Canadian Federal Election 2015

cbrunny

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2007
6,791
406
126
Writ dropped today! I love me some election.

Who are you voting for?

I don't know yet. Probably Green. But I do know that I will be actively campaigning against Trudeau. As long as he stays in the 3rd slot, this election will be a victory in my opinion.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,254
16,729
136
Please give me a brief synapses of what this means in Canada. I should know my neighbor better.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,697
8,099
136
Parliamentary elections and cash-limited campaigns confuse me.

Shouldn't you just vote for whichever candidate seems less shitty?

That's all the money interests who own and operate this country here in the US let us do.
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
11,941
8,369
136
Parliamentary elections and cash-limited campaigns confuse me.

Shouldn't you just vote for whichever candidate seems less shitty?

That's all the money interests who own and operate this country here in the US let us do.

Parliamentary elections are like House of Representatives elections.. every seat is up for election at the same time. Whichever party has a majority or can form a coalition can choose who will be the Prime Minister (speaker of the house) and he rules the country.

So technically Michelle Bachman if she can get elected from Insanity, Minnesota can be the Prime Minister if the US had a parliamentary system.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,231
5,807
126
Thinking about voting NDP for the very first time. We need a change and Justin hasn't inspired me.
 

cbrunny

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2007
6,791
406
126
Parliamentary elections are like House of Representatives elections.. every seat is up for election at the same time. Whichever party has a majority or can form a coalition can choose who will be the Prime Minister (speaker of the house) and he rules the country.

So technically Michelle Bachman if she can get elected from Insanity, Minnesota can be the Prime Minister if the US had a parliamentary system.

This is very inaccurate.

Edit: Adding some additional context.

In some ways it is incorrect, and in others it is similar. The Canadian federal level has one elected body - the House of Commons. Our Parliament, basically. We also have a senate but senators are selected by the Prime Minister. There are enormous and wide ranging differences between our Senate and the US senate, so for the sake of this post assume that nothing is the same for that body. If you have an interest in the Canadian Senate for some reason, there'll be lots of content on the web for you.

So when the PM goes to the Governor General (Queen's rep in Canada), he asks for the GG to dissolve parliament, triggering an election. This means we effectively have no fixed term elections, even though we sort of do (again, the web for you). An election can be called at any time for any reason that the PM decides (sort of. Google the King-Byng Wing-ding for one of a very short list of exceptions). When there is an election, all seats are up for election. Depending on the constituency there are somewhere between 2 and probably 4 major parties, possibly 5. Of those possible 5, really only three have a chance of winning and the others are there to drum support for niche issues.

The party that has the most seats at the end of the election is selected by the Governor General to create government, with the Prime Minister being the party leader (interestingly, the PM being the party leader isn't a constitutional requirement, nor is it law. It is just what happens, and has never not happened after an election). The Prime Minister is NOT the speaker of the house. In Canada these are very different titles than in the states, I'm guessing. The Speaker is selected from among the elected MPs. The Speaker's job is to enforce the house rules. The PM still basically sets the agenda for Parliament, with few exceptions. This is where the power of the PMs office comes from - the ability to set the agenda.

The party that wins the second most seats is the Official Opposition. They're a designated body who have the duty of scrutinizing everything the government does, and opposing it. This is why the OO so often votes against the government even on popular items.

The third party (aka, Trudeau's failure) basically do nothing, and are unimportant for the most part in the day-to-day of politics and governance.

Obviously the goal of the election is to win the majority of seats. That way the PM controls the entire vote (vote whipping is extremely strict, fascist by American standards) and can set the agenda for the entire term. HUGE power in the PM office in Canada. Way more than the President of the USA has. When a minority of seats is still the plurality, the same rules apply except the opposing parties can bring down the governing party at any time essentially with a vote of no-confidence. This would trigger an election.

Coalitions (e.g. agreements between two or more losing parties that won seats) can exist in which they agree to terms to govern, which theoretically the GG can use to select a different governing party than the single party that won the most seats. This would typcially only ever happen in a minority govenrment situation. Coalitions tend not to be very popular and are usually highly controversial. A coalition is a very specific thing though and it is only when two parties both have cabinet ministers within the same cabinet. This is not the same as a party propping up a minority government in exchange for policy, which is actually quite common in recent Canada.
 
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cbrunny

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2007
6,791
406
126
I'm confused as to why people are upset about the long campaign. If they're upset because the campaign is long and they don't like campaigns, I understand that. But this having anything to do with money makes no sense to me. All parties have the ability to fundraiser and there are very strict laws in Canada about that sort of thing. Really everyone knew a long campaign was possible in may of 2011. Not having sufficient money seems purely the fault of the party. Further, there is an argument that this costs the government too much money, to which I say there is no cost too high for democracy. An election that plays to the strength of a particular party is also no different than days before foxed elections wherein governing majorities would call an election simply when they were polling highest.

