Canadian Federal Election 2015

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mammador

Platinum Member
Dec 9, 2010
2,128
1
76
???

Get up with the times. Results this week can officiate the Conservative Party of Canada's governance over a second recession.

Yep, you have shitty living standards...hence your high place in most global indices like the UN HDI...lol..

OK, I take it I'm not allowed (sic) to post here....that's fine, since I don't see where this is written. Oh, and this is in tone with all others here, you can find me and beat me to "sort me out"....you'll learn how to behave like a man after that...
 

mammador

Platinum Member
Dec 9, 2010
2,128
1
76
Are you Canadian?

lolol..no. But here's what.....if i'm not allowed to comment, then kindly prove it. or come and find me and beat me, your choice...... I'm from your supposed colonial "mother country"...oh, and get rid of our Queen, you've shown you can live by yourselves well enough now.
 

cbrunny

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2007
6,791
406
126
lolol..no. But here's what.....if i'm not allowed to comment, then kindly prove it. or come and find me and beat me, your choice...... I'm from your supposed colonial "mother country"...oh, and get rid of our Queen, you've shown you can live by yourselves well enough now.

I don't care if you voice an opinion. lol feel free.
 

Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
OK, I take it I'm not allowed (sic) to post here....
Excuse, me???

Not a soul here has hinted at preventing you from speaking your mind.

Unfortunately, yourself, as the OP, fail to comprehend the intent and manifestation of adequate discussion.

As the OP, mammador, are you also going to fabricate an echo chamber bubble when a fellow member challenges your posts?

A discussion is intended to grow when one presents points with other members being welcome to adequately respond.

I directly and correctly responded to an incorrect point you made..

mammador, please accept:

strong economy does not equal good living standards

Yep, you have shitty living standards...hence your high place in most global indices like the UN HDI...lol..
I never referenced living standards in Canada.

I politely corrected your misconception upon the incumbent government of Canada "preserving a strong economy."

You failed to more correctly state a campaign to repeat the continuance of a WEAK economy and govern over yet another recession....

mammador, here was the post that you found so insulting:

~~~~~~~~~~~
whoever preserves your strong economy. .
???

Get up with the times. Results this week can officiate the Conservative Party of Canada's governance over a second recession.
~~~~~~~~~~~


mammador, as the OP, if you cannot own up to direct challenges to your own statements, then that is your loss, and please don't sully the discussion due to your frustrations.
 
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mammador

Platinum Member
Dec 9, 2010
2,128
1
76
A strong economy certainly supports high living standards. To suggest otherwise is folly. and i'm not frustrated..just highly amused since you don't own this forum, nor seemingly all get basic human discourse (,i.e. light banter..)
 

Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
A strong economy...
Canada currently does not have a "strong economy."

mammador, you certainly lack an accurate perspective towards Canadian affairs. In this discussion, you have the opportunity to listen and learn.

Despite having been corrected, are you just going to keep arguing in futility? Where's your integrity, man?

strong economy does not equal recession

strong does not equal weak

The current Canadian economy is weak so what is your argument of 'preservation' for the status quo?

whoever preserves your strong economy. .
Your position for 'preservation' of economic affairs certainly does not help the incumbent Conservatives.

mammador, don't just take my word for the facts at hand:

Analysis
Stephen Harper avoids recession label on eve of GDP numbers


Posted: Aug 31, 2015 6:45 PM ET|

If the GDP numbers to be unveiled Tuesday do indeed indicate that Canada is in a technical recession, one could hear Conservative Leader Stephen Harper just dismiss it as a "modest recession, a tiny recession," a "so small you can hardly see" it recession.

..

Back in May, Statistics Canada recorded that Canada's economy had shrunk by an annualized rate of 0.6 per cent in the first three months of 2015. It was the first time the economy had contracted on a quarterly basis since 2011. According to Thomson Reuters, economists expect StatsCan to report Tuesday that the economy contracted at an annualized rate of 1.0 per cent in the second quarter.

..

