Canadian Parliament member introduce bill to remove gun registry.

[mooseracing]

Article

Ironically, the gun registry is absolutely useless in helping locate the 255,000 people who have been prohibited from owning firearms by the courts.

That piece of paper has no effect on the criminal and does nothing to prevent the misuse of a firearm.

Hopefully it passes, and maybe the U.S. would follow suit for handguns. I would like to know how much the U.S. has spent on gun registration, compared to theirs at ~$2billion over 14 yrs, as I am bettings ours is alot higher.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: mooseracing


Article

Ironically, the gun registry is absolutely useless in helping locate the 255,000 people who have been prohibited from owning firearms by the courts.

That piece of paper has no effect on the criminal and does nothing to prevent the misuse of a firearm.

Hopefully it passes, and maybe the U.S. would follow suit for handguns. I would like to know how much the U.S. has spent on gun registration, compared to theirs at ~$2billion over 14 yrs, as I am bettings ours is alot higher.

That piece of paper has no effect on the criminal and does nothing to prevent the misuse of a firearm.

people need to understand that. a piece of paper/law whatever does NOTHING to prvent the misuse of a firearm or keep it out of the hands a criminal.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Originally posted by: mooseracing


Article

Ironically, the gun registry is absolutely useless in helping locate the 255,000 people who have been prohibited from owning firearms by the courts.

That piece of paper has no effect on the criminal and does nothing to prevent the misuse of a firearm.

Hopefully it passes, and maybe the U.S. would follow suit for handguns. I would like to know how much the U.S. has spent on gun registration, compared to theirs at ~$2billion over 14 yrs, as I am bettings ours is alot higher.

The US doesn't have gun registration for title 1 firearms. Only for NFA items.

 

[StageLeft]

That whole thing has been a catastrofvck hasn't it? Just a pure and unabashed waste of money.

 

[yllus]

I would be happy to see this boondoggle fade into the past. What a waste of money.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones

The US doesn't have gun registration for title 1 firearms. Only for NFA items.

This, although some states have individual firearm registration.

 

[Arkaign]

There needs to be a permanent sticky-note of things that do_not_work or are otherwise counterproductive .. for all governments to check in on from time to time.

(1)- Prohibition of firearms.
(2)- Prohibition of alcohol.
(3)- Prohibition of drugs.
(4)- Prohibition of religion.
(5)- Prohibition of free speech.

 

[CLite]

An interesting twist, too bad this is going to degenerate into 20 pages of circular arguments in a day or so. The bait has already been laid with general badmouthing of gun control, now it just needs to be bitten and then counter-baited.

 

[desy]

Canadians are required to have a license to posess firearms and as a license holder I think its a good thing. Probably the only good thing that came of it.

Thye don't need to know what I have just that I'm a solid citizen who doesn't commit violent acts. If I commit say assault on someone then my privelage should be revoked, if I'm found in non-compliance with the law and posess firearms even though I have failed to merit it , they should shove my ass into prision.

Imagine a street thug in TO, is he going to have that HG in the trunk of his car if he's facing a few yrs in jail just merely being in possesion of it?

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Originally posted by: desy

Imagine a street thug in TO, is he going to have that HG in the trunk of his car if he's facing a few yrs in jail just merely being in possesion of it?

:roll:

Yeah that keeps them from killing people too.

 

[desy]

guns aren't a right here, a privelage, and hand guns, a restricted registered weapon since 1935.
I look at as how NY got cleaned up, harsh penalties for those who commit felonies with guns made NY a much safer city.
You'll never get ird of it all but someone who would actually face jail time for having a HG is going to think twice about walking out the door with it.
Currently the laws could be enforced much more strictly but they aren't

 

[sandorski]

It's been implemented and it was a boondogle, but now that we have it we should keep it.

 

[ZzZGuy]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones

Originally posted by: desy

Imagine a street thug in TO, is he going to have that HG in the trunk of his car if he's facing a few yrs in jail just merely being in possesion of it?

:roll:

Yeah that keeps them from killing people too.

