Canadian trucker protest

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Dec 10, 2005
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Warehousing companies seem to be thinking more about rail spurs more these days. Trucking has a lot of issues that predate COVID but have been made much worse by it. If the railroads move, even slightly, away from their irrational obsession with operating ratio they could recapture a big chunk of the market.

Looks like GM has already started flying some parts. You can bet they're looking at rail for anything too heavy/expensive to airlift.

Critical truck plant for their profits. Pickups are pure money making machines for American auto companies because consumers are dumb and gullible. The margins on those trucks must be huge if they can afford to charter planes for the parts.
 
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Iron Woode

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 10, 1999
31,140
12,655
136
All I have been seeing is rightwing trucker terrorism. Enough of this stupid protest.

Trudeau needs to enforce the law and stop playing games with those idiots. If that means actually bringing in the Canadian military then so be it. Who is running our country? Rightwing extremists or our elected government?

We need to stop it now. The longer this goes on the more problems there are going to be.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
50,911
42,736
136
Critical truck plant for their profits. Pickups are pure money making machines for American auto companies because consumers are dumb and gullible. The margins on those trucks must be huge if they can afford to charter planes for the parts.

Yes, no automaker is going to let their truck lines go down if they can help it at all. They're just insanely profitable.

Bet somebody like Toyota is looking at what it would take to rail their parts into Ontario so they can get RAV4 production running again.
 

Iron Woode

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 10, 1999
31,140
12,655
136
Yes, no automaker is going to let their truck lines go down if they can help it at all. They're just insanely profitable.

Bet somebody like Toyota is looking at what it would take to rail their parts into Ontario so they can get RAV4 production running again.
I am very sure every car plant here in Ontario has rail service. But rail does have its limitations.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
50,911
42,736
136
I am very sure every car plant here in Ontario has rail service. But rail does have its limitations.

Yea, final assembly plants will have rail yards already for autoracks where you could conceivably handle boxcars or get a stack loader to yank containers off. Intermodal is probably the first option since you can just throw the trailers on flatbeds or have containers picked up at the intermodal yard then trucked locally to destination.
 

NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,353
2,883
136
It isn't a trucker shortage in the literal sense.
There are millions more CDL holders than jobs available.

It's a garbage-working-conditions-noone-wants-to-do-this-shit-for-shit-pay-and-hours problem.

Truckers don't get paid idling. They get paid per mile. If you're stuck at a dock waiting to load, you're spending time not getting paid - possibly losing money if you're idling for a while, burning lots of fuel.

Pay per mile worked great back in the day when dispatchers and companies had little in the way of tracking what trucks were doing. Pay per mile rewarded efficient drivers and crews.
Now trucks can be tracked every step of the way, driving a truck is easier and more fuel efficient (thanks to auto/DCT transmissions), and the barrier to entry is much lower in terms of who can drive. Trucking companies were petitioning the federal government to allow 18 year olds to be able to drive across state lines under supervision of an experienced driver. Currently I think it's minimum 21 with experience to do interstate trucking?
Trucking also has turnover as 90% per year in some areas. That's INSANE.
But companies continue to chew through drivers rather than provide better wages and conditions to retain drivers.

The race to the bottom to provide goods as cheap as possible is really a race to the bottom for wages and/or working conditions.
You say it's not a shortage in the literal sense, because of how many people carry a CDL (a license will never dictate or represent a shortsge), but then go on to describe why we have a shortage that has nothing to do with having a CDL License. It is a shortage in the literal sense, because people are chosing not to do that job. I said it was due to the continually increasing DOT restrictions and low pay (poor conditions is really a by product of low pay), all you did was go into specific describing just that.
 
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Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,820
136
So you're ok with just never going back to normal? Inflation is at a 30 year high and it is going to only get worse if we actually keep this as the status quo. It's completely absurd that some people just want to keep everything like this. We need to move on, the economy and society cannot continue like this forever. Please, think about this.

Please don't make straw man arguments. Very few people, if any, want measures to continue indefinitely. What many want is for measures to remain so long as the pandemic remains a significant strain on healthcare — and the evidence (as in real, in-context evidence) shows that it does. Omicron is much less severe than past strains, but it's not just a "common cold" and creates problems precisely because so many more people get infected.


The Tim Horton's in Ottawa near the convoy is has never seen this much business, and the truckers have been going in and cleaning the floors and even the bathrooms. They've also seen crime go down and the streets have never been cleaner. I do agree the horns was a bit much, but they had agreed to stop after a certain time. But yeah they should have really toned that down as it only end up pissing off people, and that can't be good for hearing either for those around.

