Canadian Mounties taser 82 year old in hospital bed while connected to oxygen.

[jlee]

Originally posted by: tenshodo13

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: bignateyk
An 82 year old dude with heart and breathing problems lived through getting tazed 3 times? I think that ends the debate about lethality.

that wasn't the debate though...were you joking or retarded?

The main debate is while many people can take a blast or more from a taser, a decent amount of the population are sensititive to it and can be killed. The second half of this is the police are not using due diligience to use the weapon but rather just deploying it's force thinking it's harmless.

A taser should only be used in situations were other methods were exhausted and the level of force needed is equivalent to when one would use their nightstick/baton, but prior to having to shoot to kill.

Too many cops are freaking slobs today though and cannot defend themselves much at all without weapons.

Should have given the old guy the old one two?

Apparently, even though it has been documented that injuries are less frequent when a Taser is deployed, vs not..

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: ranmaniac
Why can't they just use a tranquilizer dart? Escaped zoo animals get better treatment, lol.

tranq are actually quite tricky. Much bigger risk than taser.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: bignateyk
An 82 year old dude with heart and breathing problems lived through getting tazed 3 times? I think that ends the debate about lethality.

that wasn't the debate though...were you joking or retarded?

The main debate is while many people can take a blast or more from a taser, a decent amount of the population are sensititive to it and can be killed. The second half of this is the police are not using due diligience to use the weapon but rather just deploying it's force thinking it's harmless.

A taser should only be used in situations were other methods were exhausted and the level of force needed is equivalent to when one would use their nightstick/baton, but prior to having to shoot to kill.

Too many cops are freaking slobs today though and cannot defend themselves much at all without weapons.

"a decent amount of the population are sensititive to it and can be killed."

Do you have ANYTHING to back that statement up? Besides the very rare circumstances where someone has actually been killed specifically by a taser?

2 month sample---9 deaths

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: bignateyk
An 82 year old dude with heart and breathing problems lived through getting tazed 3 times? I think that ends the debate about lethality.

that wasn't the debate though...were you joking or retarded?

The main debate is while many people can take a blast or more from a taser, a decent amount of the population are sensititive to it and can be killed. The second half of this is the police are not using due diligience to use the weapon but rather just deploying it's force thinking it's harmless.

A taser should only be used in situations were other methods were exhausted and the level of force needed is equivalent to when one would use their nightstick/baton, but prior to having to shoot to kill.

Too many cops are freaking slobs today though and cannot defend themselves much at all without weapons.

"a decent amount of the population are sensititive to it and can be killed."

Do you have ANYTHING to back that statement up? Besides the very rare circumstances where someone has actually been killed specifically by a taser?

2 month sample---9 deaths

Those are deaths after being Tased. Was the Taser listed as the cause of death in all conditions? Have you ever heard of excited delirium?

Provide a reputable source, and we'll have something to talk about.

http://www.taser.com/research/...es/GeneralStudies.aspx <- read that.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: bignateyk
An 82 year old dude with heart and breathing problems lived through getting tazed 3 times? I think that ends the debate about lethality.

that wasn't the debate though...were you joking or retarded?

The main debate is while many people can take a blast or more from a taser, a decent amount of the population are sensititive to it and can be killed. The second half of this is the police are not using due diligience to use the weapon but rather just deploying it's force thinking it's harmless.

A taser should only be used in situations were other methods were exhausted and the level of force needed is equivalent to when one would use their nightstick/baton, but prior to having to shoot to kill.

Too many cops are freaking slobs today though and cannot defend themselves much at all without weapons.

"a decent amount of the population are sensititive to it and can be killed."

Do you have ANYTHING to back that statement up? Besides the very rare circumstances where someone has actually been killed specifically by a taser?

2 month sample---9 deaths

Those are deaths after being Tased. Was the Taser listed as the cause of death in all conditions? Have you ever heard of excited delirium?

Provide a reputable source, and we'll have something to talk about.

http://www.taser.com/research/...es/GeneralStudies.aspx <- read that.

