and the Bloc.

So before feinting outrage at the political tactics of you opponent, why don't you look at what your own party is doing.

They aren't my party.

In fact, replace Harper and the brain-trust with something closer to the old PC party, and they would usually get my vote.

 

[Number1]

The coalition is coming so let see what the NDP has in mind for Canada.

The socialist agenda:

- Slash greenhouse gas emissions by 80 per cent below 1990 levels by 2050

- Raise $2.5-billion a year in carbon auctions and reinvest the money in public transit and other green initiatives

- Halt new tar sands development until carbon emissions are capped and protected areas set aside

- Meet 35 per cent of Canada's energy needs by 2020 with renewable energy, including biomass, wind power and renewable fuels

- $600-million for industry innovation fund to help businesses reduce energy use

- New clean water act that includes ban on fresh water exports, minimum of secondary water treatment in municipalities, and a $10-million safe water fund to address issues of emerging pollutants

- Reestablish national minimum wage at $10 an hour and index it to inflation

- $750-million a year job fund to train workers for "green-collar" jobs, which includes installing and maintaining energy efficient and renewable energy technology

- Appoint job protection commissioner to probe major layoffs and shutdowns

- Lower the small business tax rate to 10 per cent from 11 per cent

- Outlaw use of replacement workers in strikes or lockouts

- A new monthly cheque of up to $400 that would replace three existing child benefits, including the Conservatives' $100-a-month cheque. A family with two children and an income of $75,000 would take in an extra $2,140 a year

- Eliminate poverty in Canada by 2020 by setting firm targets, establishing a poverty elimination office within HRDC, and economic measures such as national minimum wage and new child benefit
- National child care program calling for 150,000 new child care spaces in the first year, growing to 220,000 spaces annually in the fourth year

- $1-billion national home-care program for seniors
$1-billion a year on a new catastrophic drug plan

- $200-million a year to increase training spaces and expand Canada's medical schools by 50 per cent

- Establish mental health crisis response centres

- Dedicate one per cent of Health Canada budget to physical fitness and amateur sports promotion

- $1,000-a-year grant to all undergraduate or equivalent students who qualify for student loans

- Broaden eligibility for EI benefits to Canadians engaged in full-time training and retraining programs

- $4-billion for transit over four years

- Invest one cent of GST in infrastructure by 2011

- Dedicate one per cent of federal spending to affordable housing within 10 years

- Ban ATM fees for institutions regulated under the Bank Act

- Limit interest rates and fees by "fringe banks," including on pay day loans, tax refund advances and cheque cashing

- Cap interest rates on credit card to 5 percentage points over prime

- Mandatory labelling of farmed fish, genetically engineered food

- Enable cities and provinces to ban handguns

- 2,500 new police officer positions

- Federally funded permanent youth gang diversion strategy

- Set national standards for use of Tasers

- Repeal use of security certificates

Source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com.../BNStory/politics/home

I almost forgot.

Defense

-the immediate and unconditional surrender and retreat of all Canadian forces from Afghanistan.

-more social programs with the "peace dividends" realized with the withdrawal of our forces from Afghanistan.


Once they are done, you won't recognize the country if we still have a country. I mean come on. Read these and ask yourself, is this what we really want for Canada?

NO and we overwhelmingly votes against those policies.

But now its all back on thanks to the three stooges.

Not to worry, will just have to deal with them come election time if we still have a country by then.

What a bunch.

 

[sandorski]

....and?

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Number1

Originally posted by: dennilfloss

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

The voters already did decide...

Correct. They decided on who would represent their local riding in the House of Commons. What government emerges from this House of Commons is an internal matter. Some people say this makes their vote meaningless. Well, their vote does not have less (or more) meaning than it has had since Confederation.


Of course, the misleading and negative CPC ads that started today do nothing to educate the populace.

And of course, your liberals never ever slant the truth to fit their own agenda. During the election Dion said he would never be part of a coalition.
From what I hear in the media, people across the country are rejecting this coalition. I bet a lot of them voted lieberal believing Mr Dion and never expecting him to be in bed with the NDP and the Bloc.