We just so happen to have a much lower gun related crime rate in Canada (% wise) compared to the USA, we also have a problem with illegal handguns coming from the USA. Perhaps if you cracked down on hand guns (most common used in crimes) we'd have a even lower gun related crime rate. Perhaps we should secure our USA border like many want to do with the Mexican border, it'll save lives by stopping smuggling of guns with the added bonus of stopping drugs from coming in (and going out).

I'm also against the gun registry, it's just silly to have to register your M1 Grand or a hunting rifle. I'd rather target guns most often used in crimes, make it damn hard for a crook or someone selling to a crook to get a hold of said guns. Criminals will not register their weapons, a better approach is stiff penalties for those illegally possessing controlled fire arms and hard to acquire controlled guns with regulations to keep them from getting into the hands of crooks.

You can argue all you want about your right to protect yourself, but the shooter in the Virginia Tech gun shooting was mentally ill, it was documented if anyone cared to check and yet every gun he used to kill those people was legally bought. I will not take advice from a broken system. There is also the argument "everyone has a gun (especially crooks) so I should have one too", but that is because of poor gun control letting large quantities of guns often used in crimes to go unaccounted for. Right now it might be a valid argument in the USA but you've lost all control over the situation, it's not a issue for those who have not.

Then there's the "what if I get mugged?". Well, if he has a gun you're screwed, if he has a knife at least you can use self defense training. But what if you had a gun and he had a kinfe? Well if you follow the example of the USA with "everyone should be allowed to own a gun, nothing should get in the way of that", then that mugger probably won't be using a knife and you're back to having a gun pointed at your head.

Oh and the "but we need them to protect ourselves form the government", what the hell are you going to do against the most powerful military in the world, who at all times has 50% of it's armed forces at home (IIRC), who can destroy most all foreign militaries with not even the full other 50% with minimal losses. Tell me what are you going to do against a squad of well trained and well equipped soldiers with air and artillery support? Your only hope is the factions of the military to mutiny and come to your aid.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones

Originally posted by: desy

Imagine a street thug in TO, is he going to have that HG in the trunk of his car if he's facing a few yrs in jail just merely being in possesion of it?

:roll:

Yeah that keeps them from killing people too.

Most street thugs, like most citizens, have no interest whatsoever in actually killing someone. For this segment of the street thug population, guaranteed prison time woulld probably be a useful motivator.

As far as the cost of the registry, the folks who oppose it decided as soon as it was announced to obstruct it in every possible way. They are the ones who spent the billions of dollars; even with typical government waste, this project wouldn't have cost 10% of what it has any other way.

Whether the objectors were justified in their actions is a separate argument, but there's no question they are the ones who wasted the money to get what they want; now it seems like they may finally succeed.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: CLite
An interesting twist, too bad this is going to degenerate into 20 pages of circular arguments in a day or so. The bait has already been laid with general badmouthing of gun control, now it just needs to be bitten and then counter-baited.

ZzZGuy did it all in one post. Lulz.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Originally posted by: ZzZGuy

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones

Originally posted by: desy

Imagine a street thug in TO, is he going to have that HG in the trunk of his car if he's facing a few yrs in jail just merely being in possesion of it?

:roll:

Yeah that keeps them from killing people too.

We just so happen to have a much lower gun related crime rate in Canada (% wise) compared to the USA, we also have a problem with illegal handguns coming from the USA. Perhaps if you cracked down on hand guns (most common used in crimes) we'd have a even lower gun related crime rate. Perhaps we should secure our USA border like many want to do with the Mexican border, it'll save lives by stopping smuggling of guns with the added bonus of stopping drugs from coming in (and going out).

I'm also against the gun registry, it's just silly to have to register your M1 Grand or a hunting rifle. I'd rather target guns most often used in crimes, make it damn hard for a crook or someone selling to a crook to get a hold of said guns. Criminals will not register their weapons, a better approach is stiff penalties for those illegally possessing controlled fire arms and hard to acquire controlled guns with regulations to keep them from getting into the hands of crooks.

