Canadian Federal Election 2015

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3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
81
children's aid society says it is. I don't agree but I haven't read anything that says an anonymous tip will result in such a thing either. If I'm wrong I'd like to know that as that would impact my opinion on this item.

Children's Aid does not have the power to take parents into custody or charge them criminally. They have an arguably controversial power to act in the 'interests of the child'.

The announced snitch line is a purely populist move to take advantage of anti-muslim sentiment.

I guarantee it is supported by the majority of Canadians, and they are wrong.

Fear, anger and hate is the motivation here and they are powerful emotions. They are most likely going to win this election for Stephen Harper, to the detriment of all Canadians.
 

cbrunny

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2007
6,791
406
126
As I said, there are none so blind as those who *refuse* to see.

meh. i'm not too worried about it. the existence or not of a tip line, just like the niqab and all the other identity politics issues that have been discussed here have no influence on my voting decision. fwiw, I'm still squarely in the undecided camp.
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
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meh. i'm not too worried about it. the existence or not of a tip line, just like the niqab and all the other identity politics issues that have been discussed here have no influence on my voting decision. fwiw, I'm still squarely in the undecided camp.

Sorry, but I don't believe that for a second.
 

Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
are you suggesting that forced marriage of young girls is OK? That's one of the practices your article mentions. Does society have a responsibility to protect its citizens?
Laws, calling to 911 and police availability to actions are already present.

Nowhere have you justified why extra expenses in the millions are required for a xenophobic and racial/religiously profiling snitch telephone call centre are to be necessary. Why only weeks to the end of a campaign is this announced? Because this is not a practice of good government, only xenophobic and rabble-rousing dog whistle politics. Damn the party responsible for such a corruption of society.

This is 'dog whistle' politics to of explicit xenophobia. I was absolutely correct in recognising and predicting the growth of dishonest, despicable, and un-Canadian (lead by the fringe of society -- Harper's Conservatives) campaign tactic. It's the infamous opus operandi with Harper's hiring of the wedge driving/race-baiting Australian campaign tactician.

How is this any different from calling something like the children's aid society?
'Barbaric' is explicit in its application to demonise the targeted religious group of this campaign - Muslims. It's a demonising judgement call against an identified group in society. This is explicit xenophobia to fabricate a wedge issue while ignoring the more pertinent issues of the incumbent government's record.

This is no different than the strategy of Hitler's brownshirts to rail against Jews as a distracting scapegoat in the decades following WWI and the 1929 economic crash. The Australian is hardly as blatant, but the core and dishonesty of the practiced strategy is the same. Wedge and racist politics to rally anger of a xenophobic and rather ignorant base -- cbrunny, as you promote and defend such policy in this thread, it is reasonably fair to associate you with a such an abhorrent lot.

I know you aren't defending terrorists but why is a Canadian terrorist equal to a not-terrorist Canadian? Why is citizenship different from freedom?
Freedom is lost by a judicially standing court of in the jurisdiction for a judged prison sentence. Crimes committed by Canadians in Canada are simply a Canadian issue. No jurisdictional standing for extradition treaties concerning other states to lay claim to a Canadian for crimes upon their territory.

Exile of Canadians is in stark violation of law and the Charter of Rights and freedoms -- Canadians have the right to enter, leave, and reside within Canada.

Legally simple and sound against the Conservatives ineptitude in law and sound judgement:

  • citizenship is earned based upon the honest accuracy of its application. Only fraudulent representation at the point of citizenship can justify its revocation.
  • the judiciary not the whim of politicians are to enact individual punishment.
  • Canadians are tried, judged, and punished for crimes committed within and remain in the jurisdiction of Canada. We are a mature state that is quite capable of dealing with our own.
Three very explicit and standing points that not only nullify any rational behind the Conservatives flouting of Canadian ideals and law.

The convict who was born in Canada as a Canadian? How the dare this corrupt government politically (not judiciary nor legally sound) attempt to revoke such a Canadian of his legal solidified status? Any crime by a recognised Canadian cannot deny his identity and citizenship. Nowhere for these scenarios has individual fraud been involved to attain Canadian citizenship. Simply a Canadian who committed a crime and justly sentenced in court by our shared laws. Canada ought to be mature and is quite capable of handling our own problems.

Harper is incompetent and incapable of taking ownership of our own problems and of justifiably and legally dealing with them within his state that he is expected to lead under the stand of peace, order, and good government.

This government is corrupt to its core. Against Canadian ideals of diversity and the respect for law.