So before feinting outrage at the political tactics of you opponent, why don't you look at what your own party is doing.

They aren't my party.

In fact, replace Harper and the brain-trust with something closer to the old PC party, and they would usually get my vote.

I was replying to dennilfloss.

 

[imported_Champ]

some of what you wrote are good and some would not work...although it cannot all be done at once without devaluing our dollar or increasing taxes...i do believe that the government should look at doing alot of this...and a large amount would not actually cost much money to the government

we actually discussed this in my poli class today...I believe we will be going to the polls by February with either a conservative or cololition gov't

 

[dennilfloss]

I wish more of the people interviewed on television or phoning in on radio talk shows would be pointed out that

The fact remains that we elected people in 308 regional elections. The party that won the most seats in that election had the first right to attempt to form government, not the only right. There is now a group of elected representatives, legally elected in their ridings that have pointed out that should the government fall, there is no need to send Canadians to the polls for the second time in four months.

That is their constitutional right. Just because it hasn't happened in almost 100 years federally, and nearly 25 years provincially (recall the Liberal/NDP coalition government in Ontario in 1985-86) doesn't mean it shouldn't happen now.

 

[little elvis]

I'm pissed at the lot of them. Pissed at the Conservatives for introducing proposals that they KNEW would be confrontational. Harper cements his reputation of being nothing but an arrogant ass. There was NO need to push these bills through at this time, especially with dark cloud of a recession hanging over all of us. This flies in the face of his statements after the election about working with the opposition parties to make this session of Parliament work....

I'm pissed at the opposition for taking as far as they have, essentially will be without a functioning Parliament until the end of January 2009 (after the Consveratives proage Parliament). And who knows what happens after that.

All this against the backdrop of a weakening economy. Instead of focusing on what's important, we get this crap.

 

[Firebot]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Number1

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Number1

Originally posted by: desy
The only poll I've seen that even comes close to supporting a coalition is the The Star and even that base is coming up about 50/50
every other media poll outlet is overwhelming against a coalition

3 to 1 against the coalition out here in the maritime.

THIS COALITION MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO GOVERN.

Canadians must be getting dumber all the time.

Typical elitist "liberal"thinking. You disagree with me therefor you are stupid!

edit removed insulting comment

Not at all - sorry, I missed the comment while it was there.

The trouble is I can't understand why Harper gets a pass from so many folks, for everything he does. He has never respected the rules or traditions of Parliament; hell, he doesn't even respect his own rules!

He doesn't get a pass from me. His partisan move was a very poorly calculated jab at the other parties at a time when they should be working on non-partisan measures.

That said, two wrongs don't make a right, and Dion / Layton creating a political coup d'etat while being supported by the Bloc Quebecois is not what Canadians want. Layton will absolutely devestate the Canadian economy with his love of the auto industry and unions. Dion is a lameduck leader who can't even lead his own party and may or may not be there in 6 months. Duceppe wants to boost Quebec at Canada's expense and will have the ultimate strangehold on the parliament as the coalition can only go as far as the Bloc Quebecois will allow it.

The lust for power is too strong to the point where they are blind at the chimera that is being created.

 

[SickBeast]

IMO the Governor General should just lock everyone in the house for 4 years and force them to govern as a minority. We voted them in as such, and regardless of who works together, they should do it.

This will result in a moderate government, as anything extreme will not meet the consensus of another party.

Canadian opinion will not change overnight. Another election will only result in another minority government.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Number1
The coalition is coming so let see what the NDP has in mind for Canada.