You provide a reliable source.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: sandorski


2 month sample---9 deaths

Sammy Baker - Quitman, Georgia - Oct. 1, 2007
Veteran Sammy Baker, 59, was Tased by an officer outside a convenience store in Quitman, Georgia, causing him to fall to the ground. The fall caused Baker to dislocate and fracture his spinal cord and ended in his death.

The guy fell and fractured his spinal cord from being tased, he did not die from the taser.

Quilem Registre - Montreal, Canada - Oct. 17, 2007
Registre, 38, was Tased on Oct. 14 during a traffic stop. Police say he was intoxicated and aggressive and that they used the Taser in order to subdue him. He went to the hospital in critical condition and died three days later

Doesn't say what he died from, that's kind of important don't ya think?

arrel Gray - Frederick, Maryland - Nov. 18, 2007
Police responded to a fight between four people in an apartment complex in Frederick, Maryland. Gray, 20, was Tased and fell unconscious. He was taken to the hospital were he was pronounced dead

Again, what is the cause of death?

Christian Allen - Jacksonville, Florida - Nov. 18, 2007
Allen was pulled over by police for playing music too loud in his truck. Allen reportedly shoved an officer before he and his passenger ran away. He was Tased after a struggle with the officers. He went into cardiac arrest and died

What caused the cardiac arrest? Notice that he was tased AFTER a struggle, that hardly proves that Police are too quick to use their taser and afraid of getting hands on with someone.

Jesse Saenz - Albuquerque, New Mexico - Nov. 18, 2007
Police say 20-year-old Jesse Saenz struggled with officers and that they had no choice but to Tase him. They say they Tased him only once. However, a witness says there was no struggle and that the police Tased Saenz for about five minutes. Saenz was transported to the county detention center where he died

Again, what is the cause of death?

Unidentifed Man - Jacksonville, Florida - Nov. 20. 2007
A man whose identity has not been released fled the scene of a car crash and tried to break into a nearby home. The man reportedly fought with the officer and tried to bite him. The officer Tased him three times. He was pronounced dead at the hospital.

Again, what is the cause of death?

Howard Hyde - Halifax, Nova Scotia - Nov. 22, 2007
Hyde, a paranoid schizophrenic who had gone off his medication, was Tased by police during booking after they said he became unruly. He died a day later.

Again, what is the cause of death?

Robert Knipstrom - British Columbia, Canada - Nov. 24, 2007
The 36-year-old British Columbia resident died in the hospital four days after being Tased, pepper sprayed, and beaten with batons by Canadian police after acting agitated and combative in a store.

Again, what was the cause of death?

Well, after seeing where you get your anti Police propaganda, I can see why you always seem so unimformed when it comes to Police procedures and policies.

Edit - I think I might have missed one, but same as the others, what's the cause of death?

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: bignateyk
An 82 year old dude with heart and breathing problems lived through getting tazed 3 times? I think that ends the debate about lethality.

that wasn't the debate though...were you joking or retarded?

The main debate is while many people can take a blast or more from a taser, a decent amount of the population are sensititive to it and can be killed. The second half of this is the police are not using due diligience to use the weapon but rather just deploying it's force thinking it's harmless.

A taser should only be used in situations were other methods were exhausted and the level of force needed is equivalent to when one would use their nightstick/baton, but prior to having to shoot to kill.

Too many cops are freaking slobs today though and cannot defend themselves much at all without weapons.

"a decent amount of the population are sensititive to it and can be killed."

Do you have ANYTHING to back that statement up? Besides the very rare circumstances where someone has actually been killed specifically by a taser?

2 month sample---9 deaths

Those are deaths after being Tased. Was the Taser listed as the cause of death in all conditions? Have you ever heard of excited delirium?

Provide a reputable source, and we'll have something to talk about.

http://www.taser.com/research/...es/GeneralStudies.aspx <- read that.

You provide a reliable source.

