Canada: Possible fall of government

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Firebot
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=1044554

Rae, Ignatieff call for expedited leadership race
Glenn Johnson and Bradley Bouzane, Canwest News Service
Published: Sunday, December 07, 2008

OTTAWA -- Liberal leadership candidates Michael Ignatieff and Bob Rae stepped up the pressure on Stephane Dion Sunday to step aside before Parliament resumes next month.

"We need to have a new leader in place by then," Rae told CTV's Question Period. "We need to have the leadership race moved up."

The call was echoed by leadership rival Ignatieff, who also appeared on the program.

"Mr. Dion has to consider his options," said Ignatieff. "It would be appropriate to have a permanent leader in place" by the vote in January.

"But I'm in the race, I don't make the rules."

Rae suggested that the leadership candidates have the "chance to talk to the membership of the party in an accelerated way," have some debates and see the party membership vote for a new leader by "the middle or third week of January."

The comments from Rae and Ignatieff come a day after former Liberal deputy prime minister John Manley called on the party to have a new leader in place before Christmas.

"As a Liberal, I believe the first step for my party is to replace Stephane Dion as leader with someone whose first job is to rebuild the Liberal party, rather than leading a coalition with the NDP," Manley wrote in an opinion piece in the Globe and Mail.

The Liberals are falling apart with a headless leader, and we Canadians are to believe that Dion can lead a coalition involving him, the NDP who were caught stating they would force a coalition before the crisis happened, and a seperatist group? He can't even lead his own party.

The hate that people have for Harper is so dillusional they don't even understand how bad the alternative is.

meh. There's plenty wrong with the Coalition, but Harper has been just asking for this to happen. Perhaps he should stop?

 

[Firebot]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Firebot
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=1044554

Rae, Ignatieff call for expedited leadership race
Glenn Johnson and Bradley Bouzane, Canwest News Service
Published: Sunday, December 07, 2008

OTTAWA -- Liberal leadership candidates Michael Ignatieff and Bob Rae stepped up the pressure on Stephane Dion Sunday to step aside before Parliament resumes next month.

"We need to have a new leader in place by then," Rae told CTV's Question Period. "We need to have the leadership race moved up."

The call was echoed by leadership rival Ignatieff, who also appeared on the program.

"Mr. Dion has to consider his options," said Ignatieff. "It would be appropriate to have a permanent leader in place" by the vote in January.

"But I'm in the race, I don't make the rules."

Rae suggested that the leadership candidates have the "chance to talk to the membership of the party in an accelerated way," have some debates and see the party membership vote for a new leader by "the middle or third week of January."

The comments from Rae and Ignatieff come a day after former Liberal deputy prime minister John Manley called on the party to have a new leader in place before Christmas.

"As a Liberal, I believe the first step for my party is to replace Stephane Dion as leader with someone whose first job is to rebuild the Liberal party, rather than leading a coalition with the NDP," Manley wrote in an opinion piece in the Globe and Mail.

The Liberals are falling apart with a headless leader, and we Canadians are to believe that Dion can lead a coalition involving him, the NDP who were caught stating they would force a coalition before the crisis happened, and a seperatist group? He can't even lead his own party.

The hate that people have for Harper is so dillusional they don't even understand how bad the alternative is.

meh. There's plenty wrong with the Coalition, but Harper has been just asking for this to happen. Perhaps he should stop?

Sure he should stop, and there's no question he left an opening for this coalition to happen. He's still by far the best choice for Canadians to run the country and it shows by recent polls who show a public scared of the alternative being offered. A badly broken party, a party who planned to bring down the government no matter what, and a party working to break the country apart is not the answer.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Firebot

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Firebot
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=1044554

Rae, Ignatieff call for expedited leadership race
Glenn Johnson and Bradley Bouzane, Canwest News Service
Published: Sunday, December 07, 2008

OTTAWA -- Liberal leadership candidates Michael Ignatieff and Bob Rae stepped up the pressure on Stephane Dion Sunday to step aside before Parliament resumes next month.