Any party that says they aren't ready to go to election now makes me seriously question their ability to understand and cope with even the smallest of unpredictable things. No way do I want my government completely inept to cope with unexpected circumstance. Complaining about the length of the campaign only serves to highlight incompetence.
 

cbrunny

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2007
6,791
406
126
I have the utmost respect for mulcair. I have no respect for Trudeau. My respect for harper was waning, if it ever really existed. That being said, I don't think I can bring myself to vote ndp until I've heard the platforms.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,231
5,807
126
I'm confused as to why people are upset about the long campaign. If they're upset because the campaign is long and they don't like campaigns, I understand that. But this having anything to do with money makes no sense to me. All parties have the ability to fundraiser and there are very strict laws in Canada about that sort of thing. Really everyone knew a long campaign was possible in may of 2011. Not having sufficient money seems purely the fault of the party. Further, there is an argument that this costs the government too much money, to which I say there is no cost too high for democracy. An election that plays to the strength of a particular party is also no different than days before foxed elections wherein governing majorities would call an election simply when they were polling highest.

Any party that says they aren't ready to go to election now makes me seriously question their ability to understand and cope with even the smallest of unpredictable things. No way do I want my government completely inept to cope with unexpected circumstance. Complaining about the length of the campaign only serves to highlight incompetence.

It sucks because it doesn't address the issues. Instead we get bombarded with Personal attack Ads and other worthless nonsense.
 

desy

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2000
5,442
211
106
I didn't mind Harper however due for a change I think
NDP probably, as in Sask its a better bet than Liberal getting a seat.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
30,031
45,271
136
I have the utmost respect for mulcair. I have no respect for Trudeau. My respect for harper was waning, if it ever really existed. That being said, I don't think I can bring myself to vote ndp until I've heard the platforms.

Voting for the c-51 bill really lost the liberals a lot of votes and respect
 

Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
I'm confused as to why people are upset about the long campaign. If they're upset because the campaign is long and they don't like campaigns, I understand that. But this having anything to do with money makes no sense to me.
You're quite lacking in adequate knowledge and common sense then...

Far starters, increasingly over the past year in the run up to the election, the Harper Government (their own queasy statist label and dear leader brand identity), if not illegally, then officially inappropriately used federal cash to fund more blatant than ever partisan ad campaigns by various ministries.

Then the crux is that the sitting government passed new legislation with the pre-planned intent to government coffers to its benefit.

The Globe and Mail

By launching the campaign six weeks early, he’s increasing the election spending limits, so his Conservative Party can take advantage of the fact that it has more money than the NDP or the Liberals. Conservative officials have whispered to reporters that the tactic will exhaust the other parties’ finances.

After seeing the Governor-General on Sunday, Mr. Harper insisted his motive was to ensure that the parties campaign with their own money, “not from the government resources, parliamentary resources or taxpayer resources.” He needed a sound bite, to cover the tactics. But it doesn’t add up.
Harper flat-out lied to the population at the call to an election at Government House.

Yet, cbrunny, you're obliviously 'confused as to why people are upset...'

Aside from the fact that it was the Conservative government bombarding airwaves with taxpayer-funded prewrit ads, a longer campaign means parties get more public money, not less. Taxpayers reimburse half of the money that parties spend in an official campaign – if they can spend more, they can get more. If the Conservatives spend the new maximum, they’ll get $26-million in public money, rather than $13-million. And if they outspend other parties, they’ll get more from taxpayers’ pockets.

Previously, a flat $25 million per federal party was the limit for spending -- thereby the lack of need to fundraise much beyond that. The Conservative Party of Canada planned to legislatively fix an upcoming election in its favour by going beyond past need in fundraising knowing full well that its questionable 'Fair Elections Act' would increasing spending limits with a newly legislated possibility for lengthened campaign.

Despite Harper's full on-lie (his first among many only moments into the campaign) about federal parties rather than taxpayers being on the possible hook for a more expensive campaign, the facts are that the tax coffers of the federal government may have to chock up ~$1.23 for ever $1 in election expenses by a party and its local candidates. The Conservative Party of Canada planned for this before fixing legislation to benefit in the regard, and have no lengthened the campaign to waste more taxpayer's money for their specific undemocratic benefit.

Clearly, Mr. Harper is calculating it won’t form an early theme. It’s still August. Voters will tune in more in September or October, when Mr. Harper will play to his strengths. The Conservatives will reap their money advantage in TV ads, and expect people to forget about the early election call.