Unfortunately, for the Tories, and as Barton pointed out in a recent column, the government's own anti-deficit legislation states that "recession means a period of at least two consecutive quarters of negative growth in real gross domestic product for Canada, as reported by Statistics Canada."

mammador, do you comprehend that?

Did you not argue for this federal election:

whoever preserves your strong economy. .
No, not 'strong.'

Again, don't just take my words for it:

Writing for Maclean's, Mike Moffatt, an assistant economics professor at Western University's Richard Ivey School of Business and economic adviser to Trudeau, noted the different definitions of the word and the complexities of identifying a recession.

'Economy was quite weak'

As Moffatt says, in real terms, "it matters little if the economy grows by a tenth of a per cent in the second quarter or shrinks by a tenth of a per cent. Regardless of which side of the line we end up on, the economy was quite weak."
mammador, you retain the non-silenced opportunity to again attempt at an adequate level of discussion.

Your turn.
 
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cbrunny

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2007
6,791
406
126
http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/andrew-coyne-on-tom-mulcairs-amazing-vow

An interesting take. Last two paragraphs.

Of course, the same scrutiny should apply to all the parties’ plans. But the NDP has a particular burden of proof to discharge: namely, the suspicion that what it is proposing is anathema to many in the party. I have every confidence the Liberals will run the deficits they promise: whatever their previous professions of belief in balanced budgets, there can be little doubt the party’s ideological heart leans in that direction. Conservative ideology, likewise, leans in the direction of balanced budgets, even if they strayed rather far off course after the financial crisis.

But what the NDP, under its current management, is asking the public to believe is that it will dispense with decades of party orthodoxy on deficits, even in the face of a possible recession; that, in the first rush of enthusiasm at being in power at last, and in the later crush of disillusionment as the reality of straitened resources sinks in, the leadership will still be able to impose its will on the party. That may be so, but I’d sure like to see the fine print.

This basically sums up how I feel about the economic & budget platforms of the big three. Cons will probably balance, Liberals will definitely run a deficit, and NDP needs to find a way to prove to me that they'll balance responsibly. I think Mulcair is capable, for sure, but I do not believe that the NDP at-large is capable of this. Unions lack the greater context and have their blinders on, and social program spending is extremely expensive generally. While I'm not opposed to some social program spending, I'm aware that this can easily be a run-away problem.

My biggest fear is increased spending + balanced budget via corporate tax increases.
 
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Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
Cons will probably balance....
Bullshit. All talk and fabrication by Harper that is rather consistently the opposite to practice and reality.

cbrunny, you drink the Conservative Kool-Aid.

Not a single surplus in all of the budgets under his watch. He won't even admit to the reality of today. Stay on a false message and the electorate has grown tired and overwhelmingly desires to toss him out of office. 9 years of deficit.

Harper, a graduate in economics, continues to express failings of comprehension and integrity on the matter:

National Post - John Ivison - August 31, 2015

Harper suggested that, while the energy sector had experienced a temporary slowdown, “roughly 80 per cent of sectors” have seen growth.

This is patently not the case.

According to the figures for the six months to the end of May, other areas of the economy, ranging from mining to manufacturing; from food services to cultural industries, experienced a drop in activity.
When you have a formerly strong National Post editorial cheerleader, John Ivison, calling Harper out on campaigning lies, then the Conservative Party of Canada is certainly in dire trouble.
 
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Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
A strong economy...
Officially, Canada's economy is weak:

Canada in recession as GDP shrinks in 2nd quarter

Canada's economy expanded in June but declined by 0.1 per cent for the second quarter as a whole, meeting the bar of what is legally defined as a recession.
..
The numbers bring an end to what had been a contentious issue during the current federal election campaign.
..
"With exports still struggling and business investment falling in response to the fallout in the energy sector, hopes for a sustained rebound beginning in the second half of the year look misplaced," Capital Econmics' David Madani said, noting that despite a drastically lower Canadian dollar, Canada only exported 0.4 per cent more in the quarter. And that figure follows two straight quarters of decline.
 

Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
On the refugee crisis that has become a crisis of ethics, integrity, and accountability to the Conservatives.

