Canada: Possible fall of government

libs0n

Member
May 16, 2005
197
0
76
An interesting day in the House of Commons. A few years ago, the funding of elections was changed to forbid the contributions of corporations and unions to political parties. To maintain adequate funding, public financing was introduced, to the tune of 1.95 per vote received in the most recent election, distributed yearly. This sum amounted to about 30 million a year.

An alternate method of getting funds remained open, that of personal contributions to a party, although the max funding limit was lowered to $1000 per person by the incoming Conservative administration a few years back. This contribution is also tax deductible.

Of all the parties, the Conservatives were the most successful at raising money through personal contributions to the party, with the NDP, the Liberals, the Bloc Quebecois and the Greens trailing by significant margins.

Today, as their first act since winning a minority government in the October election, the Conservatives proposed the elimination of public election financing, leaving only personal contributions as a means to raise monies. This elimination is positioned as belt-tightening, as well as the popularism of getting political parties off the public dole. Since they received the most votes, they argued, they would be the most impacted by the money not available. However, the Conservatives would have the advantage in the post-elimination financial reality afterward, as I mentioned above.

Now, this did not go over well with the opposition parties, and they have all threatened to vote against the motion when it comes up. Since they do not have a majority in the House of Commons, the Conservatives need one of the other parties to vote with them to pass legislation. The Conservatives have made this matter a motion of confidence, which means, if it does fail, then that would be the fall of the government.

The consequence would either be a new election, or the unique development of the opposition party being asked to form government with the support of the other parties. Either way, exciting stuff.

My analysis:

For one, I support the public financing of elections, therefore I disagree with the motion's very basis. I believe that a healthy democracy requires healthy competition, and I believe this measure was meant as a cheap political move to weaken that opposition if it was successfully passed.

However, regardless of the validity of the motion, this was not the right time to implement it. The sums reallocated are minor in relation to total government expenditures. This measure was bound to be contentious and could have been held until later in the Conservative's term, and instead the focus could have been on the worsening economic situation. To introduce it as the very first motion of a new government was a declaration of war intended to achieve political ends.

Those ends were the purposeful fall of government in an attempt to win a majority in the subsequent election. As a motivating factor, there is also the transfer of responsibility to another party for the upcoming worsened economic situation if indeed the opposition parties formed government, although I consider that less likely and only of side benefit if it occurred.

I'd also like to point out that none of this was mentioned by the Conservatives as being part of their platform in the recent election campaign, not the least to warrant it being the priority once they achieved governance. They had no mandate for this. Ironically, after they won the election, the Conservatives signaled that they would take a less confrontational tone in government than they had previously.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com.../BNStory/politics/home

edit:

more recent article on the subject:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com...tics1127/BNStory/Front
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,709
11
81
Geez, a confidence motion already? I'm thinking the Conservatives will be pushing it so the government will fail and they can ask for a majority mandate.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
The Liberal party under the leadership of Jean Chretien proposed the funding reform eliminating donations from Corporations, Unions and Special Interests.
At the time the max funding was set at $3000, the conservatives have lowered that amount to $1000.

Given the number of donors to the Conservative party are much higher than the Liberals and given Conservative voters are more affluent, the reduction in funding limit proposed by the Conservatives likely hurt themselves more than anything.

I don't see an issue here, every party is held to the same rules, it's not as if donation limits are excessive; $1000 is a very reasonable amount. The only reason this is an issue is because the Liberals are suffering and is unable to rally their supports, alienated many people, and elected a terrible leader. Combine that with a moderate, pragmatic and populist Conservative party in power and it's no wonder the Liberals are having a tough time.

