Canadian Mounties taser 82 year old in hospital bed while connected to oxygen.

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Chiropteran

Originally posted by: bignateyk
An 82 year old dude with heart and breathing problems lived through getting tazed 3 times? I think that ends the debate about lethality.

Please. I'm sure given enough time anyone could dig up an article about a senior citizen surviving a gunshot wound, it doesn't prove guns aren't lethal.

Umm, that's VERY different. The lethality of guns varies greatly depending on where you get shot. The taser has a systemic effect, where pretty much your whole body tenses up. IF this effect is enough to cause organ failure in more than a few freak accidents (as anti-taser people claim), then it should be much more lethal on people whose systems are already weakened, particularly if they get hit multiple times (which will stress out their system even more).

I'm not saying that tasers are 100% safe or making any claims about whether they are overused, but clearly they're not "ban-me-now" dangerous.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: Chiropteran

Originally posted by: bignateyk
An 82 year old dude with heart and breathing problems lived through getting tazed 3 times? I think that ends the debate about lethality.

Please. I'm sure given enough time anyone could dig up an article about a senior citizen surviving a gunshot wound, it doesn't prove guns aren't lethal.

Umm, that's VERY different. The lethality of guns varies greatly depending on where you get shot. The taser has a systemic effect, where pretty much your whole body tenses up. IF this effect is enough to cause organ failure in more than a few freak accidents (as anti-taser people claim), then it should be much more lethal on people whose systems are already weakened, particularly if they get hit multiple times (which will stress out their system even more).

I'm not saying that tasers are 100% safe or making any claims about whether they are overused, but clearly they're not "ban-me-now" dangerous.

Actually they are. Too many people who shouldn't have died, did. Too many people who shouldn't have been Tazered, were.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: Chiropteran

Originally posted by: bignateyk
An 82 year old dude with heart and breathing problems lived through getting tazed 3 times? I think that ends the debate about lethality.

Please. I'm sure given enough time anyone could dig up an article about a senior citizen surviving a gunshot wound, it doesn't prove guns aren't lethal.

Umm, that's VERY different. The lethality of guns varies greatly depending on where you get shot. The taser has a systemic effect, where pretty much your whole body tenses up. IF this effect is enough to cause organ failure in more than a few freak accidents (as anti-taser people claim), then it should be much more lethal on people whose systems are already weakened, particularly if they get hit multiple times (which will stress out their system even more).

I'm not saying that tasers are 100% safe or making any claims about whether they are overused, but clearly they're not "ban-me-now" dangerous.

Actually they are. Too many people who shouldn't have died, did. Too many people who shouldn't have been Tazered, were.

So I suppose the fact that both suspect and officer injuries have gone down since Tasers were adopted is irrelevant. I still say that if they're as dangerous as some proclaim, this dude would've died.

 

[Nitemare]

Could you imagine the lulz around the campfire...

Yeah you remember Joe. He was too scared of all the negative flack he would get from tazing that senior so he reached for the knife....


Lulz, the look on his face as that geriatric old dude plunged it into his chest...ohh man that was too funny. I wish his kid could have been here....

*************************************

Could care less about the mental capacity, what decade they were born in or what. The guy had a lethal weapon and was out of his right mind. Would it have been better if they shot him?

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
Could you imagine the lulz around the campfire...

Yeah you remember Joe. He was too scared of all the negative flack he would get from tazing that senior so he reached for the knife....


Lulz, the look on his face as that geriatric old dude plunged it into his chest...ohh man that was too funny. I wish his kid could have been here....

*************************************

Could care less about the mental capacity, what decade they were born in or what. The guy had a lethal weapon and was out of his right mind. Would it have been better if they shot him?

I don't see what everyone is so upset about - there was the possibility of serious injury or death, and all parties emerged unharmed. It's a win-win..

 

[KeithTalent]

They should have just turned off his oxygen until he passed out.

KT

 

[Chiropteran]

Originally posted by: JLee
So I suppose the fact that both suspect and officer injuries have gone down since Tasers were adopted is irrelevant. I still say that if they're as dangerous as some proclaim, this dude would've died.

There is a difference between "dangerous as some proclaim" and there being no debate about the device's lethality.

I don't think tasers are some horrible invention, and I think they serve a purpose. But trying to argue that because of this one case they are definitively non-lethal is just naive. A data set of *one* doesn't really have any statistical weight. There are too many variables. Maybe the cops in this case used a particularly weak stun gun. Maybe the battery was low. Maybe the guy just got lucky. Maybe the hospital bed grounded him and saved his life. Who knows?

If you think this one example is enough proof that tasers are non-lethal, then check this out, a bullet between the eyes isn't lethal either! A singular freak occurrence isn't definitive proof of anything.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: Chiropteran

Originally posted by: JLee
So I suppose the fact that both suspect and officer injuries have gone down since Tasers were adopted is irrelevant. I still say that if they're as dangerous as some proclaim, this dude would've died.

