Canadian Federal Election? - With Poll

[GreyMittens]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: GreyMittens
I like PC, however, I like the Liberals decision not to enter the Iraq war (which I think the PCs would have supported).

Edit: PS - Shame on you if you are eligible to vote but do not.

If Martin was in power at the time with David Pratt as his Defense Minister, we would be in Iraq right now.

Well let me say this then, I am thankful that we currently are not in Iraq fighting an unjustified war. Anyhow, it's PC for me.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: sandorski
You know my positions, we disagree on the Libs and I'll leave it at that.

Everyone keeps talking about Martin's fiscal conservative side, several people above mentioned it.

Just asking for the fiscal conservative policies he has implemented while in power...maybe even something he has openly talked about or tried to push for.

He's not fiscal conservative at all...once you realize this, you will see he is nothign more than a power hungry, rich elitest. Martin is worth more than Bush and Cheney combined, his company is exceptional at tax avoidance, and he pays in Canada for medical services. The man is the biggest joke of a prime minister ever, maybe he was the shining light under Chetien (doesn't say much), but he has been a horrid leader.

His personal worth has no bearing on things, nor the way his business is structured.

Due to his fine job as Finance Minister he has not really had to do much more to advance Fiscal Conservatism. It was already implemented and working fine when he became PM. Before him the Conservatives made the Deficit an issue, but failed miserably at tackling the issue. It was not until Marting became Finance Minister that serious attempts were made to finally fix the problem, including many decisions that were very unpopular that the Conservatives didn't have the balls to try.

Martin is the biggest joke of a PM ever? How do figure that? He has never(except through acquiring a sitting government from Chretien) had a Majority government in which to freely govern which has seriously hampered any attempt of an independent policy. This has certainly made his government weak, but to say that this reflects on his abilities as a PM is rather disingenuous.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Jimmah
After hearing about, eading about and generally seeing how my life is being put to sh!t from the libs, I'm defintly against them. Problem is, who can I be 'for'? Conservs are a scary bunch, NDP is the only one I can consider and thats a stretch. Probably NDP, their goals suit how I think the country should be run better than the Libs or Cons.

Personally, I think the next PM should be even more hostile to the US. Softwood lumber comes to mind why I despise the US, another would be NAFTA, and oil another. I hope for a leader whom will do more relations with the EU and less with the US. Perhaps I am just wishing though, as most likely the next election will be liberal again.

You are pretty much stupid for watching less relations with the US. We account for 85% of your trade...and you want less relations? Unbelievable...

what's that old saying about putting all your eggs in one basket? Especially if that basket belongs to a psychopath...

No offense, but the US is much more important to you than you are the US. Canada would only be a shadow of itself without the US.

Boy are you dense...

Let me explain to you, in very very simple terms.
1. People like you are arrogant, control freak assholes who hate us.
2. Because of people like you, we cannot get along.
3. Because we cannot get along, our politicians should find ways to lessen our dependence on people like you.
4. Ergo, they should pursue deeper relations with other countries in order to diminish the influence of people like you.
5. Electing politicians who won't be US poodles is the way to do that.

So are you saying my statement is wrong, or are you just mad that I said what everyone already knows?

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: sandorski
His personal worth has no bearing on things, nor the way his business is structured.

Due to his fine job as Finance Minister he has not really had to do much more to advance Fiscal Conservatism. It was already implemented and working fine when he became PM. Before him the Conservatives made the Deficit an issue, but failed miserably at tackling the issue. It was not until Marting became Finance Minister that serious attempts were made to finally fix the problem, including many decisions that were very unpopular that the Conservatives didn't have the balls to try.

Martin is the biggest joke of a PM ever? How do figure that? He has never(except through acquiring a sitting government from Chretien) had a Majority government in which to freely govern which has seriously hampered any attempt of an independent policy. This has certainly made his government weak, but to say that this reflects on his abilities as a PM is rather disingenuous.

His personal wealth doesn't really have much to do with it other than his hypocrisy with regards to taxation, and healthcare.

Having tax cuts in 1997 (almost a decade ago) and running massive surpluses (lack of investment in people, education), doesn't show 'implemented fiscal conservatism'. Martin did a good job under Chretien, but he has nothing to show at all for proving his fiscal conservatism. Even you refuse to show examples while he was PM, just fall back on his efforts many years ago, not representative of him today.

Martin has been a brutal leader, he is far to analytical and never puts his foot down on any one view. He is a finance guy, not made for anything more than the back room. He's done absolutely nothing that would make me want to vote for him, for a sitting PM that's pretty sad. I can at least think of things I liked in Bush, and definately Clinton...but Martin...nope.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: ntdz
So are you saying my statement is wrong, or are you just mad that I said what everyone already knows?

