Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Well, I guess our premiums are going to keep rising 10% a year. Fcking A.
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Well, I guess our premiums are going to keep rising 10% a year. Fcking A.
They were going to do that regardless of a public option. Nobody is addressing the cause of why we are seeing increases in cost beyond inflation. Everybody wants to address how to pay for it, not stop it.
This is not possible. Costs have been going up in most industrialized nations at a pretty solid clip, too, out pacing economic growth overall.Definitely true. But I'd rather pay 4-5% fixed in federal taxes for a public option than being held hostage by insurance companies who raise our rates 10 - 20%, some years even 30-40%.
Originally posted by: dammitgibs
There's this guy, Obama, dunno if you've heard of him he's kind of a big deal, and he's said on a couple occasions he's in favor of a single-payer system. And there are several republicans and democrats who have voted previously for a single-payer system.
And yes there are many who do not have access to the health care system in the states which I find troubling, but I don't see how you could describe it as "imploding" unless you are referring to medicare which will be bankrupt soon if we don't do something about it. The private sector still makes a profit, it can sustain itself and continue to be the epicenter for development of new drugs and new advances in technology.
Just sayin'
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Saying it has been debunked doesn't make it so.Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Really, because I think people including Obama have been for it in the past. We already know that his public option would see a big reduction in private, so 6 of one half dozen of the other. Thankfully the opinion has seemingly taken this off the table, at least for now.
Another boogey man which has been refuted many times
OH NO! Companies that have been raking in profit with 1000% increase in profits over 5 years while denying more and covering less will be hurt in favor of helping more americans!?!?!? SAY IT AINT SO!!!!
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Well, I guess our premiums are going to keep rising 10% a year. Fcking A.
They were going to do that regardless of a public option. Nobody is addressing the cause of why we are seeing increases in cost beyond inflation. Everybody wants to address how to pay for it, not stop it.
Definitely true. But I'd rather pay 4-5% fixed in federal taxes for a public option than being held hostage by insurance companies who raise our rates 10 - 20%, some years even 30-40%.
A good start to a solution would be if you teach people how to control their caloric intake in conjunction with moderate exercise. Make restaurants and fast food places like Dunkin Donuts post nutritional info on their menu's (it's on their websites). People will eat what they don't know will hurt them... and it's a generational thing as well. Parents don't eat right/control caloric intake, their kids become fat fcks who collectively increase my premiums. The airlines might be onto something here (monetarily penalizing fatties).
Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Link Boy, is that a term of endearment? 18 page wall of text fail. I'm not reading it, but thanks for playing. Surely your argument doesn't need 18 pages to be submitted, though 18 pages to obfuscate I can definitely understand. If you torture statistics enough they'll tell you anything.Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Saying it has been debunked doesn't make it so.Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Really, because I think people including Obama have been for it in the past. We already know that his public option would see a big reduction in private, so 6 of one half dozen of the other. Thankfully the opinion has seemingly taken this off the table, at least for now.
Another boogey man which has been refuted many times
Gee. Keep beating that dead horse that was debunked by the CBO on July 26.
Feel free to link to that "big reduction in private" insurance or stop lying, Link Boy
This is classic.
Link Boy sez "" We already know that his public option would see a big reduction in private "" insurance without backing up his statement.
When called on his BS, Link Boy subsequently demands a link, receives it, refuses to read it or back up his own statement, and then accuses the nonpartisan CBO of obfuscation.
:thumbsup: We are with you, Link Boy !
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Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: dammitgibs
There's this guy, Obama, dunno if you've heard of him he's kind of a big deal, and he's said on a couple occasions he's in favor of a single-payer system. And there are several republicans and democrats who have voted previously for a single-payer system.
And yes there are many who do not have access to the health care system in the states which I find troubling, but I don't see how you could describe it as "imploding" unless you are referring to medicare which will be bankrupt soon if we don't do something about it. The private sector still makes a profit, it can sustain itself and continue to be the epicenter for development of new drugs and new advances in technology.
Just sayin'
Speaking of not knowing things, allow me to correct you. Obama has said that he was in favor of a single payer system, but only if we were making a new system from the ground up. He has repeatedly stated he does not support a single payer system in our current situation. So no, you're wrong about that.
Furthermore I did not say anything about single payer, I mentioned the specific Canadian prohibition on private insurance. I am still unaware of anyone who says they support banning private insurance. Please read more carefully in the future.
For everyone else talking as if single payer systems and private insurance are somehow mutually exclusive, please realize that there are a lot of systems that quite effectively have both.
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
GenX: Definitely agree with you there... we cannot force or make each and every one of these people live a healthy lifestyle but I'm still paying for their healthcare.
Skoorb: I'd rather pay a little more each year and be able to budget for it than get gouged in an unpredictable manner by big insurance.