At this point I think they need to leave since it's a matter of time until the government does something very drastic against them like taking their children which I heard rumours of, but they need to make it known that they are not done. From what I gather they do have some plans in mind that involve playing lot of games of confusion with the government, just like the government has been doing to us for 2 years. They also have rock trucks coming. Not sure where those are going. They don't even need to go anywhere, I'm sure the government are freaking out not knowing the intentions. This is what they need to do, keep the government on their toes and in the dark. Just like they do with us.

Still lot of work to do but I think the people are winning and the government is in panic mode, especially Trudeau. They need to be reminded that they work for us, not us for them.

I'm sorry, but as someone who knows many who live in Ottawa... this is whitewashing that's utterly disconnected from reality.

Ever since the truckers showed up, they've been responsible for harassment, physical assaults, desecrating monuments, racist and transphobic incidents, flooding 911 with fake calls... they even bullied a homeless shelter into providing food. That's not including the very real disruptions to businesses and people's lives. The protest is actually doing more to harm the local economy than current restrictions. Please read up on what's actually happening in the city.

And don't forget, some of the key organizers (like Pat King) are overt racists, in some cases with histories of fomenting violence.

No, the government is not planning to 'take their children.' It's arresting people for crimes (some of which are extremely easy to document) and otherwise using entirely legal avenues to get many of the occupiers out. Remember, the protesters never had a permit; by all rights they should have been arrested the moment they blocked downtown.

And I really, really have to laugh at the "the people are winning" falsehood. Most Canadians oppose the protests. The government is not backing down; its only "panic" is its uncertainty as to how to remove the occupiers. Anecdotally, I know of multiple instances of local Conservative supporters vowing to oppose the party after it showed sympathy with the truckers.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
21,628
6,076
136
Why are you pro mandate people so hateful towards people who just want to live normal lives? All I see is hatred from people like you. This is not even a left wing vs right wing thing even though you people try to make it one. I just don't get the mental gymnastics that goes on inside a head like yours to be so defensive against the idea of letting people live normal lives again.
This is P&N, dissenting views are always met with insults and aggression. It's popular because there are no consequences, everyone gets to be an alpha male.
I share your attitude though, it's time to pull the plug on all of the covid restrictions. National debt has reached a staggering amount, inflation is roaring, and doing any kind of business that isn't handled entirely from a chair is a nightmare.
 
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IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
71,747
31,707
136
National debt has reached a staggering amount, inflation is roaring, and doing any kind of business that isn't handled entirely from a chair is a nightmare.
Conservatives are pretending to care about the national debt and monetary policy again; there must be a Dem in the White House. Throwing in the dig about white collar jobs vs blue collar is a nice touch.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,809
12,050
136
You say it's not a shortage in the literal sense, because of how many people carry a CDL (a license will never dictate or represent a shortsge), but then go on to describe why we have a shortage that has nothing to do with having a CDL License. It is a shortage in the literal sense, because people are chosing not to do that job. I said it was due to the continually increasing DOT restrictions and low pay (poor conditions is really a by product of low pay), all you did was go into specific describing just that.
My bad. I interpreted "shortage" as

"there are not enough people WHO CAN do this job"

Instead of
"there are not enough people WHO WANT to do this job"

The whole trucking industry pushes the driver shortage narrative the same way other businesses say "no one wants to work", so I guess I'm a little salty when I read those particular phrases
 

NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,353
2,883
136
My bad. I interpreted "shortage" as

"there are not enough people WHO CAN do this job"

Instead of
"there are not enough people WHO WANT to do this job"

The whole trucking industry pushes the driver shortage narrative the same way other businesses say "no one wants to work", so I guess I'm a little salty when I read those particular phrases

Got it!


No worries, I think we all get a little salty. Me, I am usually just a straight forward no filter, I say what I think guy. (Not always right mind you).
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
37,904
30,584
136
This is P&N, dissenting views based on lies, conspiracy theories and people refusing to justify their views are often met with insults and aggression. It's popular because there are no consequences, everyone gets to be an alpha male.
I share your attitude though, it's time to pull the plug on all of the covid restrictions. National debt has reached a staggering amount, inflation is roaring, and doing any kind of business that isn't handled entirely from a chair is a nightmare.
FTFY
Motherfucker

I have no problems relaxing restrictions in locals where warranted. Hopefully spring will tamp this thing down.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,820
136
This is P&N, dissenting views are always met with insults and aggression. It's popular because there are no consequences, everyone gets to be an alpha male.
I share your attitude though, it's time to pull the plug on all of the covid restrictions. National debt has reached a staggering amount, inflation is roaring, and doing any kind of business that isn't handled entirely from a chair is a nightmare.

