Canadian trucker protest

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Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
69,590
13,251
126
www.anyf.ca
Restrictions are bad but vaccine mandates are good. If anything we should expand them, right?

It should be a 100% choice, and ideally, private. Accepting vaccine mandates sets a dangerous precedent. What next will they force on our bodies? QR code tattoos, chips, surgery, organ donation? You give them an inch they take a mile. I don't know why anyone would be ok with this stuff. People need to mind their own business and let people decide for themselves what goes in their body.

Vaccines should be encouraged, but not forced. Especially because they do come with a risk. People should be allowed to deny anything that has a risk associated with it, without losing any freedoms, their job, etc.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
It should be a 100% choice, and ideally, private. Accepting vaccine mandates sets a dangerous precedent. What next will they force on our bodies? QR code tattoos, chips, surgery, organ donation? You give them an inch they take a mile. I don't know why anyone would be ok with this stuff. People need to mind their own business and let people decide for themselves what goes in their body.

Vaccines should be encouraged, but not forced. Especially because they do come with a risk. People should be allowed to deny anything that has a risk associated with it, without losing any freedoms, their job, etc.

Slippery slope arguments are a poor logical choice in a debate, because they don't represent reality. It's not like you're even suggesting these based upon past actions, but rather, pulling them straight out of your hindquarters!

Like I said earlier, to have a proper, functioning society, there has to be a bit of give and take. I can't go and act like it's a lawless state and simply take my neighbor's car because I like it. We have ownership laws that apply that restrict what would arguably be considered my freedom. Here's an example that I like to use because I think it's a bit less extreme yet it represents an example of where a policy with good intentions just doesn't work in society. Let's say they instituted a new policy to reduce carbon emissions by stating that no citizen can drive an ICE-powered vehicle more than four days a week. (No need to go into incredible detail there as I'm sure an actual law would.) The problem is that cars are so necessary in the United States due to the lack of sprawling public transport and the large landmass that the law just isn't tenable for society. Yes, the rule has a valid benefit for society as a whole, but it hurts the individuals too much.
 
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NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,353
2,883
136
It should be a 100% choice, and ideally, private. Accepting vaccine mandates sets a dangerous precedent. What next will they force on our bodies? QR code tattoos, chips, surgery, organ donation? You give them an inch they take a mile. I don't know why anyone would be ok with this stuff. People need to mind their own business and let people decide for themselves what goes in their body.

Vaccines should be encouraged, but not forced. Especially because they do come with a risk. People should be allowed to deny anything that has a risk associated with it, without losing any freedoms, their job, etc.
Everything we do has a risk associated with it. Most of our laws where health and safety are concern, revolve around those risks vs the outcome of not enacting such laws. It's no different with vaccine mandates.

Edit:
I guess we should remove the drinking restrictions on truckers as well. I mean, it's their choice if they want to take the risk of drinking and driving. Even though it's basically driving with a loaded gun that can go off and kill someone at any time. And how dare they lose their job for drinking and driving. Kind of like not being vaccinated, it's a loaded gun as well...

So yeah, it is a choice, they can chose to follow the rules, or they can chose another job.
 

rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
4,422
3,206
146
This is a pretty funny video about the situation so far. (satirical but makes really good points)





We're in a crappy situation in Ontario. Ford is terrible, but then Liberal and NDP want EVEN MORE restrictions. Can't really win. We are screwed unless there are drastic changes at the Ontario government level. Federally we're looking a bit better now that O'Toole is out. He was useless.

It does look like Ford may be giving in and dropping the vax pass though. It's a start. But why announce that it will be done later, just do it now. He always does that. I think he's doing it to get votes so the more he waits the closer to the election it is and the more fresh it is in people's mind.


Unfortunately there is also this: https://www.ontario.ca/page/digital-id-ontario

I don't like where that could be going.

Yeah, if Ford and O’Toole aren’t right wing enough for you you’re pretty far right.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
69,590
13,251
126
www.anyf.ca
Everything we do has a risk associated with it. Most of our laws where health and safety are concern, revolve around those risks vs the outcome of not enacting such laws. It's no different with vaccine mandates.

Edit:
I guess we should remove the drinking restrictions on truckers as well. I mean, it's their choice if they want to take the risk of drinking and driving. Even though it's basically driving with a loaded gun that can go off and kill someone at any time. And how dare they lose their job for drinking and driving. Kind of like not being vaccinated, it's a loaded gun as well...