There is a difference between "dangerous as some proclaim" and there being no debate about the device's lethality.

I don't think tasers are some horrible invention, and I think they serve a purpose. But trying to argue that because of this one case they are definitively non-lethal is just naive. A data set of *one* doesn't really have any statistical weight. There are too many variables. Maybe the cops in this case used a particularly weak stun gun. Maybe the battery was low. Maybe the guy just got lucky. Maybe the hospital bed grounded him and saved his life. Who knows?

If you think this one example is enough proof that tasers are non-lethal, then check this out, a bullet between the eyes isn't lethal either! A singular freak occurrence isn't definitive proof of anything.

I did not say they're definitively non-lethal - and how is this a "single freak ocurrance"!? Do you have any idea how many times Tasers are deployed and don't make the news?

By the way- we have much more than a data set of one. How many officers have been killed during Taser qualification? Answer that, and get back to me.

Oh...Tasers don't operate at a 'reduced level' with a low battery. They're not exactly on the 'WalMart flashlight' level of technology.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: Chiropteran

Originally posted by: bignateyk
An 82 year old dude with heart and breathing problems lived through getting tazed 3 times? I think that ends the debate about lethality.

Please. I'm sure given enough time anyone could dig up an article about a senior citizen surviving a gunshot wound, it doesn't prove guns aren't lethal.

Umm, that's VERY different. The lethality of guns varies greatly depending on where you get shot. The taser has a systemic effect, where pretty much your whole body tenses up. IF this effect is enough to cause organ failure in more than a few freak accidents (as anti-taser people claim), then it should be much more lethal on people whose systems are already weakened, particularly if they get hit multiple times (which will stress out their system even more).

I'm not saying that tasers are 100% safe or making any claims about whether they are overused, but clearly they're not "ban-me-now" dangerous.

Actually they are. Too many people who shouldn't have died, did. Too many people who shouldn't have been Tazered, were.

So I suppose the fact that both suspect and officer injuries have gone down since Tasers were adopted is irrelevant. I still say that if they're as dangerous as some proclaim, this dude would've died.

You a DR now? You can't say his dude would have died or that other dude wouldn't have died. Fact is, many have died. Another fact is that too many times Tazers were used when they were unnecessary.

 

[HannibalX]

Originally posted by: JLee
So if an 82yo dude hooked up to oxygen lived through it, apparently they're not as lethal as some people make them out to be..

ZING!

 

[dabuddha]

Originally posted by: ForumMaster
anyone smell a lawsuit? but why did he have a knife?

planted!

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: sandorski Fact is, many have died. Another fact is that too many times Tazers were used when they were unnecessary.

Tasers are slightly more dangerous than pepper spray, and quite a bit less dangerous than billy clubs.

What do you expect them to use? Harsh language?

Statistically speaking, twice as many people die from bee stings every year* than die from tasers**, and that's assuming that all the taser deaths were 100% the fault of the taser and didn't have anything to do with drugs*** or other issues which aggravate the situation.


*Source: Wilderness Medical Society. An average of 177 fatalities per year occur from both venomous and non-venomous animals, 27.4% of which are from hornets, bees, and wasps.

**Source: Amnesty International. Since June 2001, 152 people have died in the US after being shot with tasers, most of which were subject to multiple or prolonged shocks. In 23 cases the coroner listed the use of the taser as a cause or contributory factor in death, and in 3 cases in '05 the taser was listed as a primary cause of death.

***Source: Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine.
Patients with agitated delirium in the setting of a simulant-induced psychosis commonly die while they are being subdued and restrained, whether they have been tazed or not

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: sandorski Fact is, many have died. Another fact is that too many times Tazers were used when they were unnecessary.

Tasers are slightly more dangerous than pepper spray, and quite a bit less dangerous than billy clubs.

What do you expect them to use? Harsh language?

Statistically speaking, twice as many people die from bee stings every year* than die from tasers**, and that's assuming that all the taser deaths were 100% the fault of the taser and didn't have anything to do with drugs*** or other issues which aggravate the situation.


*Source: Wilderness Medical Society. An average of 177 fatalities per year occur from both venomous and non-venomous animals, 27.4% of which are from hornets, bees, and wasps.

**Source: Amnesty International. Since June 2001, 152 people have died in the US after being shot with tasers, most of which were subject to multiple or prolonged shocks. In 23 cases the coroner listed the use of the taser as a cause or contributory factor in death, and in 3 cases in '05 the taser was listed as a primary cause of death.

***Source: Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine.
Patients with agitated delirium in the setting of a simulant-induced psychosis commonly die while they are being subdued and restrained, whether they have been tazed or not

Nonsense! You're comparisons are invalid, unless you want to Ban Bees. Tazers are a new addition to arsenals and have killed, when they were not supposed to kill at all.