Toss the bloody Harper government. Bloody well if Harper obtains a minority government in a few weeks then the opposition must join in a coalition to defeat that victor with a loss of confidence by the majority of the House of Commons. The first priority of any non-Harper government must be the legislation of election reform, to forever delete the electorial method of first-past-the-post, and progress to a far more democratic system -- preferential ballot rather than a messier proportional representation being my favoured route to elect a single MP per riding.

Unlike the current system, no Member of Parliament could gain a seat without a majority of support in their riding. The majority of Canadians consistently disapprove of the current government and of Harper's Conservatives, in general. The majority of Canadians have a preference of representation among the opposition parties. Vote splitting by a fringe party as the contemporary Conservatives could not again be employed to deny the democratic and representative will of the majority of the electorate.

As such, the 'dog whistle' politics and simple wedge issue strategies would hardly be as successful as under a first-past-the-post vote splitting tactics of today.
 
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Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
With a few weeks remaining , it is early, but let's hope the sensibility of the majority of Canadians can play out, where the Harper Conservative tactic of promoting irrational and excessive xenophobic fear to attract voters backfires into driving a greater concern and motivation to vote out of fear for the continued governance under Harper.

The rational fear (ideological hatred of any visible and present opposition to a homogenised and unrealistic ideal of "old-stock" Candianness) of Harper attaining another victory can drive the majority of the electorate to become more strategic and alter they vote per riding to the opposition party that presents a greater momentum to victory. From the NDP at the start of the election it may have swung to the Liberals, as in a month their numbers appear to have swapped.

Anyone-but-Conservative (Harper) can realistically become the drive to toss the Conservatives. After election reform, their only future hope in hell to regain governance would be for regression back to the more moderate embodiment of the lost Progressive Conservatives.
 
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cbrunny

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2007
6,791
406
126
This is no different than the strategy of Hitler's brownshirts to rail against Jews as a distracting scapegoat in the decades following WWI and the 1929 economic crash. The Australian is hardly as blatant, but the core and dishonesty of the practiced strategy is the same. Wedge and racist politics to rally anger of a xenophobic and rather ignorant base -- cbrunny, as you promote and defend such policy in this thread, it is reasonably fair to associate you with a such an abhorrent lot.

Excuse me? Are you actually saying that I am associated with Hitler?

I am gobsmacked. Speechess. The sheer stupidity, ignorance. Whiskey, you're just incredible. The delusion. The blindness. I've never EVER seen anyone who is so completely taken over by their own biases. You're a fucking moron of the most incredible quality.

I have no reason to defend my political opinions or preferences to you, but I will state clearly: I am not xenophobic. I am not interested in identity politics. I am not promoting MASS GENOCIDE. I will vote however I choose based on reasons that I deem important, none of which will have anything to do with race, gender, religion, clothing, phones, or absolutely any kind of social policy.
 
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Spungo

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2012
3,217
2
81
Nowhere have you justified why extra expenses in the millions are required for a xenophobic and racial/religiously profiling snitch telephone call centre are to be necessary.
It's concerning how every western country is quickly turning into a police state. What happened to the idea of just leaving people alone? Now everyone is watching everyone, everyone is a government spy, nothing is private. It's not just a government problem. It's a cultural problem. Why does it become front page news when a celebrity has an affair? Why do people care so much?

This cultural problem infects every aspect of our lives. Why do we have laws against things like marijuana? It's because assholes need to impose on everyone else. Everybody needs to think and act exactly like me or I'll have them arrested!
 

Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
It's concerning how every western country is quickly turning into a police state. What happened to the idea of just leaving people alone? Now everyone is watching everyone, everyone is a government spy, nothing is private. It's not just a government problem. It's a cultural problem. Why does it become front page news when a celebrity has an affair? Why do people care so much?

This cultural problem infects every aspect of our lives. Why do we have laws against things like marijuana? It's because assholes need to impose on everyone else. Everybody needs to think and act exactly like me or I'll have them arrested!
Thank you, spot on.

Some political parties lack the moral integrity to abide by good governance. Some, as Harper' s Conservatives are so desperate for power that they intentionally ignore law and an expected decorum of respect all to apply divisive and even racially/religious marginalizing bigotry (notably poltically pefected in 1930's Germany and such as less blunt model reapplied in many campaigns today... No cbrunny, never a mention of 'genocide,' just your dishonesty to dismiss valid comparisons what first occurs to marginalise a targeted people) all to whip up their xenophobic base.
 
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cbrunny

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2007
6,791
406
126
Thank you, spot on.