Difficulties and needless Conservative policy complications by the Department of Citizenship and Immigration did delay Alan Kurdi family from attaining refugee status in Canada and forcing them rather to wait but to flee into the EU.

An attempt was made for a private member's refugee sponsorship for the child's Uncle, but was most certainly denied the Ministry of immigration, after the letter was directly handed to the Minister himself. To deny the delays and refugee status denials by the majority of Syrian refugees is spun by the Conservatives to misdirect their responsibility on the Syrian refugees file.

Refugee crisis coverage, rivals' criticism frustrates Conservative campaign

...the story's resonance was amplified considerably by Canadian news reports that said the boy and his family had been trying to get to Canada, had formally applied and been refused. That false allegation, barely retracted in the Conservative view, painted Harper and his team as heartless, when in fact the government had already announced improvements to its policy and been ignored.

Media Fact Check

As National Post editor Jen Gerson suggests, the blunders in reporting this breaking news story do not change the core substance of it: the drowned boy whose picture made the world suddenly care about the refugee crisis might have found refuge in Canada. His family had tried. Our Immigration Minister was directly approached about this specific case.
Canada is not pulling its fair share and, expediently, should do more:

Louise Arbour says military 'not the answer' to Syrian refugee crisis

Canada can and should be doing more to bring in a larger number of Syrian refugees than the government's current target, says former Supreme Court justice and United Nations high commissioner on human rights Louise Arbour.

"I think these numbers, frankly — 10,000 over the next four years — are so out of proportion of what Canada should be doing," she said in an interview on CBC Radio's The House.

Arbour suggested a figure of 9,000 refugees a year, saying it is unfair for Syria's neighbouring countries to "overwhelmingly" bear the responsibility of resettling Syrians fleeing from a civil war that has killed over 300,000 people since civil war broke out in 2011.

"Bureaucracy's not an answer. Lots of things are doable," Arbour told host Chris Hall, referring to an unsuccessful refugee application for Mohammed Kurdi, uncle of drowned Syrian toddler Alan Kurd, which was returned as incomplete, according to the Department of Citizenship and Immigration Canada.

"To say a petition was denied because somebody didn't have a UN refugee designation — seriously? To put bureaucratic hurdles when this level of human suffering is unfolding I think is unconscionable."

A despicable policy by Harper's Conservative government that has, in practice, limited what refugees are acceptable:

Government faces questions about anti-Muslim bias over Syrian refugees

The Conservative government is facing renewed questions about an alleged anti-Muslim bias following revelations it wants to cherry-pick which Syrian refugees will be accepted into Canada.

Sources say the government wants to prioritize religious minorities as a condition for resettling thousands more Syrian refugees in Canada over the next two years.

But the United Nations has resisted Canada’s request, as its policy is to help the most vulnerable, no matter their religious background. This includes families led by women, torture victims and those with serious medical conditions.

The disagreement is reportedly why Canada remained silent at a major UN conference in Geneva this week as other countries promised to help the world body resettle 100,000 Syrian refugees by 2017.

Canada previously agreed to accept 1,300 Syrians by the end of this year, though fewer than 500 had arrived by mid-November.

About 3 million Syrians have fled into neighbouring Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey and Iraq since fierce fighting between Syrian government and rebel forces erupted in 2011. The situation has worsened with the rise of the Islamic State (ISIL) and other extremist groups.

..

The desire to accept only religious minorities has sparked fresh concerns the Conservative government’s refusal to do more in response to the Syrian refugee crisis is because the majority of those affected are Muslim.

Sunni Muslims account for nearly three-quarters of all Syrians, according to the CIA Factbook, while other Muslim groups such as Shias, Alawis and Ismailis represent another 16 per cent of the population. Christians and a small number of Jews represent the remaining 10 per cent.

“Obviously that continues to linger as the concern here,” said Amnesty International Canada secretary-general Alex Neve. “That this in some way, shape or form is about the fact that the majority of refugees fleeing Syria are Muslim.”
That's but one of countless policy examples, where Harper's government, in it's callous quest to retain power, is playing politics to its insensitive base rather than of good governance and human respect.