This kind of manipulation once outraged Conservatives and their predecessor parties, the Canadian Alliance and Reform Party. The Alliance’s 2000 platform railed about Jean Chrétien’s “cynical motives” in calling early elections in 1997 and 2000, promising fixed dates to allow parties “to plan ahead, thereby ensuring a fairer process.” In 2006, Mr. Harper’s then-justice minister Rob Nicholson tabled the fixed-election-date law, promising it would “improve the fairness of Canada’s electoral system by eliminating the ability of governing parties to manipulate the timing of elections for partisan advantage.”
This is no longer simply the past concerns for an early election call, but of partisan fixing of the election in increasing the official campaign length for the desperate party in power to remain in power via the pilfering of tax collected cash.

Further, there is an argument that this costs the government too much money, to which I say there is no cost too high for democracy.
cbrunny, is that you 'Skippy'? This isn't about democracy, it's about scamming yet more money from country in debt all to keep an extremely statist and undemocratic federal party in power. cbrunny, why do you seem to trust the spin out of weasel such a Pierre Poilievre...?
 
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Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
The Conservatives only ability to attain power is via the first-past-the-post system whereby governance can be rather undemocratically attained with the minority of votes cast. If they loose power, this will change, and forever cement the ability for a minority of voters to elect their MP via vote splitting among rival candidates.

This would justifiably return the death of rather extreme and marginalising parties as the current Conservative Party of Canada. They've gone too far right, too extreme, even from the now dead federal PCs. A Harper Government would be unelectable. It represents the interest of a minority of Canadians. Future governance in Canada would require moderate approaches that represent the interests of the majority of Canadians.

The current rational predictions are that no party will attain a majority. A Conservative minority would likely fairly fall to the greater Member of Parliament numbers of an NDP-Liberal coalition. (No, cbrunny, not unappealing in Canada, only to core CPC voters who would democratically and fairly lose power). Election reform is therefore a near certainty with what I hope to be a rather simple ranking ballot where voters have the option to select their first choice for an MP and then down through second, third, etc., choices for the remaining parties' candidates. This is a simply system for understanding and alleviates a need for a runoff election to attain a 50%+ majority of ballots cast for a winner.

The Harper Government regularly runs afoul of the majority of Canadian interest, and in all fairness, the intentionally contentious and polarising likes of it deserve to never govern again.

The current system is relatively undemocratic as it returns the possible constituency representation as chosen by a minority of votes cast. Voters all deserve to be represented by whom the majority accept.

With reasonable cause, I'm Anyone But Harper. My riding will again go NDP. Just to the north, certainly the Green of Elizabeth May. Across the country, my only desire is for the current government to not have the ability to retain the confidence of Parliament. Get rid of the antiquated first-past-the-post (from the old expected days of the Tories vs the Whigs in an effectively regular two party system) that becomes undemocratic with our plurality of parties.
 
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Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
cbrunny, as of today in the traditionally pro-Conservative National Post.........

I can’t vote for the Harper Conservatives. I just can’t.

Elections are such infuriating spectacles that sometimes one doesn’t know which obscenity to utter first. But I’ve decided to aim my initial outburst at the Harper Tories.

I cannot vote for them. I just can’t. They should be my natural choice but their coarse, vindictive, proudly unprincipled cynicism must not be rewarded with electoral success, regardless of the consequences.
Let’s start with Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s first major campaign pledge: to make the home renovation tax credit permanent if he is reelected. If it were economics, it would clearly be bad economics, aiming to “stimulate” one of the few sectors of the economy doing so well it already has the government worried about a bubble.

Worse, it’s yet another “boutique” tax credit, disguised spending cunningly designed to look as though government is getting smaller, while actually making it bigger. The cliche that Harper shrank government suits partisans on all sides, but it is false.

Worse still, it rests on the premise that anything you want should be subsidized. The Tories were already pumping out dozens of press releases a week touting handouts to everyone from bison farmers to door makers, which assumes that nothing good can be produced through unaided private markets, a theory not even the NDP ever endorsed. Now they’ve doubled down, promising to subsidize anything you happen to like.

According to the prime minister, “For most Canadians, the family home is their biggest asset and their most significant investment in their future financial security. I’m therefore very pleased to announce that to help make it more affordable for Canadians to adapt their homes to their changing needs and to maintain and increase those houses’ values, we will establish a new home renovation tax credit.”

There’s absolutely no claim here that such handouts are a legitimate government function. It’s a bribe, plain, simple and naked: vote for us and we’ll give you money. Lots of it.

It was bad enough for them to subsidize my children at other people’s expense through the enriched Universal Child Care Benefit. But my patio? Could it be more crass, or insulting?