Some political parties lack the moral integrity to abide by good governance. Some, as Harper' s Conservatives are so desperate for power that they intentionally ignore law and an expected decorum of respect all to apply divisive and even racially/religious marginalizing bigotry (notably poltically pefected in 1930's Germany and such as less blunt model reapplied in many campaigns today... No cbrunny, never a mention of 'genocide,' just your dishonesty to dismiss valid comparisons what first occurs to marginalise a targeted people) all to whip up their xenophobic base.

I'm just gonna leave this here:

I will state clearly: I am not xenophobic. I am not interested in identity politics. I am not promoting MASS GENOCIDE. I will vote however I choose based on reasons that I deem important, none of which will have anything to do with race, gender, religion, clothing, phones, or absolutely any kind of social policy.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
30,031
45,271
136
i love it how if your view point disagrees an inch from Whiskey16's point of view that you are then suddenly a hardcore Harper supporter..
 

cbrunny

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2007
6,791
406
126
i love it how if your view point disagrees an inch from Whiskey16's point of view that you are then suddenly a hardcore Harper supporter..

A few posts ago, not only was I a hardcore CPC/Harper supporter, I was also Hitler! BOTH are news to me!
 

Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
Cbrunny retains his position to avoid discussion:
A few posts ago, not only was I a hardcore CPC/Harper supporter, I was also Hitler! BOTH are news to me!
Target than misrepresent, lie, and name call, I am still waitingto witness you ability to answer these statements and question against your presentation:

You raised a defence for Harper's campaign tactics of xenophobia.

I have no reason to defend my political opinions or preferences to you, but I will state clearly: I am not xenophobic. I am not interested in identity politics.



are you suggesting that forced marriage of young girls is OK? That's one of the practices your article mentions. Does society have a responsibility to protect its citizens?
Laws, calling to 911 and police availability to actions are already present.

Nowhere have you justified why extra expenses in the millions are required for a xenophobic and racial/religiously profiling snitch telephone call centre are to be necessary. Why only weeks to the end of a campaign is this announced? Because this is not a practice of good government, only xenophobic and rabble-rousing dog whistle politics. Damn the party responsible for such a corruption of society.

This is 'dog whistle' politics to of explicit xenophobia. I was absolutely correct in recognising and predicting the growth of dishonest, despicable, and un-Canadian (lead by the fringe of society -- Harper's Conservatives) campaign tactic. It's the infamous opus operandi with Harper's hiring of the wedge driving/race-baiting Australian campaign tactician.

How is this any different from calling something like the children's aid society?
'Barbaric' is explicit in its application to demonise the targeted religious group of this campaign - Muslims. It's a demonising judgement call against an identified group in society. This is explicit xenophobia to fabricate a wedge issue while ignoring the more pertinent issues of the incumbent government's record.

This is no different than the strategy of Hitler's brownshirts to rail against Jews as a distracting scapegoat in the decades following WWI and the 1929 economic crash. The Australian is hardly as blatant, but the core and dishonesty of the practiced strategy is the same. Wedge and racist politics to rally anger of a xenophobic and rather ignorant base -- cbrunny, as you promote and defend such policy in this thread, it is reasonably fair to associate you with a such an abhorrent lot.

I know you aren't defending terrorists but why is a Canadian terrorist equal to a not-terrorist Canadian? Why is citizenship different from freedom?
Freedom is lost by a judicially standing court of in the jurisdiction for a judged prison sentence. Crimes committed by Canadians in Canada are simply a Canadian issue. No jurisdictional standing for extradition treaties concerning other states to lay claim to a Canadian for crimes upon their territory.

Exile of Canadians is in stark violation of law and the Charter of Rights and freedoms -- Canadians have the right to enter, leave, and reside within Canada.
 
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cbrunny

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2007
6,791
406
126
You raised a defence for Harper's campaign tactics of xenophobia.

lol no I didn't. I asked a question. I didn't say "Harper is right" and I didn't say that I agreed with him. I asked a question about the phone line and about the citizenship issue. Quote where I clearly stated that I agreed and supported his position explicitly on these issues.

To be clear, I think the phone line is a gigantic waste of money and time. Period.

I honestly am dumbfounded at why you believe I support Harper. I do NOT support Harper. Period.

EDIT: And, again to be clear, I DESPISE electoral tactics that involve marginalizing individuals and/or groups of people. It's a shameful way to win an election that speaks volumes about the sort of governance that would be expected under the regime. No where in this thread or otherwise have I ever stated anything else.

In the post right above this, three of the quotes of mine clearly end in question marks. The one that doesn't explicitly states
I am not xenophobic. I am not interested in identity politics.
 