You can argue all you want about your right to protect yourself, but the shooter in the Virginia Tech gun shooting was mentally ill, it was documented if anyone cared to check and yet every gun he used to kill those people was legally bought. I will not take advice from a broken system. There is also the argument "everyone has a gun (especially crooks) so I should have one too", but that is because of poor gun control letting large quantities of guns often used in crimes to go unaccounted for. Right now it might be a valid argument in the USA but you've lost all control over the situation, it's not a issue for those who have not.

Then there's the "what if I get mugged?". Well, if he has a gun you're screwed, if he has a knife at least you can use self defense training. But what if you had a gun and he had a kinfe? Well if you follow the example of the USA with "everyone should be allowed to own a gun, nothing should get in the way of that", then that mugger probably won't be using a knife and you're back to having a gun pointed at your head.

Oh and the "but we need them to protect ourselves form the government", what the hell are you going to do against the most powerful military in the world, who at all times has 50% of it's armed forces at home (IIRC), who can destroy most all foreign militaries with not even the full other 50% with minimal losses. Tell me what are you going to do against a squad of well trained and well equipped soldiers with air and artillery support? Your only hope is the factions of the military to mutiny and come to your aid.

Whoa. All I was saying is that a thug who probably can't own a gun anyway isn't much concerned with following the law. That's why he's a thug.

 

[bobcpg]

Originally posted by: ZzZGuy
< snip >

1) "We just so happen to have a much lower gun related crime rate in Canada (% wise) compared to the USA..."

2) "Perhaps we should secure our USA border like many want to do with the Mexican border, it'll save lives by stopping smuggling of guns with the added bonus of stopping drugs from coming in (and going out)."

3) "I will not take advice from a broken system."

Don't get to pretentious, you do live in Canada BTW.

1) That is what happens when you have more freedoms.

2) Yeah, secure your border enough and the Cash Cow you call the US might not let you suckle on the nipple anymore.

3) There is a reason Canada can be so laxed, and that is largely due to the fact Canada and the US are the only countries in North America.

Not so much America Jr, more so Americas parasitic conjoined twin.

 

[Robsasman]

Originally posted by: bobcpg

Not so much America Jr, more so Americas parasitic conjoined twin.

I think it's more the other way around, you're sucking off our tit in the form of natural resources.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
As far as the cost of the registry, the folks who oppose it decided as soon as it was announced to obstruct it in every possible way. They are the ones who spent the billions of dollars; even with typical government waste, this project wouldn't have cost 10% of what it has any other way.

I was curious when I read this originally whether it was factual or not. It looks like that isn't the case.

Allan Rock's $2-billion fiasco

In response, the Canadian Taxpayers Federation launched a petition that garnered over 14,000 signatures demanding the program be audited by the Auditor General. It was, and the findings revealed astounding waste. For over 14 years, taxpayers have been soaked to the tune of no less that $2-billion.

A large part of the $2-billion was for a computer system to track registered guns. Officials initially estimated it would cost about $1-million. In 2004, documents obtained through Access to Information revealed the cost was up to $750-million. By 2006, Canada's Auditor General, Sheila Fraser, released a report revealing costs were easily over $1-billion, and even that figure covered only a few elements of the program. These costs did not include enforcement costs, compliance costs, economic costs and costs incurred by other government departments. (Other errors and unforeseen expenses included $8-million in refunds, and millions more in legal fees that mounted during court challenges.)

Despite this waste and mismanagement, no government has since succeeded in scrapping wasteful elements of the program.

Mr. Breitkreuz's bill before Parliament, Bill C-301, would accomplish a number of notable innovations to lower the excessive costs and unnecessary complexities of the Firearms Act without having any negative effect on public safety.

It would eliminate the useless long-gun registry for non-restricted firearms; authorize the Auditor General to perform a cost-benefit analysis every five years; streamline the process for "authorizations to transport" for licensed individuals; combine the possession-only licenses and possession and acquisition licenses; change the license renewal period to 10 years; and change the grandfathering dates for now-prohibi ted handguns.

The 2002 Auditor's report argues that the registry's broad focus means that the social burden associated with the regulation of high-risk gun owners now falls on duck-hunters and farmers who use their firearms for legitimate purposes. The department itself concluded that, as a result, the program had become overly complex, costly to operate, and that it had become difficult for owners to comply with the rules.