"We need to have a new leader in place by then," Rae told CTV's Question Period. "We need to have the leadership race moved up."

The call was echoed by leadership rival Ignatieff, who also appeared on the program.

"Mr. Dion has to consider his options," said Ignatieff. "It would be appropriate to have a permanent leader in place" by the vote in January.

"But I'm in the race, I don't make the rules."

Rae suggested that the leadership candidates have the "chance to talk to the membership of the party in an accelerated way," have some debates and see the party membership vote for a new leader by "the middle or third week of January."

The comments from Rae and Ignatieff come a day after former Liberal deputy prime minister John Manley called on the party to have a new leader in place before Christmas.

"As a Liberal, I believe the first step for my party is to replace Stephane Dion as leader with someone whose first job is to rebuild the Liberal party, rather than leading a coalition with the NDP," Manley wrote in an opinion piece in the Globe and Mail.

The Liberals are falling apart with a headless leader, and we Canadians are to believe that Dion can lead a coalition involving him, the NDP who were caught stating they would force a coalition before the crisis happened, and a seperatist group? He can't even lead his own party.

The hate that people have for Harper is so dillusional they don't even understand how bad the alternative is.

meh. There's plenty wrong with the Coalition, but Harper has been just asking for this to happen. Perhaps he should stop?

Sure he should stop, and there's no question he left an opening for this coalition to happen. He's still by far the best choice for Canadians to run the country and it shows by recent polls who show a public scared of the alternative being offered. A badly broken party, a party who planned to bring down the government no matter what, and a party working to break the country apart is not the answer.

It is the answer, if Harper can't mend some fences with the Opposition. Your criticisms are mostly Strawmen.

 

[Firebot]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Firebot

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Firebot
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=1044554

Rae, Ignatieff call for expedited leadership race
Glenn Johnson and Bradley Bouzane, Canwest News Service
Published: Sunday, December 07, 2008

OTTAWA -- Liberal leadership candidates Michael Ignatieff and Bob Rae stepped up the pressure on Stephane Dion Sunday to step aside before Parliament resumes next month.

"We need to have a new leader in place by then," Rae told CTV's Question Period. "We need to have the leadership race moved up."

The call was echoed by leadership rival Ignatieff, who also appeared on the program.

"Mr. Dion has to consider his options," said Ignatieff. "It would be appropriate to have a permanent leader in place" by the vote in January.

"But I'm in the race, I don't make the rules."

Rae suggested that the leadership candidates have the "chance to talk to the membership of the party in an accelerated way," have some debates and see the party membership vote for a new leader by "the middle or third week of January."

The comments from Rae and Ignatieff come a day after former Liberal deputy prime minister John Manley called on the party to have a new leader in place before Christmas.

"As a Liberal, I believe the first step for my party is to replace Stephane Dion as leader with someone whose first job is to rebuild the Liberal party, rather than leading a coalition with the NDP," Manley wrote in an opinion piece in the Globe and Mail.

The Liberals are falling apart with a headless leader, and we Canadians are to believe that Dion can lead a coalition involving him, the NDP who were caught stating they would force a coalition before the crisis happened, and a seperatist group? He can't even lead his own party.

The hate that people have for Harper is so dillusional they don't even understand how bad the alternative is.

meh. There's plenty wrong with the Coalition, but Harper has been just asking for this to happen. Perhaps he should stop?

Sure he should stop, and there's no question he left an opening for this coalition to happen. He's still by far the best choice for Canadians to run the country and it shows by recent polls who show a public scared of the alternative being offered. A badly broken party, a party who planned to bring down the government no matter what, and a party working to break the country apart is not the answer.

It is the answer, if Harper can't mend some fences with the Opposition. Your criticisms are mostly Strawmen.

Dion can't mend some fences with his own party with members calling for his head, and you expect him to run a coalition of 2 parties and 1 supporting party with huge ideological differences. That's not a strawman, that's embarassing.

 

[SickBeast]

I heard on the radio today that Dion will be stepping down this Wednesday, making way for either Rae or Ignatief.