Jeffrey D. Ho, MD, Emergency Medicine News 02/08

Chistian Sloan, MD & Gary Vilke, MD, Emergency Medicine News. 02/08

James R. Roberts, MD, Emergency Medicine News. 02/08

Impact of conducted electrical weapons in a mentally ill population: a brief report. Jeffrey D. Ho MD, Donald M. Dawes MD, Mark A. Johnson BS, Erik J. Lundin, and James R. Miner MD, The American Journal of Emergency Medicine, Volume 25, Issue 7, September 2007, pages 780-1785.

Cardiac Current Density Distribution by Electrical Pulses from TASER devices Kroll MW, McDaniel W, Panescu D, Stratbucker RA., Conf Proc IEEE Eng Med Biol Soc. 2006;1(1):6305-6307

Finite Element Modeling of Electric Field Effects of TASER Devices on Nerve and Muscle. Efimov IR, Kroll MW, Panescu D, Sweeney JD. Conf Proc IEEE Eng Med Biol Soc. 2006;1(1):1277-1279 of TASER Devices on Nerve and Muscle


....you were saying?

 

[NikolaeVarius]

I can just see the headlines now, 82 year old man in critical condition after Cop attempted to subdue him by hand. Cop suffers knife wounds and is in also in critical condition. Public Outrage over why tasers were not usd to peacefully and harmlessly subdue him/.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: sandorski


2 month sample---9 deaths

Sammy Baker - Quitman, Georgia - Oct. 1, 2007
Veteran Sammy Baker, 59, was Tased by an officer outside a convenience store in Quitman, Georgia, causing him to fall to the ground. The fall caused Baker to dislocate and fracture his spinal cord and ended in his death.

The guy fell and fractured his spinal cord from being tased, he did not die from the taser.

Quilem Registre - Montreal, Canada - Oct. 17, 2007
Registre, 38, was Tased on Oct. 14 during a traffic stop. Police say he was intoxicated and aggressive and that they used the Taser in order to subdue him. He went to the hospital in critical condition and died three days later

Doesn't say what he died from, that's kind of important don't ya think?

arrel Gray - Frederick, Maryland - Nov. 18, 2007
Police responded to a fight between four people in an apartment complex in Frederick, Maryland. Gray, 20, was Tased and fell unconscious. He was taken to the hospital were he was pronounced dead

Again, what is the cause of death?

Christian Allen - Jacksonville, Florida - Nov. 18, 2007
Allen was pulled over by police for playing music too loud in his truck. Allen reportedly shoved an officer before he and his passenger ran away. He was Tased after a struggle with the officers. He went into cardiac arrest and died

What caused the cardiac arrest? Notice that he was tased AFTER a struggle, that hardly proves that Police are too quick to use their taser and afraid of getting hands on with someone.

Jesse Saenz - Albuquerque, New Mexico - Nov. 18, 2007
Police say 20-year-old Jesse Saenz struggled with officers and that they had no choice but to Tase him. They say they Tased him only once. However, a witness says there was no struggle and that the police Tased Saenz for about five minutes. Saenz was transported to the county detention center where he died

Again, what is the cause of death?

Unidentifed Man - Jacksonville, Florida - Nov. 20. 2007
A man whose identity has not been released fled the scene of a car crash and tried to break into a nearby home. The man reportedly fought with the officer and tried to bite him. The officer Tased him three times. He was pronounced dead at the hospital.

Again, what is the cause of death?

Howard Hyde - Halifax, Nova Scotia - Nov. 22, 2007
Hyde, a paranoid schizophrenic who had gone off his medication, was Tased by police during booking after they said he became unruly. He died a day later.

Again, what is the cause of death?

Robert Knipstrom - British Columbia, Canada - Nov. 24, 2007
The 36-year-old British Columbia resident died in the hospital four days after being Tased, pepper sprayed, and beaten with batons by Canadian police after acting agitated and combative in a store.

Again, what was the cause of death?

Well, after seeing where you get your anti Police propaganda, I can see why you always seem so unimformed when it comes to Police procedures and policies.

Edit - I think I might have missed one, but same as the others, what's the cause of death?