Canada's refugee policy questioned after Syrian boy's drowning

Harper is combining immigrants and refugees, however, two different classifications. Canada does accept a lot of economic immigrants, around 165,000 last year. But refugees make up less than 10 per cent of the people accepted into Canada. And the number of refugees granted status in Canada is down from over 35,000 in 2005 to roughly 23,000 in 2014.

Chris Alexander, the Conservative incumbent Minister for Immigration, was caught in yet another lie:
Of that 10,000 Syrian refugee commitment, the government says, so far, it has resettled 1,074 — 188 government assisted, 857 privately sponsored and 29 blended visa office-referred.

In total, 2,374 Syrian refugees have been resettled in Canada since the Conservatives made their 2013 pledge. And of those, 642 (27 per cent) have done so with government assistance[/U], and nearly all the rest with help from private organizations.

In an interview with CBC's Power & Politics, the immigration minister told host Rosemary Barton that government-assisted refugees remain a "huge component" of the program.

In brief:
What is Canada's immigration policy for Syrians?

◾Canada's government in January announced plans to resettle 10,000 refugees over three years
◾But it came under fire for saying it would prioritise persecuted ethnic and religious minorities, such as Christians. Rights groups label the policy as discrimination by religion
◾As of late July, Canada has only welcomed 1,002 Syrians, according to government figures
◾But Immigration Minister Chris Alexander said on Thursday Canada had taken in "approximately 2,500" to date

Poor, poor, Harper's Conservatives, eh? When caught stating campaigning and poor governance upon the Refugee file, particularly for Syrians, how dare the 5th estate critique the incumbent government?
 
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Enigmoid

Platinum Member
Sep 27, 2012
2,907
31
91
Officially, Canada's economy is weak:

And in reality that is meaningless.

- 0.1% vs + 0.1% is the same.

Don't believe the media stupidity on this. Likewise a budget with a deficit/surplus of +/- 1 billion is effectively balanced (especially if some of that deficit is caused by overzealous payment of the national debt). Much of this drop is coming from Alberta, which has really been hit hard by the situation.

People have the unfortunate tendency to blame politicians for things that have happened, regardless of whether those things are in any way attributable to the politician.

The recent tanking of the Canadian economy is due to oil prices dropping, driven by overproduction in the middle east, and america's drop in oil imports. These are not problems that can be addressed by any political party in Canada and it is not fair to blame them (neither is it fair to praise someone for doing a good job if the world in general is going through a period of growth). Politicians should be held responsible for what they have done; their actions and how they responded to the situation. Not for everything under the sun that happened to occur when they were in power.
 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
On the refugee crisis that has become a crisis of ethics, integrity, and accountability to the Conservatives.
Bla bla bla

I think the refugee crisis is a flash in the pan. Sure it get the leftist winning even more than usual but at the end of the day, it's just another election issue. The conservatives are going up in the polls and the NDP is going down, we can be grateful for this.

Poll Tracker: NDP's front-runner status at risk

I just ordered my Conservative lawn sign, Ill place it right beside ly wife's Liberal sign.....LOL
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,710
43,981
136
On the refugee crisis that has become a crisis of ethics, integrity, and accountability to the Conservatives.

Difficulties and needless Conservative policy complications by the Department of Citizenship and Immigration did delay Alan Kurdi family from attaining refugee status in Canada and forcing them rather to wait but to flee into the EU.

An attempt was made for a private member's refugee sponsorship for the child's Uncle, but was most certainly denied the Ministry of immigration, after the letter was directly handed to the Minister himself. To deny the delays and refugee status denials by the majority of Syrian refugees is spun by the Conservatives to misdirect their responsibility on the Syrian refugees file.



Canada is not pulling its fair share and, expediently, should do more:



A despicable policy by Harper's Conservative government that has, in practice, limited what refugees are acceptable:

That's but one of countless policy examples, where Harper's government, in it's callous quest to retain power, is playing politics to its insensitive base rather than of good governance and human respect.