Also, there was a constitutional lawyer on and he said that it would not follow "constitutional precedent" for the Governor General to allow the coalition to take power.

Essentially he said that since the GG is accountable to noone, she is supposed to listen to the PM and do as he suggests, so long as it is within reason and the country is not in a state of crisis.

Further, someone suggested that the GG has most likely told Harper that she would prorogue the parliament with the condition that she will instate the coalition if Harper can't find a way to engage the other parties.

I think we need a new election in light of all that has happened. Public opinion has most likely shifted and something will happen if they make us vote again.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Firebot

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Firebot

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Firebot
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=1044554

Rae, Ignatieff call for expedited leadership race
Glenn Johnson and Bradley Bouzane, Canwest News Service
Published: Sunday, December 07, 2008

OTTAWA -- Liberal leadership candidates Michael Ignatieff and Bob Rae stepped up the pressure on Stephane Dion Sunday to step aside before Parliament resumes next month.

"We need to have a new leader in place by then," Rae told CTV's Question Period. "We need to have the leadership race moved up."

The call was echoed by leadership rival Ignatieff, who also appeared on the program.

"Mr. Dion has to consider his options," said Ignatieff. "It would be appropriate to have a permanent leader in place" by the vote in January.

"But I'm in the race, I don't make the rules."

Rae suggested that the leadership candidates have the "chance to talk to the membership of the party in an accelerated way," have some debates and see the party membership vote for a new leader by "the middle or third week of January."

The comments from Rae and Ignatieff come a day after former Liberal deputy prime minister John Manley called on the party to have a new leader in place before Christmas.

"As a Liberal, I believe the first step for my party is to replace Stephane Dion as leader with someone whose first job is to rebuild the Liberal party, rather than leading a coalition with the NDP," Manley wrote in an opinion piece in the Globe and Mail.

The Liberals are falling apart with a headless leader, and we Canadians are to believe that Dion can lead a coalition involving him, the NDP who were caught stating they would force a coalition before the crisis happened, and a seperatist group? He can't even lead his own party.

The hate that people have for Harper is so dillusional they don't even understand how bad the alternative is.

meh. There's plenty wrong with the Coalition, but Harper has been just asking for this to happen. Perhaps he should stop?

Sure he should stop, and there's no question he left an opening for this coalition to happen. He's still by far the best choice for Canadians to run the country and it shows by recent polls who show a public scared of the alternative being offered. A badly broken party, a party who planned to bring down the government no matter what, and a party working to break the country apart is not the answer.

It is the answer, if Harper can't mend some fences with the Opposition. Your criticisms are mostly Strawmen.

Dion can't mend some fences with his own party with members calling for his head, and you expect him to run a coalition of 2 parties and 1 supporting party with huge ideological differences. That's not a strawman, that's embarassing.

Nah, that's just not Ideal. Not sure how "embarrassment" matters.

 

[SickBeast]

You guys are arguing over old news.

Dion is stepping down almost immediately. They say Ignatief is poised to take his place.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
You guys are arguing over old news.

Dion is stepping down almost immediately. They say Ignatief is poised to take his place.

They should have a Convention and make it official. Throwing him in there might work against him in the longrun. getting rid of Dion is a good idea though.

 

[Number1]

Install Iggy now and confirm him in May is the best possible course of action for the liberals. Finally a move that makes sense.

 

[Number1]

LOL Dion booted out of the leadership position by his own troops on the date he thought he would become Prime Minister. How ironic.


Booted out.

 

[dennilfloss]

So often when I read your posts, I feel like having a Number 2.

 

[desy]

TG Dion is gone, lets see if Ignatief has learned anything in the few yrs he's been an MP.
He said lots of stupid stuff at the start of his leadship first go

I'm still dead set against a coalition with Bloc support, lets have an ELECTION!

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: dennilfloss
So often when I read your posts, I feel like having a Number 2.

:laugh:

Never mind the personal attack, I think the liberals are FINALLY coming to their senses.
Don't you think it's a good thing for your troops?