It's not time, but my bigger issue with this reply is the economic claim.

Many of the restrictions in place in the US tend to be relatively light (usually mask mandates and privately-instituted vaccination requirements), and even those in Canada have been lightening quickly since Omicron peaked. More importantly, the factors behind at least inflation don't have much to do with those restrictions — they're frequently supply chain-related issues that were caused by disruptions early in the pandemic and which have rippled through the economy for a long time since.

Even if we immediately lifted all restrictions, it would take many months, if not a few years, for the economy to fully recover. The protesters are calling for an accelerated timeline that wouldn't actually do much to change reality... well, aside from getting more people sick.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,865
31,960
136
Why are you pro mandate people so hateful towards people who just want to live normal lives? All I see is hatred from people like you. This is not even a left wing vs right wing thing even though you people try to make it one. I just don't get the mental gymnastics that goes on inside a head like yours to be so defensive against the idea of letting people live normal lives again.

This is P&N, dissenting views are always met with insults and aggression. It's popular because there are no consequences, everyone gets to be an alpha male.
I share your attitude though, it's time to pull the plug on all of the covid restrictions. National debt has reached a staggering amount, inflation is roaring, and doing any kind of business that isn't handled entirely from a chair is a nightmare.
Because the amount of effort required to refute false statements that you guys make CONSTANTLY that you are then going to just IGNORE anyway is frustrating. You fucks are not worth more than a few seconds of our time, so you get concentrated vitriol. Enjoy the fruits of your ignorance.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
I apologize in advance because I am not going to be very nice in this post.

So you're ok with just never going back to normal? Inflation is at a 30 year high and it is going to only get worse if we actually keep this as the status quo. It's completely absurd that some people just want to keep everything like this. We need to move on, the economy and society cannot continue like this forever. Please, think about this.

Honestly, at this point, I'm just fucking sick and tired of hearing people say things like "we're just so tired of COVID". The worst part is that remarks like that are so rarely ever followed up with anything of substance to suggest why that person is so badly inconvenienced by COVID that we should even care that they're "tired of it". Are they public health workers that are being run ragged? No. Are they someone who is on the brink of eviction due to loss of work during shutdowns? No. They're entitled assholes that are mad about having to wait for 25 minutes at the drive-thru to pick up their overpriced Starbucks coffee in the morning.

What makes it even worse... do you think those of us that aren't complaining about COVID and mandates are ENJOYING IT? No! Hell, you can argue that it's even more frustrating, because we're lining up at the first chance to wear our masks and get our vaccinations -- both measures to help reduce the spread -- and our efforts TO RETURN TO NORMALCY are constantly being thwarted by those that espouse that such a change is exactly what they want! What's the difference? We keep soldiering on in an attempt to finally end this; we keep doing our part.

Frankly, I wish we didn't need mandates. I'd love it if people just realized that a mask (for the vast, vast majority of people) is a minor inconvenience, and that the vast, vast majority of people are not going to have an adverse reaction to the vaccine. I'd love it if people would start opening their eyes to the concept of how society works, and that part of it does involve giving up some individual freedoms for the good of society as a whole. If wearing a mask is the anthill you wish to die on in regard to societal overreach, then there's no hope for you when it comes to living in society.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,254
136
This is P&N, dissenting views are always met with insults and aggression. It's popular because there are no consequences, everyone gets to be an alpha male.
I share your attitude though, it's time to pull the plug on all of the covid restrictions. National debt has reached a staggering amount, inflation is roaring, and doing any kind of business that isn't handled entirely from a chair is a nightmare.
I see you are fine with a 9/11 level amount of American death every 36 hours. But I'm sure you fully supported bombing Iraq over 9/11.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,000
53,243
136
Why are you pro mandate people so hateful towards people who just want to live normal lives? All I see is hatred from people like you. This is not even a left wing vs right wing thing even though you people try to make it one. I just don't get the mental gymnastics that goes on inside a head like yours to be so defensive against the idea of letting people live normal lives again.
I personally agree with ending all covid restrictions except for vaccine mandates, which should be expanded to cover all of society and all religious exemptions should be eliminated.