I first want to say that the US is not a psychopath and less relations with the US is just plain stupid.

That being said, every country in the world economically is nothing next to the US, but collectively the US is just as dependent on the world than the world (inc. Canada) is on the US.

While we are very much tied to your economy, so is the US and our economy, there is a reason you do trade with us, and those benefits are something to not forget when writing off a country. Fact of the matter is, Canada is 1/10th the size of the US. The US is huge. 1/10th of huge is still big. Canada has a lot to offer ameicans and you have a lot to offer us, welcome to the global economy.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: GreyMittens

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: GreyMittens
I like PC, however, I like the Liberals decision not to enter the Iraq war (which I think the PCs would have supported).

Edit: PS - Shame on you if you are eligible to vote but do not.

If Martin was in power at the time with David Pratt as his Defense Minister, we would be in Iraq right now.

Well let me say this then, I am thankful that we currently are not in Iraq fighting an unjustified war. Anyhow, it's PC for me.

An interesting choice, since there is no PC party

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
An interesting choice, since there is no PC party

Nope, they merged with a party with similar ideals to create a national alternative to a corrupt, bloated, ineffective governing party.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: ntdz
So are you saying my statement is wrong, or are you just mad that I said what everyone already knows?

I first want to say that the US is not a psychopath and less relations with the US is just plain stupid.

That being said, every country in the world economically is nothing next to the US, but collectively the US is just as dependent on the world than the world (inc. Canada) is on the US.

While we are very much tied to your economy, so is the US and our economy, there is a reason you do trade with us, and those benefits are something to not forget when writing off a country. Fact of the matter is, Canada is 1/10th the size of the US. The US is huge. 1/10th of huge is still big. Canada has a lot to offer ameicans and you have a lot to offer us, welcome to the global economy.

I agree with everything you said.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
An interesting choice, since there is no PC party

Nope, they merged with a party with similar ideals to create a national alternative to a corrupt, bloated, ineffective governing party.

Right....

Maybe one day when they actually have similar ideals to the old PC party, they will be worth giving my vote

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: ntdz
So are you saying my statement is wrong, or are you just mad that I said what everyone already knows?

I first want to say that the US is not a psychopath and less relations with the US is just plain stupid.

You're always posting about investing and such, so tell me, which single stock did you invest 85% of your money in?

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: ntdz
So are you saying my statement is wrong, or are you just mad that I said what everyone already knows?

I first want to say that the US is not a psychopath and less relations with the US is just plain stupid.

You're always posting about investing and such, so tell me, which single stock did you invest 85% of your money in?

I have my energy fund (40%), the rest evenly distributed to 3M, H&Rblock, Coke, and Jean Coutu.

I'd say 85% US, mostly because there is a lot of value there; the TSX is trading 20% above a year ago, plus the Can$ is trading high vs. US$. Lots of reasons why I am in the US right now, but do you have a point to make about that?

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Jimmah
After hearing about, eading about and generally seeing how my life is being put to sh!t from the libs, I'm defintly against them. Problem is, who can I be 'for'? Conservs are a scary bunch, NDP is the only one I can consider and thats a stretch. Probably NDP, their goals suit how I think the country should be run better than the Libs or Cons.

Personally, I think the next PM should be even more hostile to the US. Softwood lumber comes to mind why I despise the US, another would be NAFTA, and oil another. I hope for a leader whom will do more relations with the EU and less with the US. Perhaps I am just wishing though, as most likely the next election will be liberal again.

You are pretty much stupid for watching less relations with the US. We account for 85% of your trade...and you want less relations? Unbelievable...

what's that old saying about putting all your eggs in one basket? Especially if that basket belongs to a psychopath...

No offense, but the US is much more important to you than you are the US. Canada would only be a shadow of itself without the US.

Boy are you dense...

Let me explain to you, in very very simple terms.
1. People like you are arrogant, control freak assholes who hate us.
2. Because of people like you, we cannot get along.
3. Because we cannot get along, our politicians should find ways to lessen our dependence on people like you.
4. Ergo, they should pursue deeper relations with other countries in order to diminish the influence of people like you.
5. Electing politicians who won't be US poodles is the way to do that.

So are you saying my statement is wrong, or are you just mad that I said what everyone already knows?

Your statment "we account for 85% of your trade" is correct, because its fact. Your statement "you're stupid for wanting less relations" is opinion and it's wrong. Having so much at stake in a single country means you are in their power and always in a position of weakness. You can see this playing out right now - the US freely ignores treaties they've signed, while all Martin can do is whine.