 

[dennilfloss]

I believe in a strong central government and I wanted Iggy as party leader during the last convention, so I'm happy (he reminds me of a slightly more centrist Trudeau). While he was in favour of the Iraq war after having been fed the same misinformation as Hillary and the rest of us, he is far from a neocon.

 

[dennilfloss]

Nevermind.

 

[Number1]

Rae bows out of Liberal race

Good and selfless act from Bob.

Good for the Liberals. Iggy is certainly a lot more palatable to a lot more Canadians then Rae ever was.

Another nail in the "coalition's" coffin.

Let see if Iggy can galvanize his troops and wow Canadians.

We're all watching.

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: dennilfloss
I believe in a strong central government and I wanted Iggy as party leader during the last convention, so I'm happy (he reminds me of a slightly more centrist Trudeau). While he was in favour of the Iraq war after having been fed the same misinformation as Hillary and the rest of us, he is far from a neocon.

Let me get this right.

Its OK for a Liberal leader to support the Iraq war but it is not OK for a Conservative leader to do so?

Your partisan rhetoric make me laugh.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Number1

Originally posted by: dennilfloss
I believe in a strong central government and I wanted Iggy as party leader during the last convention, so I'm happy (he reminds me of a slightly more centrist Trudeau). While he was in favour of the Iraq war after having been fed the same misinformation as Hillary and the rest of us, he is far from a neocon.

Let me get this right.

Its OK for a Liberal leader to support the Iraq war but it is not OK for a Conservative leader to do so?

Your partisan rhetoric make me laugh.

Did he say that somewhere?

 

[SickBeast]

If Ignatief could not see through the Iraq war, then I do not want him running our country.

Further, he's practically an American.

If I had to choose, I would probably take Harper over him, or else vote NDP.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
If Ignatief could not see through the Iraq war, then I do not want him running our country.

Further, he's practically an American.

If I had to choose, I would probably take Harper over him, or else vote NDP.

Harper's the same. Looks like a push to me given your criteria.

Hell, Dion is likely the perfect candidate for you! :laugh:

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: SickBeast
If Ignatief could not see through the Iraq war, then I do not want him running our country.

Further, he's practically an American.

If I had to choose, I would probably take Harper over him, or else vote NDP.

Harper's the same. Looks like a push to me given your criteria.

Hell, Dion is likely the perfect candidate for you! :laugh:

You know what, it doesn't even matter to me seeing as I will more than likely vote Green again in another vote.

How is Harper American?

I do see benefit to a Liberal government during an economic downturn. They are known for job creation and I think it would be good for the economy right now.

That said, I don't see a very large difference at all between Harper and Ignatief. I would take Layton over either of them, and I like I said, I think the Greens are the best.

 

[imported_Lothar]

Stephen Harper should call an early election to capitalize on his increased popularity to get him a majority ASAP.

The Liberals forming a coalition with the NDP is akin to the Conservatives forming a coalition with the Greens.

 

[speg]

Question. Would proportional voting have saved us from this problem?

Bring on proportional voting!

 

[Firebot]

Originally posted by: speg
Question. Would proportional voting have saved us from this problem?

Bring on proportional voting!

Proportional voting would have meant a coalition between the NDP - Liberals - Green Party and created an unprecendented socialist frankenstein the world is not ready for.

No thanks.

 

[Toonces]

Originally posted by: Firebot

Originally posted by: speg
Question. Would proportional voting have saved us from this problem?

Bring on proportional voting!

Proportional voting would have meant a coalition between the NDP - Liberals - Green Party and created an unprecendented socialist frankenstein the world is not ready for.

No thanks.

In a strict implementation of a Proportional Representative system, yes they're be a coalition among those parties. Fortunately, most political scientists and the politicians who listen to them aren't dumb enough to ever use direct PR for state-order elections.

You'll most likely see a hybridized or threshold form of PR taking the most fringe elements out of government. Problem is that parliamentary systems are set up to promote majority governments and without a fundamental change to the de facto power balance between the House and Senate we won't be seeing PR for Canadian elections any time in the near future.