Canadian JTF 2 sniper smashes longest kill record in Iraq

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Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,487
532
126
Lol. This thread is priceless. So many computer chair warriors offering their battle experience and wisdom. My favorite is the guy who doesn't know how fast "supersonic" is, but also is a world class sniper.

I don't believe in bragging about certain things out in the open. So if you would like to PM me, we can discuss who is computer chair warrior. Perhaps compare DD214's?
 
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Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
  • "In aeronautics, transonic refers to the condition of flight in which a range of velocities of airflow exist surrounding and flowing past an air vehicle or an airfoil that are concurrently below, at, and above the speed of sound in the range of Mach0.8 to 1.0, i.e. 965–1,236 km/h (600–768 mph) at sea level. This condition depends not only on the travel speed of the craft, but also on the temperature of the airflow in the vehicle's local environment. It is formally defined as the range of speeds between the critical Mach number, when some parts of the airflow over an air vehicle or airfoil are supersonic, and a higher speed, typically near Mach 1.2, when most of the airflow is supersonic. Between these speeds some of the airflow is supersonic, but a significant fraction is not.
You said 343 was the speed of sound. I said a range of 300-400."

300/343 = .87 Mach
400/343 = 1.16 Mach

Both are squarely in the transonic zone. When I refer to "supersonic", I'm referring to the scientific term as applied to aeronautics. You are just trivially using it as a term people use "faster than sound". You're like Trump, a know nothing that likes to bloviate and tell people stories. Nice!


Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transonic

In the future, I'd like to see you avoid these topics. It's somewhat embarrassing to have to keep correcting you

This is a bullet not an airplane. The speed of sound varies, but there is a standard reference, which I provided. In fact I was very specific. You linked to the term used in aeronautics.

Oh, 1k shots isn't world class sniper territory.

An introduction into F-Class competition http://demigodllc.com/articles/introduction-to-f-class-1000-yard-competition/

1000 meters vs. 1000 yards is not hugely different.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,645
39,988
136
TAC-50 strikes again. Big fan of 'keepin it simple' here. Just think what those guys could do with a modern long distance load that shoots flatter. That new Barrett .416 is the business. Anyone know how many rounds were sent? American ammo like with Furlong, or home grown?

Both are clearly very skilled individuals, which I expect from our Canadian brothers. They are a fellow rifleman's culture, with a fine history to be proud of. I've never really appreciated the jibes some of my fellow Americans give the canucks ('Oh hey look it's their Tank!") and have had to break the word to some people about Tommy Prince and others.

So they don't have the same number of toys we do, big deal. Canada is going to be playing a bigger role in global security in the coming decades what with the New Cold War. Same with Australia. I'm glad Ottawa's attitude about keeping Canadian combat prowess under wraps has changed, building a reputation is important in that line of work. See SEALs, former Spetnaz.
 
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davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,512
24
76
Reading the headlines for this story I was immediately suspicious because at the purported distance the bullet drop would be huge. Looking at various ballistic charts for common .50 BMG loads the typical bullet drop at 2500 yards is around 450 feet. 2 miles is 3520 yards so at that distance the bullet drop would be significantly more. The shot was taken on top of a highrise so I'm guessing the 2.2 miles is the slant distance.

Anyone know exactly how high he was being on top of this high rise?
 
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Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,487
532
126
Reading the headlines for this story I was immediately suspicious because at the purported distance the bullet drop would be huge. Looking at various ballistic charts for common .50 BMG loads the typical bullet drop at 2500 yards is around 450 feet. 2 miles is 3520 yards so at that distance the bullet drop would be significantly more. The shot was taken on top of a highrise so I'm guessing the 2.2 miles is the slant distance.

Anyone know exactly how high he was being on top of this high rise?

The problem is, you're looking at the "common .50 BMG".

Ryan Cleckner, a former U.S. Army Ranger sniper who served two tours of duty in Afghanistan and wrote the authoritative “Long Range Shooting Handbook,” called the feat an “incredible” accomplishment, one that owes as much if not more to the spotter’s expertise than the shooter's skill.


The spotter would have had to successfully calculate five factors: distance, wind, atmospheric conditions and the speed of the earth’s rotation at their latitude,” Cleckner told Fox News.

“Because wind speed and direction would vary over the two miles the bullet traveled, the true challenge here was being able to calculate the actual wind speed and direction all the way to the target.”

Atmospheric conditions also would have posed a huge challenge for the spotter.

“To get the atmospheric conditions just right, the spotter would have had to understand the temperature, humidity and barometric pressure of the air the round had to travel through.

Cleckner said that while the ammunition that Canadian special forces use in the TAC-50 is “off-the-charts powerful,” with some 13,000 foot-pounds of force when it comes out of the muzzle, the speed of a bullet, a 750-grain Hornady round, is not as important as the aerodynamic efficiency of the bullet.

“The key to having a sniper round travel that far and hit a small target has less to do with speed and more to do with the efficiency with which the projectile moves through the air,” he said.

That’s because while sniper bullets exit the muzzle at several times the speed of sound they eventually slow down to less than the speed of sound, and at that point they become less stable. An efficiently designed bullet reduces that instability, he explained.

Dennis Santiago, California-based firearms expert and instructor, said the partnership between the spotter and the shooter is critical.

"Equipment is just a starting point. The shooter on a military team will surely be skilled enough to hold hard on the 'aimpoint' and fire the shot accurately," he told Fox News. "The spotter member of the sniper team is responsible for telling the shooter the precise moment the atmospherics align with the calculations they've made. When it comes together, it's 'mission accomplished'."