As for the idea that covid restrictions are causing debt and inflation there’s no evidence for that - it’s just people making shit up to cover their preconceived ideas.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
31,444
49,116
136
Joint Statement from Canadian Labour Unions on the Protests-

Canada’s unions have fought for generations for the right to protest. This is a cornerstone of our democratic system. But what we have witnessed on the streets of Canada’s capital over the past thirteen days is something different altogether. This is not a protest, it is an occupation by an angry mob trying to disguise itself as a peaceful protest

We have seen an occupation of city streets and parks, disrupting workers, businesses and residents. Frontline workers, from retail to health workers, have been bullied and harassed. We have witnessed noise attacks keeping families up at all hours. We have seen right-wing extremists spreading messages filled with racism and intolerance, flying the Nazi and Confederate flags, alongside other symbols of violence and hate. We have seen organizers not only demand the end of all public health rules, but also call for the overthrow of our democratically elected government.

The leaders of this occupation include people who espoused Islamophobic, Anti-Semitic and racist hate on social media, organizers of the notorious far-right yellow vest protests, and people spreading extreme conspiracy theories and calls for violence. This is an attack on all of Canada and not just the people of Ottawa.

Canada’s unions stand together, unequivocally opposed to these vile and hateful messages and condemn the ongoing harassment and violence against the people of Ottawa.

This occupation of Ottawa streets, on top of the latest wave of the pandemic, is having a devastating effect on the livelihood of already struggling workers and businesses. Workers are being harassed and bullied for just trying to stay safe while serving customers. Other businesses are being forced to close, which leaves them and their employees suffering economic losses they can ill afford.

This occupation has also raised serious questions about an uneven application of policing. Authorities spent the first week taking a hands-off approach to the occupation of city streets and parks, not even handing out parking tickets as big rigs blocked busy intersections and local businesses were forced to shutter. This is a far cry from the kinds of crackdowns we have seen in the past towards Indigenous land protests, Black Lives Matter and other equity-seeking activists or striking workers.

Over the past thirteen days, we have seen an unacceptable lack of leadership from those charged with maintaining the peace and defending public safety. Once this situation has been resolved, Canada’s unions believe it is vital that there be a full investigation into the response by all levels of government to this occupation.

The Omicron wave is still affecting our communities and Canada’s health care systems are inundated with patients and plagued by shortages of nurses, doctors and health care workers. Canada’s unions believe it is absolutely critical that public health decisions are based on science, and not on politics or an angry mob. We continue to call for strong occupational health & safety measures for all workers.

Canada’s unions call on the federal and provincial governments to work together and quickly deliver urgently needed direct supports to the workers and businesses affected.

It is time for all levels of government to work together to help the people affected and put an end to this occupation of our nation’s capital.


but no, the people are wrong
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,000
53,243
136
This is P&N, dissenting views are always met with insults and aggression. It's popular because there are no consequences, everyone gets to be an alpha male.
I share your attitude though, it's time to pull the plug on all of the covid restrictions. National debt has reached a staggering amount, inflation is roaring, and doing any kind of business that isn't handled entirely from a chair is a nightmare.
Dude, do not pretend that you care about the national debt even for a second.

By the way it’s good not to care about the national debt, but the annoying part to me is how conservatives pretend to care whenever democrats are in charge. You don’t care and you have never cared. If you did, you would support a rollback of every tax cut passed since 2000, which I am certain you do not.
 

eelw

Lifer
Dec 4, 1999
10,151
5,253
136
LOL

I just saw this:


seriously, you can't make this stuff up.
Stupid is as stupid does. Long covid brain fog will just make the antivaxxers even more stupid each time they get reinfected

Back on topic, not sure what Biden can offer to do. Does he plan to arrest the protestors on the American side of the border?
And our premiere calling a state of emergency. And he’s pushing to lay severe consequences to these protestors. Up to $100,000 fines and 1 year in jail.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,000
53,243
136
As for the truckers they should call in the army, arrest them all, and impound their vehicles.
 

herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
8,495
1,114
126
on rail transport: you guys know there are like, big lakes and rivers in this area right? there are only 2 or 3 spots along the great lakes that have rail bridges or tunnels, many of them very old and probably have size and weight restrictions. Niagara, one in Detroit, and near the soo locks, which is nearly useless, because then you have to go all the way around lake Michigan to get back to the auto factories. otherwise you have to go clear to Montreal or the other side of lake superior at international falls.

it would take a much larger, and probably more expensive effort to utilize rail at more than the Detroit crossing over using cargo planes, and waiting for this to end.

the crossing in Detroit is a very old tunnel and I'm sure its operating at capacity.
 
Last edited:

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
16,601
15,486
146
Yeah, how these dumbasses don't understand this is beyond me.
Because, like a child, they go through their entire life not understanding how the world around them operates. Like a child, they complain at the slightest change in their routine, or inconvenience. Like a child, they cry if their toys get taken away, if they are held accountable for their actions, or if they're given responsibility beyond the amount they want for themselves. They're fucking children and nobody is willing to parent them.
 
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