The NDP has far fewer voters yet collect far more donations than the Liberal party...your issue isn't with the federal spending cuts but you've probably maxed out your Liberal donations and are frustrated the rest of Canada's voters don't agree with you and are supporting other parties.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,130
5,658
126
This wasn't even mentioned during the Campaign, along with the "necessity" of Deficits. If they push this through, I'll Vote tomorrow to throw the fuckers out. This is a crass attempt to try and take advantage of an Opponents current weak financial position and nothing else.
 

sammyunltd

Senior member
Jul 31, 2004
717
0
0
Originally posted by: sandorski
This wasn't even mentioned during the Campaign, along with the "necessity" of Deficits. If they push this through, I'll Vote tomorrow to throw the fuckers out. This is a crass attempt to try and take advantage of an Opponents current weak financial position and nothing else.

Quit being a hack, and see this motion as a way to avoid a budget deficit. Think about your country's interest before your own party's interest.

Furthermore, your party would not have LOST seats if it had chosen a more competent leader *cough* Ignatieff *cough*, instead of Dion the treehugger.
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
81
Originally posted by: sammyunltd
Originally posted by: sandorski
This wasn't even mentioned during the Campaign, along with the "necessity" of Deficits. If they push this through, I'll Vote tomorrow to throw the fuckers out. This is a crass attempt to try and take advantage of an Opponents current weak financial position and nothing else.

Quit being a hack, and see this motion as a way to avoid a budget deficit. Think about your country's interest before your own party's interest.

Furthermore, your party would not have LOST seats if it had chosen a more competent leader *cough* Ignatieff *cough*, instead of Dion the treehugger.

yeah, Canada is $30million from a balanced budget.
If we were going to be that close, we wouldn't even be talking about deficits.

As far as the election financing motion goes, it's a naked powerplay and it should blow up in Harper's face.
 

Firebot

Golden Member
Jul 10, 2005
1,476
2
0
While I like cutting costs and during normal times this would be a great political move, this isn't the time for political strong-arming. The cuts should be partisan neutral.
 

imported_Imp

Diamond Member
Dec 20, 2005
9,148
0
0
Effing joke if they do. I voted at the last one, screw them if they do it again. It'll probably just give the conservatives a majority.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,130
5,658
126
Originally posted by: sammyunltd
Originally posted by: sandorski
This wasn't even mentioned during the Campaign, along with the "necessity" of Deficits. If they push this through, I'll Vote tomorrow to throw the fuckers out. This is a crass attempt to try and take advantage of an Opponents current weak financial position and nothing else.

Quit being a hack, and see this motion as a way to avoid a budget deficit. Think about your country's interest before your own party's interest.

Furthermore, your party would not have LOST seats if it had chosen a more competent leader *cough* Ignatieff *cough*, instead of Dion the treehugger.

I'm not a member of any Party. This has nothing to do with cutting costs. Don't be naive.
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
Sure, bring down the government and cost the taxpayers $300 million on a new election. That's ten years worth of this silly cost reduction.

In fact, that would be $600 million spent by the Conservatives on elections, effectively.

IMO the Liberals, NDP, and Bloc (plus maybe even the Greens) should gang up and form a coalition government. They share a large core value base.
 

imported_Champ

Golden Member
Mar 25, 2008
1,608
0
0
well its going to pass...it has to pass because there is nothing else to do about it...the Canadian people will be peeved if we have to vote again and Michelle will probably not grant another election so it passes or were in uncharted water

although if it doesn't pass I will finally be 18 and be able to vote
 

dennilfloss

Past Lifer 1957-2014 In Memoriam
Oct 21, 1999
30,549
12
0
dennilfloss.blogspot.com
The crass vindictiveness of the Reform & Harper Blue Tories never ceases to amaze me. These folks have no class. You'd have never seen such a trick done by the Progressive Conservatives under Stanfield or Clark. It really started going downhill when Mulroney became leader and John Crosby became more influential in style if not in substance (he had already been Minister of Finance in Joe Clark's cabinet in 79).
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: dennilfloss
Sandorski's right. Dirty trick by Harper. This is clearly aimed at financially maiming the opposition parties.