Now, wanting more relations with the US is a wonderful policy if what you want is for Canada to be nothing more than a subservient doormat/poodle (hence why you like the policy so much), but those of us who like the idea of a sovereign Canada aren't that big on it.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: ntdz
So are you saying my statement is wrong, or are you just mad that I said what everyone already knows?

I first want to say that the US is not a psychopath and less relations with the US is just plain stupid.

You're always posting about investing and such, so tell me, which single stock did you invest 85% of your money in?

I have my energy fund (40%), the rest evenly distributed to 3M, H&Rblock, Coke, and Jean Coutu.

I'd say 85% US, mostly because there is a lot of value there; the TSX is trading 20% above a year ago, plus the Can$ is trading high vs. US$. Lots of reasons why I am in the US right now, but do you have a point to make about that?

So you have at most ~15% of your money in a single stock, then explain to me why you think its a good idea for a country to not pursue a similar strategy. See the above post below yours for details.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Martin
So you have at most ~15% of your money in a single stock, then explain to me why you think its a good idea for a country to not pursue a similar strategy. See the above post below yours for details.

The problem with that reasoning is that Canada is not investing in the US through trade, companies are merely selling a product for a fee, the US companies are merely buying a product with more value to them in some shape or form. If we make it a political objective to push for trade with some other country, just for the sake of diversification, we are going to create a significant disadvantage for all people within our country.

Through diversification of stocks, you are assuming you can attain similar gains through other stocks, this is not true for countries as it depends on the quality, cost, delivery, services and the like. The global marketplace is the way it is for a reason; trying to force anything else would be utterly rediculous.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Martin
So you have at most ~15% of your money in a single stock, then explain to me why you think its a good idea for a country to not pursue a similar strategy. See the above post below yours for details.

The problem with that reasoning is that Canada is not investing in the US through trade, companies are merely selling a product for a fee, the US companies are merely buying a product with more value to them in some shape or form. If we make it a political objective to push for trade with some other country, just for the sake of diversification, we are going to create a significant disadvantage for all people within our country.

Through diversification of stocks, you are assuming you can attain similar gains through other stocks, this is not true for countries as it depends on the quality, cost, delivery, services and the like. The global marketplace is the way it is for a reason; trying to force anything else would be utterly rediculous.

Of course it would cost more, shipping oil to China would not be as cheap as shipping it to the US, but as they say, freedom isn't free.

 

[DarkKnight69]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Jimmah
After hearing about, eading about and generally seeing how my life is being put to sh!t from the libs, I'm defintly against them. Problem is, who can I be 'for'? Conservs are a scary bunch, NDP is the only one I can consider and thats a stretch. Probably NDP, their goals suit how I think the country should be run better than the Libs or Cons.

Personally, I think the next PM should be even more hostile to the US. Softwood lumber comes to mind why I despise the US, another would be NAFTA, and oil another. I hope for a leader whom will do more relations with the EU and less with the US. Perhaps I am just wishing though, as most likely the next election will be liberal again.

You are pretty much stupid for watching less relations with the US. We account for 85% of your trade...and you want less relations? Unbelievable...

what's that old saying about putting all your eggs in one basket? Especially if that basket belongs to a psychopath...

No offense, but the US is much more important to you than you are the US. Canada would only be a shadow of itself without the US.

Boy are you dense...

Let me explain to you, in very very simple terms.
1. People like you are arrogant, control freak assholes who hate us.
2. Because of people like you, we cannot get along.
3. Because we cannot get along, our politicians should find ways to lessen our dependence on people like you.
4. Ergo, they should pursue deeper relations with other countries in order to diminish the influence of people like you.
5. Electing politicians who won't be US poodles is the way to do that.

So are you saying my statement is wrong, or are you just mad that I said what everyone already knows?

We own the second largest oil supply in the world that has not even begun to be tapped into. Not to mention the amound of freshwater we send you.

I hate to say it, but if we shut of the ol taps of oil and water, the US government would drastically change the way they treat us. we do about 20% of your daily oil imports.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Martin
Of course it would cost more, shipping oil to China would not be as cheap as shipping it to the US, but as they say, freedom isn't free.

Unlike you I feel freedom includes free trade and not be at the mercy of a few shipping companies.

Odd how you call that "freedom"

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: ntdz
You are pretty much stupid for watching less relations with the US. We account for 85% of your trade...and you want less relations? Unbelievable...

what's that old saying about putting all your eggs in one basket? Especially if that basket belongs to a psychopath...

Martin, your post is SIG material... Bravo, compadre!

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Martin
Of course it would cost more, shipping oil to China would not be as cheap as shipping it to the US, but as they say, freedom isn't free.

Unlike you I feel freedom includes free trade and not be at the mercy of a few shipping companies.

