Canadians

[Infohawk]

I don't think race is the big issue here. Both countries are mixed with a for-now white majority. (And I think if Canada appears more harmonious its because it has a smaller percentage of minorities and a better social system.)

 

[SickBeast]

The poll doesn't have an applicable response for me.

I've heard of Manifest Destiny but it's quite theoretical. You guys could conquer us tomorrow if you wanted to, and it's been that way for quite some time.

In a sense NATO protects our autonomy, and we are a key NATO member ourselves.

I like the way things work right now. If I see a hit of fascism or anything close, I'm personally darting for the US border. The same goes for Americans; our door is always open.

 

[SickBeast]

As for "why not"; your society is geared too much toward individualism (and murder if you look at your foreign policy). We are not infallible as humans.

I also do not approve of the current political process to elect a President. IMO our system makes more sense and has been used for a much longer period of time.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: BoberFett
This might just be the dumbest idea ever floated on these forums.

what are the downsides? I see it as a great idea. I think a common border policy with no real 'border' between the us and canada as being a great idea, as well as a common currency.

The downsides? What, the current US federal government isn't bad enough for you? Can you imagine the complete lack of accountability if we make it even bigger? Is the disparity between Mississippi and Massachusetts not big enough for you? You really want a federal government that passes laws that affect both Alabama and Quebec?

Hell, there's not much difference between the Chinese government and the Bush administration, and they make everything we buy anyway. Why not bring them into the fold too?

The more local the government the better. The bigger government gets, the less it represents the individual and the more it represents large interests, i.e. corporations.

Well, Canada's Debt only is approx(off the top of my head) approx $600 billion(Federal and Provincial). So in that sense it's not too bad. I still am completely opposed to the idea though.

Interesting. So $20,000 per person.

Does that mean if I save up $20,000, I'm effectively out of debt to myself, since that's who my own government borrowed it from by printing off more money?

How does this compare to US debt per capita?

I've heard that the US owes a huge chunk of its debt to China somehow. I wonder if ours has a foreign component.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: desy
Right I'd rather break off with Midwest states and the West Coast than the South or New York or Toronto or Quebec, poor Maritimers stuck out on the edge

I got a better vibe from Vancouver than I do from Toronto.

The police here in Toronto have been teaming up with the local government to pull off multiple hidden agendas, which I don't like. In certain ways, our judicial system here is a complete joke, and there is a huge homeless problem compared to other parts of the world (although I would imagine they might be in jail or locked in a mental institution against their will elsewhere). Our planning office is defunct, which I feel is our main downfall in comparison to Vancouver (along with our terrible air quality).

I actually do have a desire to leave Toronto despite the fact that I live and work in two of the city's best communities. I can only imagine how others are feeling.

To be completely honest, I was quite impressed with the US cities I visited, and so were my parents (and for all 3 of us, it was quite shocking, perhaps because of the media).

In short: What Toronto needs politically is a complete overhaul in how policing works. We also need a planning counsel that is trained in design, with private sector work experience. Beyond that we need cleaner air here. It comes back to the way transit is funded, the lack of electric motors, and a belligerent lack of pollution control on behalf of industry and government.

Whoever allowed the Hamilton steel mill to be built upwind from us is causing a large number of Torontonians to die each year. Now it's owned by Americans. Nice living in an armpit, isn't it?

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
I don't think race is the big issue here. Both countries are mixed with a for-now white majority. (And I think if Canada appears more harmonious its because it has a smaller percentage of minorities and a better social system.)

Canada is more harmonious because we are a "tossed salad" and you guys are a "melting pot".

We embrace culture, you guys smack it down and say "be like us", which in turn gives people the impression that hate is ok.

I personally find your comment that less minorities = more harmony offensive. Visit Toronto and tell us we have less minorities. :light:

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Infohawk
I don't think race is the big issue here. Both countries are mixed with a for-now white majority. (And I think if Canada appears more harmonious its because it has a smaller percentage of minorities and a better social system.)

Canada is more harmonious because we are a "tossed salad" and you guys are a "melting pot".

We embrace culture, you guys smack it down and say "be like us", which in turn gives people the impression that hate is ok.

I personally find your comment that less minorities = more harmony offensive. Visit Toronto and tell us we have less minorities. :light:

Less minorities or a more homogeneous societies does result in a more harmonious society. Look at violent crime rates in Japan or Scandinavia compared with more diverse countries. People fear what they don't understand, it's instinct.

 

[StinkyPinky]

No one in Texas will agree to this. THey're still pissed off at Alaska for stealing the largest state mantle. Imagine some of those big ass Canuck provinces joining the union.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky
No one in Texas will agree to this. THey're still pissed off at Alaska for stealing the largest state mantle. Imagine some of those big ass Canuck provinces joining the union.