So yeah, it is a choice, they can chose to follow the rules, or they can chose another job.

And nobody should be forced into anything that has a risk. Period. You are normally allowed to refuse work that you feel is unsafe, you should also be able to refuse medical treatment. Without it costing your job. Not that hard to understand. People should not be forced to "just get another job" over a medical choice. People who were tired of the horns in Ottawa can "just move" or " just don't listen to it". It's a choice right? It works both ways. Nobody should be forced to make a drastic life change because of something they never signed up for.

It's one thing if they require specific vaccines such as the more "classic" ones that have been proven over many decades (polio etc) to get hired for a new job in the medical field or any field where it makes sense to require that, but they should not be able to just arbitrarily introduce a new requirement to people that are already employed. Not to mention the whole thing of trying to segregate people from society based on it. That's unheard of and completely insane.

And drinking restriction is a dumb analogy. The act of not drinking is not going to put you at risk. And someone behind the wheel that is drinking is actually putting themselves and others at risk, so yeah not allowing alcohol makes sense in that case.

Not wanting dumb covid mandates that are only there to be punitive is not automatically wanting full anarchy.
 
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shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,080
136
We're all connected on this giant rock and that should have been obvious years ago. Airborne diseases are a threat to EVERYONE. The entire planet literally spread the coronavirus in a couple months thanks to airplane travel.
Even cats are able to spread it.
Mandatory vaccinations and masks are there to keep morons from killing people who don't wanna die. You do not have the right to kill others, especially for a bad reason like you don't think vaccines work. We've eliminated entire diseases thanks to vaccines. You have to get a shitload of vaccinations when you join the military because they know for a fact it increases unit health and survivability. They have shitloads of data to prove this.
 

NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,353
2,883
136
And nobody should be forced into anything that has a risk. Period. You are normally allowed to refuse work that you feel is unsafe, you should also be able to refuse medical treatment. Without it costing your job. Not that hard to understand. People should not be forced to "just get another job" over a medical choice. People who were tired of the horns in Ottawa can "just move" or " just don't listen to it". It's a choice right? It works both ways. Nobody should be forced to make a drastic life change because of something they never signed up for.

It's one thing if they require specific vaccines such as the more "classic" ones that have been proven over many decades (polio etc) to get hired for a new job in the medical field or any field where it makes sense to require that, but they should not be able to just arbitrarily introduce a new requirement to people that are already employed. Not to mention the whole thing of trying to segregate people from society based on it. That's unheard of and completely insane.

And drinking restriction is a dumb analogy. The act of not drinking is not going to put you at risk. And someone behind the wheel that is drinking is actually putting themselves and others at risk, so yeah not allowing alcohol makes sense in that case.

Not wanting dumb covid mandates that are only there to be punitive is not automatically wanting full anarchy.

Nobody is forcing truck drivers to be truck drivers, they chose to do that job, which includes all risks and requirements associated with that job. It's a choice.

You can normally refuse work that is unsafe IF there are no available safety protocols in place for your protection. Guess what the vaccine is? It's a safety protocol, it's not work. Don't even try to argue th vaccine itself is unsafe, because that is a bullshit and false argument.

I guess drug tests should be out, and you shouldn't lose your job if the company puts drug testing in place, and you refuse or fail the test, because "it wasn't what you signed up for".

i guess truck drivers shouldn't lose their jobs when the DOJ makes updates to their rules, and they refuse to follow them... You know because it's not what they signed up for.

I guess a truck driver shouldn't lose their job if they refuse to have a sleep study test, refuse the treatment for sleep apnea if they have it... You know because it a medical reason, and it's their choice. And it's not what they signed up for. (A requirement to get you CDL now).

All you are doing is trying to argue selfish strawman arguments.

There isn't an industry out there that doesn't change rules, guidelines, and requirements as time moves on. What it comes down to, is you either chose to comply, or you don't. Which means you chose to lose your job, or you chose to quit and move on. You are not being forced to work in that industry.

And no, my alcohol analogy is not stupid, because NOT taking the vaccine puts you and every person you come into contact with at risk. Taking the vaccine reduces that risk substantially. There is no difference between a drunk driver and a truck driver that chose not to vaccinate and interact with society.

As for the risk to the individual if they take the vaccine, that you are so desperatly trying to argue, that is almost mathematicalally non existent. You have a higher chance to get struck by lightening, or winning the lottery. It falls under the bullshit argument category.