Odd how you call that "freedom"

Odd that you'd sell your ability to make independent decisions for a few extra bucks.

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
Martin, your post is SIG material... Bravo, compadre!

I live to give

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Martin
Of course it would cost more, shipping oil to China would not be as cheap as shipping it to the US, but as they say, freedom isn't free.

Unlike you I feel freedom includes free trade and not be at the mercy of a few shipping companies.

Odd how you call that "freedom"

Odd that you'd sell your ability to make independent decisions for a few extra bucks.

The US and Canada are in a free trade agreement, the independent decision has already been made, it wasn't mine, or my country's decision to make.

I don't understand how you want to create freedom by altering free trade.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Martin
Of course it would cost more, shipping oil to China would not be as cheap as shipping it to the US, but as they say, freedom isn't free.

Unlike you I feel freedom includes free trade and not be at the mercy of a few shipping companies.

Odd how you call that "freedom"

Odd that you'd sell your ability to make independent decisions for a few extra bucks.

The US and Canada are in a free trade agreement, the independent decision has already been made, it wasn't mine, or my country's decision to make.

I don't understand how you want to create freedom by altering free trade.

Do keep in mind that free trade with the US comes with a big asterisk at the end.

And you seem to have gotten stuck on free trade for some reason. We are talking about relations in general, and trade is just one acpect of that. I believe the government's priority should be weaning Canada off the US and makign it more independent and less doormattish.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Martin
Do keep in mind that free trade with the US comes with a big asterisk at the end.

And you seem to have gotten stuck on free trade for some reason. We are talking about relations in general, and trade is just one acpect of that. I believe the government's priority should be weaning Canada off the US and makign it more independent and less doormattish.

How is the US using us as a doormat?

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Martin
Do keep in mind that free trade with the US comes with a big asterisk at the end.

And you seem to have gotten stuck on free trade for some reason. We are talking about relations in general, and trade is just one acpect of that. I believe the government's priority should be weaning Canada off the US and makign it more independent and less doormattish.

How is the US using us as a doormat?

By expecting us to do as we're told, which manifests itself everywhere. So many diverse examples of that...
-The war in iraq.. they felt "betrayed"and now you can see what a large percentage absolutely despise canada.
-When there was talk of MJ decriminalization, the friendly neighbours threatened financial retaliatin (their talk of border delays).
-lumber dispute: every court has ruled against them, then Rice comes over here and tells us we must find a solution. I'll give you a solution, bitch, take away the tarrifs, pay back the money and play by the ****** rules.
-there is currently a case of the US seeking extradition of a person selling seeds over the net...perfectly legal activity in the US.
etc

make no mistake, with this particular administration of theirs, "closer relations" means "doing as we're told".

 

[stratman]

Back on topic folks

Last election I did what these guys are talking about:

Originally posted by: JonBarillari
Regarding: Text

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

A spoiled ballot is just that - one that can't be counted; the term JonBarillari is looking for is 'protest ballot' in which you go to the polling station, take the ballot, and immediately hand it back unfilled. Like many traditions and superstitions in every culture, this one isn't very well understood; you may simply confuse the pollster if you try it.

EDITED: Spoiled Ballot to Protest Ballot.. Thanks 3chordcharlie

Because I didn't feel comfortable supporting any of the parties with my vote.

I'm not going to spoil my ballot again this coming election, but I'm not really sure which way I'll vote yet. I'm definately not voting NDP, as my job prospects would suffer horribly should they gain power. My worry with the Conservatives is that they'd support a war-on-drugs type initiative, suck up too much to the music/movie industries to the detriment of technology/civil-liberties, and take us back to deficit spending. The Liberals? Well, there is the whole sponsership scandle, which was pretty messed up.

If I were to vote tomorrow I'd probably vote Liberal.

 

[desy]

Look what I miss in the evening

Actually my buddy and I have discussed this at length what we want is another minority gov't with the Liberals in charge. This will force Harper to step down and get another Conservative leader. Its not that I think Harper incapable or crazy. he just doesn't have the charisma to woo over Eastern Canada. Then we can overturn the gov't again with somebody new in charge and we don't have to wait 5 yrs.
If the Conservatives want somebody to win its going to have to be somebody from Eastern Canada leading to shed off the image of the Conservatives as a Western protest party only, at least until they establish a firm National identity again.

All this bickering over free trade, overall the conscensus has been that it has been good for Canada. The largest market for goods in the world is at our back doorstep. Simple economics is going to keep this a reality for a very long time Martin. I agree we should diversify and expand our trade economy to other markets, its only smart.
Free trade has made us lazy in pursuing these markets and is one of the downsides of the agreement.