Chris Alexander, the Conservative incumbent Minister for Immigration, was caught in yet another lie:


In brief:


Poor, poor, Harper's Conservatives, eh? When caught stating campaigning and poor governance upon the Refugee file, particularly for Syrians, how dare the 5th estate critique the incumbent government?

The NDP/Green's/Liberals/BQ could have been in power and it would have made no difference....
 

Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
And in reality that is meaningless.

- 0.1% vs + 0.1% is the same.

Don't believe the media stupidity on this.
"Stupidity?"

By any analyses other than full falsehoods, you have supported the statement that the Canadian economy is WEAK.

Enigmoid, do wish to try again, or continue on in futility for defence of the incumbent Harper Conservatives consistently mishandling the economy for their near decade on office?

Enigmoid, is dishing out Conservative talking points of blaming the "media" for calling a spade a spade. Their recorf is open to critique. If they lie and argue of Enigmoid is farting to the wind, then that's even further damning and keeps the topic louder in the press. Conservatives, not the media's fault nor "stupidity."

Recession and practically negative to barely zero growth on a state's economy is that of being WEAK and not to be a point of pride nor an satisfying argument for re-election to govern.
 
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Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
The NDP/Green's/Liberals/BQ could have been in power and it would have made no difference....
?

Ignoring, reality you are.

I already supported that a decade ago, before Harper came to power, in 2005 Canada accepted 25,000 refugees.

A much higher proportion than the current government sponsored tally of 27% of refugees was achieved before the Harper government.

Canada was far more active with the UNHCR to help process and accept refugees.

Only under the Harper government have international agencies been so offended and relatively ignored.

Only under the Harper government has policy been legislated to practice religious prejudice to cherry pick religiously 'acceptable' refugees while passing off a greater number in need.

KMFJD, your relative defence of Harper's conservatives is fully wrong. Other governments most likely would not perform so insensitively, offensively, and impotent. The records stands back to back from the Liberals to Conservatives of decreasing Canadian performannce and respect for refugees.
 
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Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
I think the refugee crisis is a flash in the pan. Sure it get the leftist winning even more than usual but at the end of the day, it's just another election issue. The conservatives are going up in the polls and the NDP is going down, we can be grateful for this.

I just ordered my Conservative lawn sign, Ill place it right beside ly wife's Liberal sign....
"We? " Daming the, " leftists? "

You are in a fringe minority in the country. Democratically you lot have no rational representative business to govern.

Your selective blip in polling misses how far Conservative support has fallen since before the writ was drawn. You neglect that the current polls show roughly equal loss of support for the NDP going to both the Conservatives and Liberals.

All it may take to end the fringe from governing again is a majority of parliament being largely composed of non-Conservative representation. If by some major change from earned misfortune Harper does manage first divs at a minority government, a majority parliamentary coalition amongst the opposition can happen. If so, witness an agreement to legislate election reform to fairly forever deny a fring party such as the Reform-Alliance Conservatives from ever again achieving power by splitting the vote between the majority of Canadians.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,710
43,981
136
?

Ignoring, reality you are.

I already supported that a decade ago, before Harper came to power, in 2005 Canada accepted 25,000 refugees.

A much higher proportion than the current government sponsored tally of 27% of refugees was achieved before the Harper government.

Canada was far more active with the UNHCR to help process and accept refugees.

Only under the Harper government have international agencies been so offended and relatively ignored.

Only under the Harper government has policy been legislated to practice religious predicious to cherry refugees while passing off a greater number in need.

KMFJD, your relative defence of Harper's conservatives is fully wrong. Other governments most likely would not perform so insensitively, offensively, and impotent. The records stands back to back from the Liberals to Conservatives of decreasing Canadian performannce and respect for refugees.

roflmao....i disagreed that the refugee crisis would have happened no matter who was in charge and now i'm a harper supporter? you're as blinded as a lot of the right wing people i see here.
 
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Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
roflmao....i disagreed that the refugee crisis would have happened no matter who was in charge and now i'm a harper supporter? you're as blinded as a lot of the right wing people i see here.
Yes, there certainly would be a crisis, but with all reason and the precedent of history, you were in practice defending Harper by stating potential policy action and effects by anyone else would return no improvement and remain as bad as his...