Actually I'm all for it. They get all kinds of sweet assault rifles in Canada that you can't get here.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

You have to be kidding me. Join the United States? Join a nation that will become an impoverished, overpopulated third world country ala India in the future? If anything, they need to think about building a wall and electrified fence to keep out illegal American immigrants.

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Mill
I do not see the benefit to either country.

x2

Why?

Liberalized trade and border controls would be a good thing, but I do not see any reason to combine the two countries. Canada has their identity and the U.S. has theirs. Yes, the countries are very similar, but they also have differences. I am not sure that either the U.S. or Canada wishes to become one.

 

[imported_Champ]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: DukeN

Originally posted by: Imp
Na, realized in the past year how different we are from Americans and how happy I am here.

+1

Wow, between you two and Sickbeast I'm beginning to wonder about you Canucks. Would either of you care to answer Infohawks question?

Are all Canadians the same? The only reason I ask that is because you guys seem to think that ALL Americans are the same. You realize that we're actually a pretty diverse group of people right?

Diverse is as Diverse does. From where I'm sitting, there isn't enough "diversity".

Who was Canada's last black prime minister? Oh yeah, you're diverse alright. :roll:

Who was Americas last Black President? :roll:

We've had a Woman as Prime Minister, although she wasn't Voted into that position, but appointed. We do have a Black Female Governor General, the Queens official Representatitve.

BTW, when a non-European does become PM he/she will unlikely be Black. More likely to be Indian or other Asian.

I just want to point out that after the Queen the Governor General is the most powerful position in this nation...steveo harper has the classy position but still answers to the Queen and her representatives

 

[BackFlow]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
how about rather than giving up all sovereignty and a lot of identity, just very open borders and a common currency (dollars)

I'm with you on the border thing, but screw the common currency. I prefer the CAD curency in monopoly colours over that of the green monochrome USD.

 

[BackFlow]

Originally posted by: LS8
The OP asks the question like the US wants Canada.

The US would be a no body with out Canada. The economy would crash with out Canadian natural resources.

 

[sourthings]

Lived in Canada for 27 years, since I was 4, originally born in England, but consider myself Canadian. Would never, under any circumstance, unless the whole political and social landscape of the U.S. somehow suddenly mirrored ours, would go for this.

Yes we watch the same tv shows and are exposed to the same pop culture. But there are vast differences between the social climate, accepted politics and general atmosphere. Ask most any Canadian and they will tell you they notice it when they are in the U.S. And it's not about one being better than the other, there are just differences, and I prefer what we have now and would not sacrifice possibly losing it to end up having what you have there.

Take a look at some statistics on standard of living, quality of citizens health, crime rates by type of crime, opinion polls on various social issues and tolerances, government expenditures and policies. You'll see the stark differences between our two countries there. Having the same cable channels does not make us the same.

 

[StageLeft]

I don't know what I am anymore, but I think the US' main problem right now is foreign policy, it's belligerent and counterproductive and frankly suicidal. I imagine that the Canadian identity, forged on an anvil of often-arbitrary hatred for America (we hate what we see in the mirror, perhaps?), is particularly against any kind of a joining idea these days, and for obvious (and good) reasons, but of course these debates are always nothing more than a what-if; it would never happen unless the US somehow convinced its population that seizing Canada was the right thing to do.

 

[DukeN]

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: DukeN

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: DukeN

Originally posted by: Imp
Na, realized in the past year how different we are from Americans and how happy I am here.

+1

Wow, between you two and Sickbeast I'm beginning to wonder about you Canucks. Would either of you care to answer Infohawks question?

Are all Canadians the same? The only reason I ask that is because you guys seem to think that ALL Americans are the same. You realize that we're actually a pretty diverse group of people right?

To answer Infohawks question - I would not want Canada to join the US. I think I'm extremely lucky to live in Canada and could not imagine living anywhere else. For those that think the cultures are similar, they seem close enough at first glance but spend enough time mingling with society and people and you will see the subtle but "heavy" differences.

Let me put it this way, the conservatives in Canada would be Leftists in the US.
To put it in perspective, as a Canadian I find it stifling as an environment in the US the same way a liberal in the US would be if they were in a neocon dominated area.

There's many things but the expressed arrogance and right wing exuberance are the two things that irk me, and that may vary from person to person. They are two very diverse but different countries - Canada is a land of immigrants, while the US wants to shut their borders down. As an example, half of the greater Toronto area's 6 million population is foreign born. Approximately 16% of Canadians are visible minorities. The difference is majority of Canadians are proud to be part of a nation built on immigration.

The United States is 26% non-white, I'm not sure this really matters but it is an issue you raised. By 2050 we are to be a majority minority nation. You strike me as someone who has never been here if you think we aren't proud to be a nation built on immigration.