Just a quick Google, never been to that site before. So your response is simply "What caused the death?". Figures. :roll:

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Just a quick Google, never been to that site before. So your response is simply "What caused the death?". Figures. :roll:

Well, that is the question here, which you conveniently did not answer.

 

[Agentbolt]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: sandorski


2 month sample---9 deaths

Sammy Baker - Quitman, Georgia - Oct. 1, 2007
Veteran Sammy Baker, 59, was Tased by an officer outside a convenience store in Quitman, Georgia, causing him to fall to the ground. The fall caused Baker to dislocate and fracture his spinal cord and ended in his death.

The guy fell and fractured his spinal cord from being tased, he did not die from the taser.

Quilem Registre - Montreal, Canada - Oct. 17, 2007
Registre, 38, was Tased on Oct. 14 during a traffic stop. Police say he was intoxicated and aggressive and that they used the Taser in order to subdue him. He went to the hospital in critical condition and died three days later

Doesn't say what he died from, that's kind of important don't ya think?

arrel Gray - Frederick, Maryland - Nov. 18, 2007
Police responded to a fight between four people in an apartment complex in Frederick, Maryland. Gray, 20, was Tased and fell unconscious. He was taken to the hospital were he was pronounced dead

Again, what is the cause of death?

Christian Allen - Jacksonville, Florida - Nov. 18, 2007
Allen was pulled over by police for playing music too loud in his truck. Allen reportedly shoved an officer before he and his passenger ran away. He was Tased after a struggle with the officers. He went into cardiac arrest and died

What caused the cardiac arrest? Notice that he was tased AFTER a struggle, that hardly proves that Police are too quick to use their taser and afraid of getting hands on with someone.

Jesse Saenz - Albuquerque, New Mexico - Nov. 18, 2007
Police say 20-year-old Jesse Saenz struggled with officers and that they had no choice but to Tase him. They say they Tased him only once. However, a witness says there was no struggle and that the police Tased Saenz for about five minutes. Saenz was transported to the county detention center where he died

Again, what is the cause of death?

Unidentifed Man - Jacksonville, Florida - Nov. 20. 2007
A man whose identity has not been released fled the scene of a car crash and tried to break into a nearby home. The man reportedly fought with the officer and tried to bite him. The officer Tased him three times. He was pronounced dead at the hospital.

Again, what is the cause of death?

Howard Hyde - Halifax, Nova Scotia - Nov. 22, 2007
Hyde, a paranoid schizophrenic who had gone off his medication, was Tased by police during booking after they said he became unruly. He died a day later.

Again, what is the cause of death?

Robert Knipstrom - British Columbia, Canada - Nov. 24, 2007
The 36-year-old British Columbia resident died in the hospital four days after being Tased, pepper sprayed, and beaten with batons by Canadian police after acting agitated and combative in a store.

Again, what was the cause of death?

Well, after seeing where you get your anti Police propaganda, I can see why you always seem so unimformed when it comes to Police procedures and policies.

Edit - I think I might have missed one, but same as the others, what's the cause of death?

What, what a compelling counter argument. They all died from fairies with laser beams, I'm assuming? Jesus, I was done with this thread but you've just covered yourself in glory with this post, JD50. Your first example, the Taser directly contributed to the guy's death. I don't even know how you thought you were going to get away with that one. That's like arguing "Me pushing the guy off a building didn't kill him, it was him hitting the ground!" Genius.

The rest of the examples, what, because they didn't precisely spell out what caused these people to get sent to the hospital in critical condition, you're going to claim ignorance? I don't doubt you're clueless enough to not understand, but it's very clear that in at least SOME of those cases, the Tazer either caused the death or at the very least directly contributed to it. "Person got tazed, went to hospital, three days later he died" What, you're going to claim a tree fell on them on the way to the hospital or something? Please.

You are a shining beacon of being obtuse. Please stop embarrassing yourself and come up with a counter argument that couldn't have been dreamed up by an ADD-riddled 6 year old.

 

[jlee]

"Person got handcuffed, went to hospital, three days later he died"

That's true as well, is it not? Look up excited delirium..