Overall, the moral of the story is that I'm sick of paying for fat fcks. Who is getting penalized here? ME. I'm a healthy 30 something male and I'm paying for every twinkie you just put into your bloated, fat pudgy fingers transported to your oversized mouth. At least with a public option, it'd force these assholes to pay their fair share. At the current rate, insurance companies are penalizing ME with huge premiums. They are the cause of MY rising costs. I'm making healthy lifestyle decisions but being forced to pay "fat fck premiums". Who here thinks this is fair? I guarantee you, anyone who is against the public option: if you were asked to either pay extra for every lb overweight or take a public option, which would you choose? At least with a public option costs are averaged on a much larger scale so spikes aren't going to occur nearly as much as smaller insurance companies.
Originally posted by: dammitgibs
http://www.google.com/hostedne...Y0Y3bvRD335rGu_Z3KXoQw
It's like something out of that twilighty show about that zone.
Kinda eye-opening to see that the rest of the world isn't so perfect either, maybe we should improve upon the system we have before we're so eager to adopt another countries system. I would hate to see us have to overhaul the health care system another 10 years down the road when we find that the last one couldn't sustain itself.
People use what's in their power. You don't have children so of course it's much easier to slight somebody using their resources to maximize healthcare access for their family because it's a concept foreign to you.Originally posted by: ZeGermans
It's amazing how every country with UHC also has private insurance so the super rich don't have to be seen with the dirty poors/blacks
Originally posted by: SickBeast
The doctors here in Canada are overworked and underpaid, that's why they're complaining and saying that the system is broken. We need more doctors here. Not too many people in their right mind here even want to become a doctor any more; it's a lot of education for a job that most doctors don't seem to enjoy doing.
The lack of doctors here has very little to do with the medical system itself. It stems from the fact that we do not educate enough doctors. We only have so many medical school spaces, and some of the graduates leave for the US.
I think there are limitations on medical schools, though. I don't know how it's done in the US, but competition to get into med school in Canada is strong and I bet it is in the US, too. Despite questionable wages for the huge amount of time and effort required to get through, many people do want to be doctors. It may be that Canada needs to let more doctors through the system.Originally posted by: bobcpg
Originally posted by: SickBeast
The doctors here in Canada are overworked and underpaid, that's why they're complaining and saying that the system is broken. We need more doctors here. Not too many people in their right mind here even want to become a doctor any more; it's a lot of education for a job that most doctors don't seem to enjoy doing.
The lack of doctors here has very little to do with the medical system itself. It stems from the fact that we do not educate enough doctors. We only have so many medical school spaces, and some of the graduates leave for the US.
I'm sure someone else has already pointed this out, but really "lack of doctors" is part of the medical system and funny that Canadian doctors are leaving to the "broken" American system. The reason that you do not educate enough DR's is because the reward is not enough up there in Canada to be a DR not because there is not enough space.
Originally posted by: bobcpg
Originally posted by: SickBeast
The doctors here in Canada are overworked and underpaid, that's why they're complaining and saying that the system is broken. We need more doctors here. Not too many people in their right mind here even want to become a doctor any more; it's a lot of education for a job that most doctors don't seem to enjoy doing.
The lack of doctors here has very little to do with the medical system itself. It stems from the fact that we do not educate enough doctors. We only have so many medical school spaces, and some of the graduates leave for the US.
I'm sure someone else has already pointed this out, but really "lack of doctors" is part of the medical system and funny that Canadian doctors are leaving to the "broken" American system. The reason that you do not educate enough DR's is because the reward is not enough up there in Canada to be a DR not because there is not enough space.
Originally posted by: ironwing
The US will eventually move to a single payer system. The only question is how much money and how many lives we're willing to throw down the rat hole that is the current system on our way there.
Originally posted by: Skoorb
BTW, people, this is the president of the Canadian Medical Association, not just a quack who doesn't know the difference between a stitch and suture (and neither do I, maybe there isn't one, ha!).
Doctors need to live close to the population base; in this case cites where the cost of living is highest. Doctors in my opinion should be paid the most compared to any profession given the huge value of life and liabilities associated with error. $300,000 per year isn't in the top income tax bracket in the United States, hell 1.5% of Americans make more than $250,000. There are currently 2.3 physicians per 1000 people meaning doctors only make up 0.25% of that 1.5%. I don't think the average wage is too far off what I would expect. I think doctors should get paid more than hedge fund managers and they get an absurd $10-100million for compensation.Originally posted by: shira
Maybe people should look at the following income chart for physicians in the U.S. to get an understanding of just how broken our system is.
U.S. Physicians
Does anyone wonder why Canadian physicians flee to the U.S.? Does anyone else think that median incomes in the $300,000 range are a little high?
Oh, private enterprise. Great answer.
Well, gee, maybe that's one of the problems of a multi-payer system.
Originally posted by: ZeGermans
It's amazing how every country with UHC also has private insurance so the super rich don't have to be seen with the dirty poors/blacks