 

[sdifox]

The tank was at the east coast so the mounties had no choice but to use the tasers.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: Agentbolt

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: JLee
So if an 82yo dude hooked up to oxygen lived through it, apparently they're not as lethal as some people make them out to be..

true..but this does prove what many have been arguing. that cops go to them far to fast instead of trying to deal with the situation.

WHAT???

The man was brandishing a deadly weapon. I don't care who you are if you pull a knife on me I am not rushing you just to appease people. My life and health is worth more to me than people's whining.

How many people with knives are you willing to rush for a low paying public servant job???

How about instead of rushing him OR tazing him, you simply stay back and let him tire himself out, genius? He was hooked up to an oxygen machine recovering from pneumonia, what the fuck was he going to do?

Just hang back and try to talk him down. If he tries to get up or something, THEN taze him. This was ridiculous.

Well that's the problem isn't it. Equipping officers with tasers gives them unprecedented authority to deploy them... and almost every situation can be justified or whatever nowadays. While tasers may statistically help with safety or whatever people want to say (and I won't argue this), I think everyone has to agree that negotiation and having to deal reasonably with irascible people has gone down. The taser almost frees the officer of having to think, talk, and act like a human being because there's a 1 button solution to it all (the trigger of a taser). No, you don't have to talk people down anymore. You don't need to threaten and talk sense into people. All you gotta do is just go "fvck it, I'm just gonna tase you and bam, my job is done." It's kinda stupid to me.

 

[CanOWorms]

The Queen's minions doing her dirty work. God bless the Queen.

 

[BrokenVisage]

Mandelbaum! Mandelbaum! Mandelbaum!

 

[dennilfloss]

Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy

Originally posted by: bignateyk
I bet it makes the "Dont taze me bro" guy feel like a giant gaping pussy.

What revolting imagery. Well played.

Hey now! I've seen dozens of adult movies that could use this title and they were not revolting.:laugh:

 

[Ruptga]

Originally posted by: sdifox
The tank was at the east coast so the mounties had no choice but to use the tasers.

:laugh:

 

[Dessert Tears]

CBCNews.ca article: RCMP subdue hospitalized man, 82, with Taser; slightly longer and with links to video interview

Most of the links on Google fail to mention the knife in their headlines.

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: bignateyk
An 82 year old dude with heart and breathing problems lived through getting tazed 3 times? I think that ends the debate about lethality.

Well, he was in a HOSPITAL.

Doesn't make you less likely to die...you just get help quicker. If he went into cardiac arrest, I'm quite sure it would be in the headline.

I agree with JLee, if the patient had gone into ventricular fibrillation (VF), the news coverage would have mentioned it.

Originally posted by: waggy
true..but this does prove what many have been arguing. that cops go to them far to fast instead of trying to deal with the situation.

Do you believe that the article provides enough information to make a judgment on that?

Originally posted by: ADDAvenger
All the same, I wonder if anyone realized they're in a hospital and just might be able to tranquilize the guy, or turn off his oxygen until he passes out. Nah, that sounds too much like original thought, can't have any of that from an official institution you know.

Originally posted by: KeithTalent
They should have just turned off his oxygen until he passed out.

• Wouldn't removing the patient's medically-necessary oxygen have a chance of killing him?
• Sedatives administered intravenously take time to become effective. Furthermore, the IV port is on the patient's body, typically in the arm. Medical staff do not normally stick syringes into IV bags.

One may reasonably assume that the hospital staff had cause not to attempt either method.

Originally posted by: Agentbolt
How about instead of rushing him OR tazing him, you simply stay back and let him tire himself out, genius? He was hooked up to an oxygen machine recovering from pneumonia, what the fuck was he going to do?

Just hang back and try to talk him down. If he tries to get up or something, THEN taze him. This was ridiculous.

The patient was capable of harming himself. Was he likely to do so? Did the officers favor expediency and say, "OK, get him because we got more important work to do on the street tonight"? Keep in mind that the patient was delusional (according to the nurses and his own account) and that he cannot explain why he refused to drop the knife.

 

[ranmaniac]

Why can't they just use a tranquilizer dart? Escaped zoo animals get better treatment, lol.

 

[Ruptga]

Originally posted by: ranmaniac
Why can't they just use a tranquilizer dart? Escaped zoo animals get better treatment, lol.

That's actually what I was thinking, as opposed to rushing him with a syringe. But to be fair, I doubt tranq darts are standard equipment in most hospitals' storerooms. Maybe the mounties should have swung by a vet on their way in

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Tranq darts depress respiration and heart rate. Want to do that to a 82 year old man who has breathing and heart problems?

 

[Ruptga]

Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Tranq darts depress respiration and heart rate. Want to do that to a 82 year old man who has breathing and heart problems?

And what do you think tazers do? They don't exactly tickle you into submission.

Edit: apparantly my sarcasm was lost on you, I'm not being completely serious in here, hence the

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I bet that would have been a nasty sporking.