 

[alkemyst]

I nominate JD50 for the village idiot.

I don't think anyone can sway him that BIG MAN with the taser.

 

[Dessert Tears]

Originally posted by: alkemyst, numbered labels inserted
(1) The main debate is while many people can take a blast or more from a taser, a decent amount of the population are sensititive to it and can be killed. (2) The second half of this is the police are not using due diligience to use the weapon but rather just deploying it's force thinking it's harmless.

(2a) A taser should only be used in situations were other methods were exhausted and the level of force needed is equivalent to when one would use their nightstick/baton, but prior to having to shoot to kill.

(2b) Too many cops are freaking slobs today though and cannot defend themselves much at all without weapons.

1) Would you elaborate on "a decent amount of the population are sensititive to it and can be killed"? Feel free to provide any or all of the following:

• Quantification of "a decent amount of the population"
• Potential risk factors
• Links to sources

2a) Use-of-force continuums (continua) vary by department, but Tasers are often considered to be equivalent to pepper spray, below batons. Do you believe that individual officers often violate/bend policy, or that the policy needs revision?

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Originally posted by: TeeJay1952
He got a knife how? What size was the knife?

It was a plastic one from dinner time...

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Agentbolt


What, what a compelling counter argument. They all died from fairies with laser beams, I'm assuming? Jesus, I was done with this thread but you've just covered yourself in glory with this post, JD50. Your first example, the Taser directly contributed to the guy's death. I don't even know how you thought you were going to get away with that one. That's like arguing "Me pushing the guy off a building didn't kill him, it was him hitting the ground!" Genius.

The topic at hand is that tasers kill a decent amount of the population and shouldn't be used because other methods are less lethal. Now, you tell me, if someone died because they were tased and fell to the ground, how well do you think they would have fared if they were pepper sprayed and fell to the ground, if they were hit with an ASP and fell to the ground, or if they were tackled and then handcuffed? That example does absolutey nothing to show that tasers are more dangerous than other methods. I asked Sandorski for examples of people dying specifically from being tased, as in, the taser itself caused the death.

The rest of the examples, what, because they didn't precisely spell out what caused these people to get sent to the hospital in critical condition, you're going to claim ignorance? I don't doubt you're clueless enough to not understand, but it's very clear that in at least SOME of those cases, the Tazer either caused the death or at the very least directly contributed to it. "Person got tazed, went to hospital, three days later he died" What, you're going to claim a tree fell on them on the way to the hospital or something? Please.

Again, you're missing the point. Just because a taser was used to effect the arrest does not mean that the person died solely from being tased. Isn't that your whole argument? That tasers should not be used because they are too dangerous and other methods should be used, such as hand to hand, batons, and pepper spray? Well then it's kind of silly to present examples of people dying after they were arrested, and not even give the cause of death.

People get in fights with the Cops and have heart attacks, tased or not, it has nothing to do with the taser itself, it has to do with fighting with the Cops.

You are a shining beacon of being obtuse. Please stop embarrassing yourself and come up with a counter argument that couldn't have been dreamed up by an ADD-riddled 6 year old.

Your insults are cute, but I'll stick with the facts, thanks. When you're ready to show some proof of the claims that "a decent amount of the population are sensitive to it and can be killed", showing that a taser, and a taser alone, kills a large amount of people, get back to me.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
I nominate JD50 for the village idiot.

I don't think anyone can sway him that BIG MAN with the taser.

I don't have a taser. You can keep up with the insults, I'll be waiting for proof of your outlandish claim that "a decent amount of the population are sensititive to it (tasers) and can be killed." Since you seem to be having a problem with that, I'll try and point you in the right direction. Every year, thousands of cops are tased as part of their training. This is a perfect example of a decent amount of people being tased with no extenuating circumstances (such as the stress of fighting with the Police, etc..) where I'm sure you'll be able to find a "decent amount" of deaths resulting from being tased.

I'll be interested to see what you can come up with because honestly I have no idea how many cops have died from being tased. Here's your chance to prove your point.