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3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
81
*Paging Mr. Godwin*

Stephen Harper is appealing to Canadians' inner racist. He is threatening liberty in the name of security, and some of these policies bear a passing resemblance to past civil atrocities. The snitch line, in particular is disturbing.

It is not possible to draw an analogy to 1930s Germany without destroying any rationality in the discussion. It is the 'rape joke' of political debate.

There are reasons that a rational person might support the Conservative economic platform. To me, even if I were that person, the current campaign would send my vote packing.
 

cbrunny

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2007
6,791
406
126
There are reasons that a rational person might support the Conservative economic platform. To me, even if I were that person, the current campaign would send my vote packing.

This is almost exactly how I feel. I started the election quite disenfranchised by the CPC, and it looks like I'll end there. I strongly feel that the Liberal economic plan is deeply flawed at the most basic level, and I believe the NDP changes to EI or CPP will be of economic detriment. I could go either way on national daycare, but I think anyone that believes $15 a day is completely out to lunch.

A major concern of mine is the debt ratio of households across the nation, but particularly in urban centres like Toronto. Once interest rates go up, it will be disastrous to the real estate market as people can't afford to pay their bills and end up losing their houses. I think it is nothing short of grossly irresponsible to be a leader that says it is ok to have more debt in these difficult economic times. Anything that can be done to reduce household debt should be in the top five priorities of any government, at least. That being said, I don't think Harper is going to do any more for that group of people than he has in the past, but the ability to balance the budget is in and of itself a massive step forward, even if it did mean cuts. As the economy continues to grow and the balance turns to greater surplus, I expect a Conservative government to either restore some cuts (not all, that would be crazy) or create new tax cuts.
 
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Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,110
1,260
126
This has turned out to be one of those elections where a lot of people are voting to remove a leader, rather than support their party of choice. Whatever vote best serves getting Harper out is the way a lot of people are voting, myself included.
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
81
This is almost exactly how I feel. I started the election quite disenfranchised by the CPC, and it looks like I'll end there. I strongly feel that the Liberal economic plan is deeply flawed at the most basic level, and I believe the NDP changes to EI or CPP will be of economic detriment. I could go either way on national daycare, but I think anyone that believes $15 a day is completely out to lunch.

A major concern of mine is the debt ratio of households across the nation, but particularly in urban centres like Toronto. Once interest rates go up, it will be disastrous to the real estate market as people can't afford to pay their bills and end up losing their houses. I think it is nothing short of grossly irresponsible to be a leader that says it is ok to have more debt in these difficult economic times. Anything that can be done to reduce household debt should be in the top five priorities of any government, at least. That being said, I don't think Harper is going to do any more for that group of people than he has in the past, but the ability to balance the budget is in and of itself a massive step forward, even if it did mean cuts. As the economy continues to grow and the balance turns to greater surplus, I expect a Conservative government to either restore some cuts (not all, that would be crazy) or create new tax cuts.
Household debt is a huge looming issue, and one none of the parties have a cohesive plan for attacking. I do think it is important to realize that government debt and private debt do not work the same way. Balancing the budget will have absolutely no effect (positive or negative) on household debt.
 

cbrunny

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2007
6,791
406
126
Household debt is a huge looming issue, and one none of the parties have a cohesive plan for attacking. I do think it is important to realize that government debt and private debt do not work the same way. Balancing the budget will have absolutely no effect (positive or negative) on household debt.

Of course. I completely agree. But I think most people don't understand that, and not balancing sets a terrible example.
 

Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
Of course. I completely agree. But I think most people don't understand that, and not balancing sets a terrible example.
cbrunny, state to us how many federal Harper budgets have been balanced..... How many recessions under their watch?

Answering those points can destroy any credibility for Conservatives as being good fiscal stewards deserving to hold their course.

Their economic record is rotten. Massive increases in federal debt load, a decades locked trade deal with China opening our state to their corporations without any reciprocity, destruction of federal research and development at the National Research Council negating future avenues for home controlled scientific and economic growth, etc...

No valid defence for this Harper government to retain governance.

No valid continued defence for a fringe consituent party to continue in power against the overwhelming majority of Canadians' opposition.

Toss this underservingly corrupt and immoral government. I don't care who, as anyone else between the NDP and Liberals demonstrate to have the majority of support by Canadians unlike Harper's government. Legislate electoral reform so that no MP will ever again attain a seat without support from the majority of their constituents. No more vote splitting of the majority of Canadian desires and permitting a fringe party such as Harper's to slide into disrepresentative power.
 
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