You may not intend to defend Harper, and I'll recognise that, yet relatively and without common sense of the horrendous policy reality at hand, you did.
 
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Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
I think the refugee crisis is a flash in the pan. Sure it get the leftist winning even more than usual but at the end of the day, it's just another election issue. The conservatives are going up in the polls and the NDP is going down, we can be grateful for this.

I just ordered my Conservative lawn sign, Ill place it right beside ly wife's Liberal sign....
Whatever delusions keep you happy...

Number1 is raving due a single day of a few polls returning a blip of Conservatives going up....towards victory? That didn't last long. Oops...

Analysis Poll Tracker: Tories drop to 3rd place, NDP's lead shrinks

Two new polls published after the EKOS survey continue to show weakening numbers for the New Democrats. But they also show the Conservatives in third place.
..
As a result of adding these two new polls to the Poll Tracker, the Conservatives are now in third place behind the Liberals and the NDP in both projected support levels and likely seat wins.
A long campaign, but rather consistent trend of Haper's Conservatives continually losing support.

That consistent downward trend and at record low levels since the formation of Harper's Conservative Party of Canada does not bode well to their retention of government.

Number1, how's that Harper Kool-Aid and Con lawn sign going down for ya?
 

Enigmoid

Platinum Member
Sep 27, 2012
2,907
31
91
"Stupidity?"

By any analyses other than full falsehoods, you have supported the statement that the Canadian economy is WEAK.

Oh its not strong. But its important to look at the causes and effects as well as the local economies of the provinces.

The majority of Canada is affected because of the oil prices dropping though the roof. The question is how are the other components of the economy doing.

Last month had 0.5% growth for example.

Enigmoid, do wish to try again, or continue on in futility for defence of the incumbent Harper Conservatives consistently mishandling the economy for their near decade on office?
Again? The point is not if the economy did poorly under harper, but if the economy did better under Harper that it would have done under any of the alternatives. Also, the question for the future is who is going to do the best for the economy of Canada in the next couple years.

Instead of constantly bashing the conservatives on the economy, what parts of the economy has harper mismanaged, and what feasible alternatives could he have implemented to avoid Canada's current economic problems?

Please don't get me wrong I'm not attacking you. I just think you hate harper with a passion (which is fine) but are thinking up any and every reason to attack him instead of things he is responsible for.
Enigmoid, is dishing out Conservative talking points of blaming the "media" for calling a spade a spade. Their recorf is open to critique. If they lie and argue of Enigmoid is farting to the wind, then that's even further damning and keeps the topic louder in the press. Conservatives, not the media's fault nor "stupidity.
Sure their actions are open to critique. But their talking points must also be addressed under their merit (which they may and likely do fail) rather than simply be dismissed as 'conservative talk is meaningless'.

I should point out that I really don't like Harper. I hate his attitude and arrogance and think that its time for him to go. Trudeau is an absolute twit. Mulcair is a nice guy but he is running for the NDP despite his strong conservative roots. Its not a question of who do you like, its who do you think is the least harmful.

Recession and practically negative to barely zero growth on a state's economy is that of being WEAK and not to be a point of pride nor an satisfying argument for re-election to govern.
So the economy sucked. How, in your infinite wisdom, should this weak economy have been avoided?
 

Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
The majority of Canada is affected because of the oil prices dropping though the roof. The question is how are the other components of the economy doing.
Ahh, another false Conservative talking point. No, much of the economy, NOT JUST THE OIL SECTOR, has displayed poor performance. That Harper deflection and misrepresentation of the actual economy has already been addressed in this thread:

National Post - John Ivison - August 31, 2015

Harper suggested that, while the energy sector had experienced a temporary slowdown, “roughly 80 per cent of sectors” have seen growth.

This is patently not the case.

According to the figures for the six months to the end of May, other areas of the economy, ranging from mining to manufacturing; from food services to cultural industries, experienced a drop in activity.
When you have a formerly strong National Post editorial cheerleader, John Ivison, calling Harper out on campaigning lies, then the Conservative Party of Canada is certainly in dire trouble.