Edit - I'm not a cop either. I only did that for a few years, and I'm happily making much more money in a different career.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Just a quick Google, never been to that site before. So your response is simply "What caused the death?". Figures. :roll:

Ummm.....isn't that the whole point?

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: JD50
Edit - I'm not a cop either. I only did that for a few years, and I'm happily making much more money in a different career.

Ahh you are the guy behind the dunkin donut flavors.

gratz.

 

[Dessert Tears]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Flatscan

Originally posted by: sandorski
Fact is, many have died. Another fact is that too many times Tazers were used when they were unnecessary.

Please provide a number of deaths and link to source.

You haven't heard about the Deaths??

Originally posted by: sandorski
2 month sample---9 deaths

Thank you for providing the requested information.

Originally posted by: Agentbolt
What, what a compelling counter argument. They all died from fairies with laser beams, I'm assuming? Jesus, I was done with this thread but you've just covered yourself in glory with this post, JD50. Your first example, the Taser directly contributed to the guy's death. I don't even know how you thought you were going to get away with that one. That's like arguing "Me pushing the guy off a building didn't kill him, it was him hitting the ground!" Genius.

The rest of the examples, what, because they didn't precisely spell out what caused these people to get sent to the hospital in critical condition, you're going to claim ignorance? I don't doubt you're clueless enough to not understand, but it's very clear that in at least SOME of those cases, the Tazer either caused the death or at the very least directly contributed to it. "Person got tazed, went to hospital, three days later he died" What, you're going to claim a tree fell on them on the way to the hospital or something? Please.

In the case of Samuel "Sammy" Baker, the spinal injury (cervical spinal cord trauma) resulting from his fall is a rare cause of death (link). Unsupported falls are a known risk of Taser use, but they are not solely associated with Taser use and may result from other methods of force. Falls resulting from Taser use do not have a particular character that is associated with a higher risk of injury. The metrics used in the Bozeman study would classify Baker's death as "death from spinal injury suffered in a fall following Taser use".

The mechanism of death directly caused by Taser use is the inducing of ventricular fibrillation (VF), with death occurring immediately. There is anecdotal evidence from a recent study on pigs that arrhythmias may persist briefly (one pig died a few minutes after prolonged Taser activation was stopped). In tests, metabolic levels are affected, but they were found to be unrelated to the deaths, and return to normal eventually. The death of a subject three days later cannot be plausibly attributed to the Taser; the stress/injuries of the arrest and drugs in the subject's system are much more likely factors.

The take-away should be that of the 9 deaths listed, although Tasers were used before each of them, somewhere between 0 and 9 were contributed to or caused by the Tasers.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Flatscan

Originally posted by: alkemyst, numbered labels inserted
(1) The main debate is while many people can take a blast or more from a taser, a decent amount of the population are sensititive to it and can be killed. (2) The second half of this is the police are not using due diligience to use the weapon but rather just deploying it's force thinking it's harmless.

(2a) A taser should only be used in situations were other methods were exhausted and the level of force needed is equivalent to when one would use their nightstick/baton, but prior to having to shoot to kill.

(2b) Too many cops are freaking slobs today though and cannot defend themselves much at all without weapons.

1) Would you elaborate on "a decent amount of the population are sensititive to it and can be killed"? Feel free to provide any or all of the following:

• Quantification of "a decent amount of the population"
• Potential risk factors
• Links to sources

2a) Use-of-force continuums (continua) vary by department, but Tasers are often considered to be equivalent to pepper spray, below batons. Do you believe that individual officers often violate/bend policy, or that the policy needs revision?

You hear the news right? You read this very thread right?

That's a decent enough population for me.

I am not sure what you are looking for with your geek-like 2a above. Cops are using their tasers almost from the get go at times with people that are non-threatening.

I think you are DELUSIONAL if you are thinking it's absurd that officers violate or bend any policies.

There are about 15 on leave right now that can easily be read about via CNN doing just this. In my hometown we have 7 right now that have milked about $400k in overtime that was never worked in the last TWO years.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: JD50
Edit - I'm not a cop either. I only did that for a few years, and I'm happily making much more money in a different career.