We all knew going in Harper was going to make most propositions a confidence vote. This shouldn't surprise anyone.
 

imported_Imp

Diamond Member
Dec 20, 2005
9,148
0
0
Originally posted by: Champ
well its going to pass...it has to pass because there is nothing else to do about it...the Canadian people will be peeved if we have to vote again and Michelle will probably not grant another election so it passes or were in uncharted water

although if it doesn't pass I will finally be 18 and be able to vote

Does the Governor General really have that power? I really don't know, not jabbing.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,130
5,658
126
Originally posted by: Imp
Originally posted by: Champ
well its going to pass...it has to pass because there is nothing else to do about it...the Canadian people will be peeved if we have to vote again and Michelle will probably not grant another election so it passes or were in uncharted water

although if it doesn't pass I will finally be 18 and be able to vote

Does the Governor General really have that power? I really don't know, not jabbing.

In this situation where the Opposition can bring down a Minority Government and offer a Coalition of greater representation this is within the GG's options.
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
1
81
It's a pretty disgusting move that clearly demonstrates that the Tories are far, far more interested playing petty, nasty politics than actually governing.

$30 million is supposed to make the difference between a deficit and a surplus when the current update says there's a $800m surplus? Riiight.

Furthermore, they want to cut the funding, but not raise limits so the other parties can actually start raising more money. The Tories have cash right now so they know they will be alright, but they know this will hurt the other parties far, far more.

If they don't back down, I'd fully support brining down their government. These kinds of naked political plays should be discouraged in the best of times and are absolutely intolerable when there are more far more important issues.
 

imported_apocalypse

Senior member
Aug 27, 2008
449
0
0
If the Liberals had a stronger leader, their threat of forming a coalition government would be much more credible, but with Dion as the current leader, it doesn't work well. The liberal party itself wants him out after the poor election showing, he announced that he would step down as party leader for the next liberal convention, how will he then turn around and be the Prime Minister of a new coalition government? Jack Layton would be the other choice, but liberal insiders are unlikely to accept him as the PM.

The Conservatives are taking advantage of the economic crisis and the weak state of the opposition to slide in this political finance bill as a economic recovery issue. A nasty move, but clever on their part. The opposition is stuck between a rock and a hard place, cripple their finances, or bring down the government and face either an inviable coalition or trigger an election and be crucified by public opinion.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
If the Liberals make a deal with the NDP they will look power hungry and unwilling to accept defeat.
It will also outline how far left the liberal party has shifted and how centrist the Conservative party is.

This could work in the Conservative's favor as the fallout of a potential bail out can be blamed on the Liberals and NDP because there's no way they will cut spending. The Conservatives have a plan to reduce spending and not offer frivolous bailout of the economy. Most people in Canada understand this is an American problem and not the responsibility of the Canadian government to copy actions taken in the US.

This is a mess...
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
1
81
Originally posted by: Stunt
If the Liberals make a deal with the NDP they will look power hungry and unwilling to accept defeat.
It will also outline how far left the liberal party has shifted and how centrist the Conservative party is.

This could work in the Conservative's favor as the fallout of a potential bail out can be blamed on the Liberals and NDP because there's no way they will cut spending. The Conservatives have a plan to reduce spending and not offer frivolous bailout of the economy. Most people in Canada understand this is an American problem and not the responsibility of the Canadian government to copy actions taken in the US.

This is a mess...

Canadians want first and foremost competent governance and the Tories don't seem to be very interested in governing so much as politicking. They won an election, increased their seats, they are facing a bad economic situation so naturally their first response is ... to figure out the best way to hurt their political opponents. If they love petty, nasty politics so much, they should leave the federal government and go run for University Government, where they can get all the politics they crave with none of the obligations or responsibilities.

Yes, this is a mess - created out of nothing by Harper he needs to show everyone else who's boss. I for one, sincerely hope such stupid moves blow up in his face.
 

imported_Champ

Golden Member
Mar 25, 2008
1,608
0
0
I feel this will piss off the Canadian voter...six weeks ago Canada went to the polls...SIX WEEKS...and now they are attempting to force out the government ELECTED and replace them with an UNELECTED government

seriously this is now getting sad and embarrassing as this is not democracy anymore
 
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