Again? The point is not if the economy did poorly under harper, but if the economy did better under Harper that it would have done under any of the alternatives.
Harper has had his turn. He has failed, and you are using a basis of his failure to damn other parties, and as a basis for the Conservatives re-election?

Blame on oil and a downturn in the global economy? Among G7 states, Canada is dead last in economic growth! Yet the Conservative mantra is falsely proclaim a successful economic record and any failings to be external faults of others. No integrity. If Harper's Conservatives stick to their lying messages, and refuse responsible for their poor economic performance, then voters will soon have the opportunity to have them pay on their record at the polls.

That's quite unreasonable. Harper is campaigning as a "strong steward of the economy" and here you are Enigmoid, yet again pushing forth yet another Harper talking point of, "LOOK, RABBITS!; the other guys will ruin the economy! Stay the course..."

No matter how you add it up, Harper’s fiscal record is a catastrophe

On April 8, Finance Minister Joe Oliver stood up before the Economic Club in Toronto and delivered what can only be described as one of the greatest “fantasy economics” speeches in decades.

It was a message from a parallel universe — one in which the Harper government delivered ‘sound economic management’ through the recession (it didn’t), the economy recovered its pre-recession growth pattern (it hasn’t) and Ottawa is delivering tax relief for the average Canadian household (it isn’t). Stranger still, it’s a parallel universe where Pierre Trudeau is still around, haunting us.

In his speech, Oliver somehow contrived to blame Justin Trudeau for the alleged fiscal sins committed by his father during Trudeau Senior’s decade in power. (Justin Trudeau is 43. He was in his early teens when his father left office. Somehow we doubt Pierre was taking Justin’s fiscal advice at the time … but that’s the magic of rhetoric for you.)
..
So what about the Liberals? Oliver is hardly going to give any credit to Jean Chretien and Paul Martin for getting the federal government out of the worst fiscal crisis it had ever faced.

According to Oliver, the Liberals balanced the budget “by hiking taxes, cutting vital programs and slashing billions in transfer payments.”

Now, as far as we can recall, the Liberals imposed a temporary capital tax on large deposit taking institutions; a higher tax on large corporations; a temporary corporate surtax; and higher excise taxes on gasoline and tobacco products. That was it. There were no higher taxes on the elderly, as Oliver has claimed.
..
In 1994-95, the federal deficit was 4.7 per cent of GDP. By 1997-98 the deficit had been eliminated and the federal government ran surpluses for the next nine years. The federal debt was actually reduced by $90 billion; the debt burden fell from 66.6 per cent in 1994-95 to 31.4 per cent in 2006-07.

How does this compare to the Harper government’s fiscal record? In 2006-07, the Conservatives inherited a surplus of $13.8 billion — which they turned into a deficit of $5.8 billion within two years.

Since then, they have been in deficit each and every year. In 2009-10, the deficit reached its peak of 3.5 per cent of GDP. They are desperate now to show a surplus in 2015-16 — one surplus in nine years. Since Harper was elected, the federal debt has increased by over $150 billion, wiping out the reduction in federal debt achieved under Chretien and Martin. Not much to boast about there.
..
What about the government’s commitment to economic growth and job creation? Who hasn’t heard about the 1.2 million jobs created since “the depths of the recession”? Again — time for a reality check.

The figure — 1.2 million — is correct, but almost meaningless. It certainly doesn’t describe the performance of the economy since 2006 and the labour market situation in Canada. Since 2006, economic growth has declined in every year since 2010 and averaged only 1.7 per cent per year.

In the previous nine years, economic growth averaged 3.4 per cent per year. In 2014, only 120,000 new jobs were created — less than in 2013.
At the end of 2014, the unemployment rate was higher than at the end of 2008. The labour force participation rate was lower than in 2008.
..
All of this, of course, came after the government’s biggest and most foolish tax cut — the two point cut in the GST which every economist warned them was a terrible idea. Sure enough, it was a major factor in putting the government into deficit.