Ahh you are the guy behind the dunkin donut flavors.

gratz.

Originally posted by: JD50
'll be interested to see what you can come up with because honestly I have no idea how many cops have died from being tased. Here's your chance to prove your point.

Still waiting.

 

[Dessert Tears]

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb

Originally posted by: TeeJay1952
He got a knife how? What size was the knife?

It was a plastic one from dinner time...

According to the CBC interview, the patient had his personal pocket knife in his hand.

 

[Agentbolt]

MY argument is not anything, because I'm not anti-taser, JD50. You're jumping to stupid conclusions. I think taser use is fine in most situations. My only contribution to this thread thus far is to point out how mind-numbingly idiotic it was to tase an 80 year old man hooked up to an oxygen machine because he started flailing around with a knife.

Usually when tasers are used there's no other option, and I'm totally fine with that. In this case, they weren't. I only picked on your response because you were seriously trying to make the claim that a taser wasn't responsible for some dude's death when he fell to the ground and broke his spine BECAUSE HE WAS TAZED. I'll agree with what flatscan appears to be saying for the other cases, it's impossible to know for sure obviously, but in at least some of the cases mentioned above, being tazed contributed to the death of the taze-ee. It's called common sense. If you're going to claim you somehow "win" this argument because the cases listed above didn't explicitly say "suspect was tazed. Suspect died unequivably due to tazing" then you're making an impossible argument and obviously don't want to have a real discussion, you just want to rush to the defense of your precious cops.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Agentbolt
MY argument is not anything, because I'm not anti-taser, JD50. You're jumping to stupid conclusions. I think taser use is fine in most situations. My only contribution to this thread thus far is to point out how mind-numbingly idiotic it was to tase an 80 year old man hooked up to an oxygen machine because he started flailing around with a knife.

We'll, I'll agree with you there, your insults directed towards me weren't much of a contribution.

Usually when tasers are used there's no other option, and I'm totally fine with that. In this case, they weren't. I only picked on your response because you were seriously trying to make the claim that a taser wasn't responsible for some dude's death when he fell to the ground and broke his spine BECAUSE HE WAS TAZED.

I thought I explained my reasoning pretty clearly, if you'd like to respond to that I'd be interested to see what you have to say.

I'll agree with what flatscan appears to be saying for the other cases, it's impossible to know for sure obviously, but in at least some of the cases mentioned above, being tazed contributed to the death of the taze-ee. It's called common sense.

I didn't say that the taser did not contribute to the deaths, I said that there was no cause of death listed, so there is no way to know if the death was caused specifically by the taser. You even agreed that Flatscan explained it rather well, yet you're still arguing against what he just laid out very clearly for you. The argument has been that tasers are more dangerous than other non-lethal methods, and the examples that were provided did not show that. The guy that fell and broke his spine was just as likely to fall and break his spine after getting hit with an ASP as he was after getting tased. I already explained this to you.

If you're going to claim you somehow "win" this argument because the cases listed above didn't explicitly say "suspect was tazed. Suspect died unequivably due to tazing" then you're making an impossible argument and obviously don't want to have a real discussion, you just want to rush to the defense of your precious cops.

I'm not claiming that I won anything. I'm open to a discussion if people would come up with some relevant facts. It's ridiculous to say that I am the one not open to discussion when the only thing that has been brought up is anecdotal evidence and a bunch of "OMG Tasers kill people" emotional type responses.

If tasers are as dangerous as everyone makes them out to be, there should be plenty of irrefutable evidence to back that up. Start off with showing how many cops have died in training while being tased. I don't have a dog in this fight, and I don't know any more about tasers than the average person. I've never used one and never had one used on me. Cops being allowed to use tasers or not being allowed to use tasers doesn't effect me one bit. I get tired of the people that bash cops without any reason whatsoever. If you (not talking about you specifically here) have something to back it up then fine, show us, otherwise stop with the BS.