Long, but sheds some light. More insight on how important the spotter really is. That is not to say the shooter isn't also very important, they still have to do all the fundamentals exactly right.
 

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
911
106
Reading the headlines for this story I was immediately suspicious because at the purported distance the bullet drop would be huge. Looking at various ballistic charts for common .50 BMG loads the typical bullet drop at 2500 yards is around 450 feet. 2 miles is 3520 yards so at that distance the bullet drop would be significantly more. The shot was taken on top of a highrise so I'm guessing the 2.2 miles is the slant distance.

Anyone know exactly how high he was being on top of this high rise?

Tallest buildings in iraq.
122m for Erbil


Not very tall....

https://www.emporis.com/statistics/tallest-buildings/country/100062/iraq
 

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
911
106
This is a bullet not an airplane.

Lol. Jesus Christ man. I don't mean to make a fool out of you, ok? But.... these statements!


Sigh...


Do you think the air acts differently upon a plane, or a "flying vehicle"... than a bullet?

Think about it. Then maybe chill out on the science related stuff. I'm sure you're "elite" elsewhere.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Lol. Jesus Christ man. I don't mean to make a fool out of you, ok? But.... these statements!


Sigh...


Do you think the air acts differently upon a plane, or a "flying vehicle"... than a bullet?

Think about it. Then maybe chill out on the science related stuff. I'm sure you're "elite" elsewhere.

Definitions matter. Facts matter. Making up crap matters. What you got was the last. I guess I'm pulling wings off the metaphorical fly, but you didn't know about the lethality of the round, conditions of visibility in Iraq, how velocities are discussed among the educated, You brought up Baghdad Bob in some bizarre context because the kill was recorded by the team? Who knows?

Experts in the field are calling the shot remarkable and it is, but you are the only one I know who without the first idea of the contextual reality is inventing reasons that anyone could debunk with little effort.

Even though you have an incomprehensible need to resort to bad facts and reasoning to demonstrate this didn't happen, it did.

Why you think it must not is beyond rationality and so I leave you with your own problem. You were wrong. You can man up or pull a Trump and defend the ridiculous.

Let's see what happens next.
 
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Reactions: stormkroe
Jan 25, 2011
16,687
8,886
146
My god some people have to try to discredit anything and everything. This isn't some couch warrior here claiming he did the impossible at the range. This is a JTF 2 sniper. These guys are considered elite by every measure. They were the weapon of choice in Afghanistan by US Commanders.

And you want to claim they made this whole thing up? Video evidence and all? Really?
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
70,157
28,800
136
My god some people have to try to discredit anything and everything. This isn't some couch warrior here claiming he did the impossible at the range. This is a JTF 2 sniper. These guys are considered elite by every measure. They were the weapon of choice in Afghanistan by US Commanders.

And you want to claim they made this whole thing up? Video evidence and all? Really?
FIVR is a Russian. His job is to stir the shit in any manner he can think of.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
I don't know whether this is legit or not, but FIVR has a point. The current record for a mile run is I think about 3:40. If someone purportedly ran it in 2:30 I think people would be skeptical. How do we see one at that much longer of a range than the previous record without ever seeing any in between? There must have been tremendous luck here, not least of which was the target not moving during the 10 second travel time.

That reminds me of another Canadian who didn't understand what was possible

How a 13-year-old Canadian girl ran the world’s fastest marathon

Two minutes after the race, a doctor declared that her heart rate had already returned to normal, and added, “she appeared less tired than most men in the race.”

http://www.cbc.ca/sportslongform/en...canadian-girl-ran-the-worlds-fastest-marathon
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
6,338
1,215
126
In 1969 Trump used his bone spur to drop kick a Vietnamese man out of his market in Manhattan, earning the Purple Heart for tremendous valour!

Nothing compared to the way Hillary dodged sniper bullets on her way to greet the flower girl and when Obama community organized his way to the CMH.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,645
39,988
136
The problem is, you're looking at the "common .50 BMG".

Agreed - exactly what type really makes a difference, which is magnified by range. Rob Furlong cut his bread with an American load because he and his spotter had run out of their Canadian loads the way I remember it. Different projectile, slightly different powder recipe. They thought it shot better at altitude, less arc. Want to say he got his record target on the 3rd try but I may be wrong.
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,512
24
76
The problem is, you're looking at the "common .50 BMG".

Not a problem at all. We don't know the exact ballistics for the cartridge used to make this shot so pulling numbers from a ballistic chart for the common military spec ball cartridge is a good starting point.

The article you quoted in the same post explains factory loaded, COMMON, off the shelf ammo was used!

At 2000 yards velocity has dropped by 2/3rds or 1000 fps. One could then guess at 3520 yards the velocity being in the 200-400 fps range give or take.

At 2000 yards the M33 Ball cartridge has a bullet drop of around 250 inches. At the record distance of 3520 yards one could imagine what the drop is.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,118
30,070
146
Definitions matter. Facts matter. Making up crap matters. What you got was the last. I guess I'm pulling wings off the metaphorical fly, but you didn't know about the lethality of the round, conditions of visibility in Iraq, how velocities are discussed among the educated, You brought up Baghdad Bob in some bizarre context because the kill was recorded by the team? Who knows?

But what I really want FIVR to tell me is if the heat from a jet fuel fire can melt steel!
 
Reactions: davmat787

J.Wilkins

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2017
2,681
640
91
Not surprised in the least that it was a team from the Canadian JTF that did that.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
But what I really want FIVR to tell me is if the heat from a jet fuel fire can melt steel!

“I’ve been reading about it for the last couple of months about the seriousness of the horribleness of the situation with surveillance all over the place,”

Just as relevant in our lifetime
 
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