The key thing to remember here is that these tax cuts accomplished nothing for the economy. None of them contributed to economic growth or job creation. They certainly didn’t contribute to tax fairness.

Numbers don’t lie, but people do. It’s one thing to spin your failures as successes — it’s another thing entirely to try to present a decade of fiscal failure as one long triumph.

You want relative defence of Harper, then you won't find it. The recorded measures of this government's economic performance related to past governments are quite damning:

Rhetoric vs Reality: The Harper Govt Economic Record



For 7 of the 16 indicators, the Harper government ranks last (or tied for last) among the nine postwar Prime Ministers. In 6 more cases, it ranks (or is tied) second-last. Among the remaining 3 indicators, the Harper government never ranks higher than sixth out of nine.

Considering the overall average ranking of each Prime Minister (across all 16 indicators), the Harper government receives an average ranking of 8.05 out of a worst-possible 9.0. That is dead last among the nine postwar governments, and by a wide margin – falling well behind the second-worst government, which was the Mulroney Conservative regime of 1984-93.
The very poor economic record of the Harper government cannot be blamed on the fact that Canada experienced a recession in 2008-09. In fact, Canada experienced a total of ten recessions during the 1946-2014 period. Most governments had to grapple with recession at some point during their tenures – and some Prime Ministers had to deal with more than one. Instead, statistical evidence shows that the recovery from the 2008-09 recession has been the weakest (by far) of any Canadian recovery since the Depression. A uniquely weak recovery, not the fact that Canada experienced a recession at all, helps explains the Harper government’s poor economic rating.

This statistical review confirms that it is far-fetched to suggest that Canada’s economy has been well-managed during the Harper government’s time in office. To the contrary, there is no other time in Canada’s postwar economic history in which Canada’s economy has performed worse than it did under the Harper government.

For Canadians, the legacy of this government has been unemployment, insecurity, and debt.
Who else wants to argue in relative defence of the Harper's government economic record as deserved cause for re-election?

They've had their chance, mismanaging the economy, implementing the wrong, misdirected, wasteful and even damaging tax credits, and then into fiscal stupidity of delaying and mismanaging military procurements that will increase costs into the billions and decrease the purchasing power for now fewer replacements, and then the corrupted waste into the hundreds of millions for failed court case defences of legislated but unconstitutional bills and squandered revues for partisan political ads during their tenure of a constant campaign.

Turf them. If one wants to defend them, the try in futility to specifically defend their horrendous record. How will the alternatives do worse? Don't just toss out falsified Conservatives talking points of stay the course and fear the Trudeau or NDP bogeymen.
 
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Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
"We? " Daming the, " leftists? "

You are in a fringe minority in the country. Democratically you lot have no rational representative business to govern.

Your selective blip in polling misses how far Conservative support has fallen since before the writ was drawn. You neglect that the current polls show roughly equal loss of support for the NDP going to both the Conservatives and Liberals.

All it may take to end the fringe from governing again is a majority of parliament being largely composed of non-Conservative representation. If by some major change from earned misfortune Harper does manage first divs at a minority government, a majority parliamentary coalition amongst the opposition can happen. If so, witness an agreement to legislate election reform to fairly forever deny a fring party such as the Reform-Alliance Conservatives from ever again achieving power by splitting the vote between the majority of Canadians.

Lighten up. Fringe... LOL, 30% of the population is a fringe, ya right.
It's a long way to the election now but it sure looks like we are going to get a minority government. Gguess what, one way or the other, my "fringe" party is going to end up having a lot of influence in how Canada is run.

"Fringe" LOL


You leftists have been whining for 10 years now. You guys crack me up.
 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
Whatever delusions keep you happy...

Number1 is raving due a single day of a few polls returning a blip of Conservatives going up....towards victory? That didn't last long. Oops...

A long campaign, but rather consistent trend of Haper's Conservatives continually losing support.

That consistent downward trend and at record low levels since the formation of Harper's Conservative Party of Canada does not bode well to their retention of government.

Number1, how's that Harper Kool-Aid and Con lawn sign going down for ya?

Sounds like you had a few.

Slow down, one letter at a time, use a spell checker.
 
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