Your problem is you don't seem to grasp the fact that the vaccine is not just about you the individual, it directly effects everyone in society. But you want to argue as of it only effects the individual.
 
Last edited:

uallas5

Golden Member
Jun 3, 2005
1,588
1,824
136
It should be a 100% choice, and ideally, private. Accepting vaccine mandates sets a dangerous precedent.

Vaccines should be encouraged, but not forced. Especially because they do come with a risk. People should be allowed to deny anything that has a risk associated with it, without losing any freedoms, their job, etc.
If this was the position of most people in the 50's we would still be dealing with Polio every summer.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,000
53,243
136
It should be a 100% choice, and ideally, private. Accepting vaccine mandates sets a dangerous precedent. What next will they force on our bodies? QR code tattoos, chips, surgery, organ donation? You give them an inch they take a mile. I don't know why anyone would be ok with this stuff. People need to mind their own business and let people decide for themselves what goes in their body.

Vaccines should be encouraged, but not forced. Especially because they do come with a risk. People should be allowed to deny anything that has a risk associated with it, without losing any freedoms, their job, etc.
Funny how I didn’t hear this argument about mandates for the measles vaccine, the mumps vaccine, the rubella vaccine, etc., etc.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
50,911
42,736
136
Funny how I didn’t hear this argument about mandates for the measles vaccine, the mumps vaccine, the rubella vaccine, etc., etc.

But those aren't the scary vaccines or whatever. mRNA technology is safe and anybody pretending it isn't is simply a liar at this point. Most people down prescription drugs daily with higher statistical risks.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,442
5,842
146
But those aren't the scary vaccines or whatever. mRNA technology is safe and anybody pretending it isn't is simply a liar at this point. Most people down prescription drugs daily with higher statistical risks.

Most people ingest food with higher risks in higher quantities (speaking about per risk) mutiple times a day. Way too many people are fucking dumb and incapable of accurately weighing risk.

Funny how I didn’t hear this argument about mandates for the measles vaccine, the mumps vaccine, the rubella vaccine, etc., etc.

You apparently are deaf because that's become a thing and is growing.
 
Last edited:
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eelw

Lifer
Dec 4, 1999
10,151
5,253
136
I agree it’s become more of a thing recently but that doesn’t change the fact that for many decades vaccination mandates were in place and were uncontroversial.
But can we be sure? Without social media and 24/7 instant news coverage, antivaxxers were just not given the same platform to spread their stupidity. Just isolated to their communities
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,530
1,089
126
They have started to move in. It will be interesting if the idiots decide to do something stupid as they are cleared by police.
 

Dave_5k

Platinum Member
May 23, 2017
2,007
3,818
136
I agree it’s become more of a thing recently but that doesn’t change the fact that for many decades vaccination mandates were in place and were uncontroversial.
Since at least 2000 there has been a growing antivax lunatic fringe in the US, but until Trump it had never been politicized or widely spread, previously seen in both democrats and republicans (mix of upper and upper middle class trying to protect their special snowflakes from everything and falling prey to disinformation fears like autism, plus ultra religious consevative enclaves), but it was limited to less than 10% of populace.
Trump weaponised the “personal choice” leanings of most Republicans to turn them against any and all COVID preventative measures, which has morphed into an ugly and dangerous antivax religion of the right fueled by international agitprop disinformation media.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,162
136
Bill Maher had an interesting take on income inequality. Did you know that only 1/4 th of that stimulus money intended to supplement lost wages and lost income for working Americans, that only 1/4 th of those billions actually went to working Americans? The other 3/4 went to the top 20 percent of wealthy Americans. And Donald Trump's personal law firm applied and received 20 million dollars from those stimulus billions. Which makes me want to ask, HEY TRUMPIES... STILL THINK THAT DONALD TRUMP IS ONE OF YOU???

Bill's point I guess, that the truckers protest go far beyond mask or vaccine mandates. This is happening all over the world and it involves income inequality more than anything else. The great divide within income equality.
I said this before. Our government could actually give every adult American a check for one million dollars, tax free, and that handout would not create one dent in our national debt. Every American could pay off their mortgage, pay off their car(s), send all of their children to college, and not a ripple felt in the national debt. So why wont congress do this. Well, when you have two classes of citizen, the top one percent and the slaves, you don't free the slaves.