If taken seriously as political philosophy, it’s die-hard socialism. And as I’ve said before, if you’re going to get socialism, at least get it from honest socialists. But of course it’s not meant to be taken seriously. It’s just the nudge and wink that accompanies the envelope full of cash. And that corrosive dishonesty is the real sticking point for me.

Harper wrote his 1991 master’s thesis on “public choice” theory that, as his abstract put it, “policymakers are motivated by political goals, in particular electoral goals, rather than the social optima assumed by traditional macroeconomic policy prescriptions.” As a Reform MP and National Citizens’ Coalition president, he understood this to be a warning. Now he treats it as an operating manual.

Power has corrupted him and his party. I wrote nearly two years ago that Harper is unfit for office because he lied to Parliament over the Wright-Duffy affair, insolently telling incompatible tales five days apart in October 2013, and lying about having contradicted himself.

Instead of recoiling from this cynical deceit, his party enthusiastically embraced it. If they think him worthy of public trust, they aren’t either.

It doesn’t matter where you look. The Tories talk tough in foreign affairs and praise the military. But they gut defence to fund cynical handouts. They rope in the rubes by feigning concern about traditional marriage, abortion and God. But they do nothing. Indeed, when Health Canada approved the abortion drug RU-486, this administration, which takes credit for every sparrow that takes wing in Canada, suddenly hid under the bed.

Justice Minister Peter MacKay told reporters to talk to Health Minister Rona Ambrose. Ambrose passed the buck to Health Canada. Jason Kenney said nothing. (MP David Anderson condemned the decision but declined to be interviewed.)

These people are not honourable. Indeed, they laugh at honour. They cherish the low blow, the devious tactic, the unprincipled bribe, in a relentless, sneering, partisan tone. People I know and like retweet Pierre Poilievre with vicious glee. I weep for them and my country.

So am I contemplating voting Liberal or NDP? Ugh. Neither of the main opposition parties has recently shown themselves to be dishonourable. They may just be confused. But Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau will never be ready for prime time and neither will the NDP’s program.

I believe either would be an instructive disaster in power. But I cannot vote for disaster for my country, regardless of its educational merits. So I don’t know what to do. But I know what not to do.

Self-proclaimed “realists” may consider me unreasonably fastidious. But I will not give my vote to a party that disgusts and appalls me. Neither should you.

National Post
 

rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
4,410
3,183
146
You forgot to bold the best part

So am I contemplating voting Liberal or NDP? Ugh. Neither of the main opposition parties has recently shown themselves to be dishonourable. They may just be confused. But Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau will never be ready for prime time and neither will the NDP’s program.

Basically they are all idiots, and you get to vote for the least bad. Yay!
 

Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
Basically they are all idiots, and you get to vote for the least bad. Yay!
That's his opinion. Of a previously hard core CPC supporter who's expressing justification not to support the alternatives.

Notice for Trudeau, he's using the CPC tagline that's repeating -- verbatim - via ads and soundbites into Canadian's head -- 'he's not ready...'

The guy is in his 40s. Holds a degree that, unlike the current PM, actually applied to an applicable career. The current PM, with an unpracticed economics degree has now racked up consistent deficits for budgets during his term, governed over two recessions, and for deceptive political opportunism can't recognise to the current recession for what it is defined to be.

The facts are, that the CPC will face a decrease in participating support in this election. Not just of Red Tories who will vote for an alternative, but of course supporters who are so dissatisfied with current governance, that they are now motivated not to vote.
 
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Iron Woode

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 10, 1999
31,003
12,545
136
every time Kathy Wynne opens her mouth she is sending more votes Harper's way.

To be quite honest, I see no reason anyone could vote Liberal in Ontario and keep a straight face.
 

Iron Woode

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 10, 1999
31,003
12,545
136
That's his opinion. Of a previously hard core CPC supporter who's expressing justification not to support the alternatives.

Notice for Trudeau, he's using the CPC tagline that's repeating -- verbatim - via ads and soundbites into Canadian's head -- 'he's not ready...'

The guy is in his 40s. Holds a degree that, unlike the current PM, actually applied to an applicable career. The current PM, with an unpracticed economics degree has now racked up consistent deficits for budgets during his term, governed over two recessions, and for deceptive political opportunism can't recognise to the current recession for what it is defined to be.

The facts are, that the CPC will face a decrease in participating support in this election. Not just of Red Tories who will vote for an alternative, but of course supporters who are so dissatisfied with current governance, that they are now motivated not to vote.
so what you really saying, in-spite of all your rhetoric, that after the election we will have a minority PC government and NDP as official opposition?

because more than likely that is what will happen.
 
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