The socialist agenda:

- Slash greenhouse gas emissions by 80 per cent below 1990 levels by 2050

- Raise $2.5-billion a year in carbon auctions and reinvest the money in public transit and other green initiatives

- Halt new tar sands development until carbon emissions are capped and protected areas set aside

- Meet 35 per cent of Canada's energy needs by 2020 with renewable energy, including biomass, wind power and renewable fuels

- $600-million for industry innovation fund to help businesses reduce energy use

- New clean water act that includes ban on fresh water exports, minimum of secondary water treatment in municipalities, and a $10-million safe water fund to address issues of emerging pollutants

- Reestablish national minimum wage at $10 an hour and index it to inflation

- $750-million a year job fund to train workers for "green-collar" jobs, which includes installing and maintaining energy efficient and renewable energy technology

- Appoint job protection commissioner to probe major layoffs and shutdowns

- Lower the small business tax rate to 10 per cent from 11 per cent

- Outlaw use of replacement workers in strikes or lockouts

- A new monthly cheque of up to $400 that would replace three existing child benefits, including the Conservatives' $100-a-month cheque. A family with two children and an income of $75,000 would take in an extra $2,140 a year

- Eliminate poverty in Canada by 2020 by setting firm targets, establishing a poverty elimination office within HRDC, and economic measures such as national minimum wage and new child benefit
- National child care program calling for 150,000 new child care spaces in the first year, growing to 220,000 spaces annually in the fourth year

- $1-billion national home-care program for seniors
$1-billion a year on a new catastrophic drug plan

- $200-million a year to increase training spaces and expand Canada's medical schools by 50 per cent

- Establish mental health crisis response centres

- Dedicate one per cent of Health Canada budget to physical fitness and amateur sports promotion

- $1,000-a-year grant to all undergraduate or equivalent students who qualify for student loans

- Broaden eligibility for EI benefits to Canadians engaged in full-time training and retraining programs

- $4-billion for transit over four years

- Invest one cent of GST in infrastructure by 2011

- Dedicate one per cent of federal spending to affordable housing within 10 years

- Ban ATM fees for institutions regulated under the Bank Act

- Limit interest rates and fees by "fringe banks," including on pay day loans, tax refund advances and cheque cashing

- Cap interest rates on credit card to 5 percentage points over prime

- Mandatory labelling of farmed fish, genetically engineered food

- Enable cities and provinces to ban handguns

- 2,500 new police officer positions

- Federally funded permanent youth gang diversion strategy

- Set national standards for use of Tasers

- Repeal use of security certificates

Source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com.../BNStory/politics/home

I almost forgot.

Defense

-the immediate and unconditional surrender and retreat of all Canadian forces from Afghanistan.

-more social programs with the "peace dividends" realized with the withdrawal of our forces from Afghanistan.


Once they are done, you won't recognize the country if we still have a country. I mean come on. Read these and ask yourself, is this what we really want for Canada?

NO and we overwhelmingly votes against those policies.

But now its all back on thanks to the three stooges.

Not to worry, will just have to deal with them come election time if we still have a country by then.

What a bunch.

So, other than a cut n run from Afghanistan, which of these policies is entirely ridiculous and unpalatable?

 

[Number1]

I read this from the comment section on the G&M by a bloc voter:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com...5401/WBStory/WBSteele/

"JP Dumont from Canada writes: I've been a Bloc supporter for many, many years.
I have been wondering over the past few years what the reasoning was for remaining a federal party - what was being accomplished in Ottawa by the Bloc? Separatism seems to be on the backburner with no signs of it coming to the fore any time soon.
I couldn't help to think that wouldn't Bloc resources be better used to the work within the PQ and fight for Quebec and sovereignty IN Quebec?
Now I feel that we have a strong voice in Ottawa and can truly get what's best for Quebec. The Bloc will have the final say on any legislation put forth, and if it's not in the interest of Quebec, then it does not go. The Liberals and NDP must appease the Bloc to make any movement whatsoever in Ottawa.
This coalition is not what the Bloc is there for, but if it can ensure that Quebec will come first, then it is a good thing."

This exemplifies part of what is wrong for this coalition.
Is a government that puts the interest of one province above all others good for Canada. I think not.

 

[dennilfloss]

Harper will ask for prorogation. The man has no shame.:frown:

Here's an excellent read on the role of the Governor General in this matter.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story...-governor-general.html

 

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
:thumbsup: for title hyperbole

Where's the hyperbole now?

 

[dennilfloss]

Originally posted by: silverpig

Where's the hyperbole now?

Inside the boot about to go up Harper's ass!