Frankly, capitalism has failed. It doesn't work. While the intensions sound good, the reality ends up with a fascist form of government. You can not have a society where one percent controls all the wealth, and the other ninety nine percent living off the crumbs. And to add insult to injury, the slaves are expected to be thankful for the crumbs.
 

repoman0

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2010
5,067
4,316
136
Bill's point I guess, that the truckers protest go far beyond mask or vaccine mandates. This is happening all over the world and it involves income inequality more than anything else. The great divide within income equality.
I said this before. Our government could actually give every adult American a check for one million dollars, tax free, and that handout would not create one dent in our national debt. Every American could pay off their mortgage, pay off their car(s), send all of their children to college, and not a ripple felt in the national debt. So why wont congress do this. Well, when you have two classes of citizen, the top one percent and the slaves, you don't free the slaves.

258 million adults * $1 million = $258 trillion dollars. And you thought inflation was bad now. Please check your math before throwing out obvious BS like this.
 

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
4,763
327
126
It is really a lot more than just truckers. There is a strong undercurrent among many others over the perceived - rightly or not - injustice of the last 2 years. If one is interested in actual, on the ground, in the crowd reporting, then avoid any corporate or government media. Go to the live streams on YouTube, rumble or other favorite streaming service. I follow several but Feb. 12 - Live From Ottawa's Freedom Convoy 2022 - Viva Frei Live Stream - YouTube is one of my favorites. There are many more who are documenting the events and interviewing participants along with counter protesters if the counter protesters want to talk.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,385
15,203
146
And nobody should be forced into anything that has a risk. Period. You are normally allowed to refuse work that you feel is unsafe, you should also be able to refuse medical treatment. Without it costing your job. Not that hard to understand. People should not be forced to "just get another job" over a medical choice. People who were tired of the horns in Ottawa can "just move" or " just don't listen to it". It's a choice right? It works both ways. Nobody should be forced to make a drastic life change because of something they never signed up for.

It's one thing if they require specific vaccines such as the more "classic" ones that have been proven over many decades (polio etc) to get hired for a new job in the medical field or any field where it makes sense to require that, but they should not be able to just arbitrarily introduce a new requirement to people that are already employed. Not to mention the whole thing of trying to segregate people from society based on it. That's unheard of and completely insane.

And drinking restriction is a dumb analogy. The act of not drinking is not going to put you at risk. And someone behind the wheel that is drinking is actually putting themselves and others at risk, so yeah not allowing alcohol makes sense in that case.

Not wanting dumb covid mandates that are only there to be punitive is not automatically wanting full anarchy.
If it was just you affected by your desire to increase the risk to your life and health by being irresponsible then I might agree with you.

However since Covid is so infectious that you won’t be able to avoid catching it you can’t keep from infecting others, others who may end up with life alternating symptoms or even death. So why does the rest of society have to accept you increasing their risk just so you can avoid the “risk” of being responsible for your own health?
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,865
31,960
136
It should be a 100% choice, and ideally, private. Accepting vaccine mandates sets a dangerous precedent. What next will they force on our bodies? QR code tattoos, chips, surgery, organ donation? You give them an inch they take a mile. I don't know why anyone would be ok with this stuff. People need to mind their own business and let people decide for themselves what goes in their body.

Vaccines should be encouraged, but not forced. Especially because they do come with a risk. People should be allowed to deny anything that has a risk associated with it, without losing any freedoms, their job, etc.
Slippery slope? Past vaccine mandates never led to QR code tattoos or chips or surgery or organ donation, so why would you think they will this time?
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,385
15,203
146
It is really a lot more than just truckers. There is a strong undercurrent among many others over the perceived - rightly or not - injustice of the last 2 years. If one is interested in actual, on the ground, in the crowd reporting, then avoid any corporate or government media. Go to the live streams on YouTube, rumble or other favorite streaming service. I follow several but Feb. 12 - Live From Ottawa's Freedom Convoy 2022 - Viva Frei Live Stream - YouTube is one of my favorites. There are many more who are documenting the events and interviewing participants along with counter protesters if the counter protesters want to talk.

So these live streams are coming from people who have avoided corporate or government media?

Or are these just second-hand regurgitations of media from “non-corporate corporate “ media on the lower right side of this chart.
 

NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,353
2,883
136
I remember Red Squirrel being like this over 10 years ago, how do people not mature and grow as they age?
Maybe cuz of to many drugs when they where younger, causing them to regress backwards instead of forward?? Happened to my brother. Even though he was in his early 50's before he passed away last year, he had the mentality of a 12 year old due to all the drugs he did when he was younger.

If that isn't it, then I have to point towards the choice to purposely be ignorant of the truth.
 
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