Well, Sir you strike me as someone who has can't differentiate between the past the current. In a purely historical sense the US has been founded on immigration, but it seems the 'well-established' folks currently want no more of it. It's very visible on these forums, as well as in the political news landscape.

As an FYI for you to answer your question, in the last two years I have probably travelled there between 50-75 times if not more (to NJ/NY, VA, NC, PA and DC primarily).

 

[K1052]

Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?

 

[CanOWorms]

Canada has several barbaric institutions, particularly its love of the monarchy - its primary cultural difference with the US. They would expect the US to accept an inbred bloodline as superior, which is completely against the ideals of any modern society.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

This would kick ass!

America would marginalize the Canadians, and have unfettered access to their resources. We could take what we want and give lip service to their concerns, which would be precisely what happens.

I don't know what "Canadian identity" is, but whatever culture and uniqueness you possess would vanish. This wouldn't be a partnership, you would have to surrender yourselves to benefit DC politics.

Bad idea Canadians, but if you wish to surrender be my guest.

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Infohawk
I don't think race is the big issue here. Both countries are mixed with a for-now white majority. (And I think if Canada appears more harmonious its because it has a smaller percentage of minorities and a better social system.)

Canada is more harmonious because we are a "tossed salad" and you guys are a "melting pot".

We embrace culture, you guys smack it down and say "be like us", which in turn gives people the impression that hate is ok.

I personally find your comment that less minorities = more harmony offensive. Visit Toronto and tell us we have less minorities. :light:

I have been to Toronto recently and let me just say that you have some bigots up there, too.

 

[PimpJuice]

Canada is already Americas little brother and we sure as heck can kick their ass whenever we want to.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Infohawk
I don't think race is the big issue here. Both countries are mixed with a for-now white majority. (And I think if Canada appears more harmonious its because it has a smaller percentage of minorities and a better social system.)

Canada is more harmonious because we are a "tossed salad" and you guys are a "melting pot".

Harmonious yet a large segment of your population wants to secede

We embrace culture, you guys smack it down and say "be like us", which in turn gives people the impression that hate is ok.

Yes, you embrace American culture since you fail to generate your own. Except Quebec. But you guys project so much hate on them.

I personally find your comment that less minorities = more harmony offensive. Visit Toronto and tell us we have less minorities. :light:

Canada looks snow white compared to the US.

 

[imported_Champ]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Canada has several barbaric institutions, particularly its love of the monarchy - its primary cultural difference with the US. They would expect the US to accept an inbred bloodline as superior, which is completely against the ideals of any modern society.

lol barbaric institutions...CanOWorms you have never been to Canada or understand Canadian culture...I guess you would be happier in a more culturally advanced nation like the US with its wonderfully progressed death penalty, fighting wars for oil companies, national debt in the trillions, civil rights for homosexual people only in a few states, insurance based healthcare which 46 million people do not have access too which allows Americans to live on average 2 years less, but if were also talking barbaric traditions we could also talk about public safety, why per capita we have A LOT less murders,

Now I'm not saying Canada is perfect we do have our problems but the monarchy is no where near a barbaric institution, but in fact a proud tradition. there are 46 other nations in the world with a monarch as the head of state, including American supported Saudi Arabia, and the in past the Iranian Royal family.

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Infohawk
I don't think race is the big issue here. Both countries are mixed with a for-now white majority. (And I think if Canada appears more harmonious its because it has a smaller percentage of minorities and a better social system.)

Canada is more harmonious because we are a "tossed salad" and you guys are a "melting pot".

Harmonious yet a large segment of your population wants to secede

We embrace culture, you guys smack it down and say "be like us", which in turn gives people the impression that hate is ok.

Yes, you embrace American culture since you fail to generate your own. Except Quebec. But you guys project so much hate on them.

I personally find your comment that less minorities = more harmony offensive. Visit Toronto and tell us we have less minorities. :light:

Canada looks snow white compared to the US.

I think you guys had that problem a while back too (civil war anyone), what you don't understand is that the french are a source of pride and aggravation in Canada, they are unable to separate because they just do not have the support needed, although at one point separation was popular it has declined, now the French are working inside the government to allow them to continue to keep their culture, similar to the way the natives work (btw I have seen some reports on CNN about some native tribes trying to succeed from the US), we want to protect their culture, Canada is about diversity not a melting pot

obviously you have never been to Canada when i see a culture remark like that...yes a lot of our culture is borrowed, like every other nation in the world, yet our culture allows us to be treated with a great deal of respect around the world, I would never leave this country without a flag on my backpack, what Canada is known for is our respectful, peaceful ways...maybe inventing peacekeeping helped us with that, the world respects Canadians. We one of the few country's that are officially bilingual, something I'm proud of.

and "Canada looks snow white compared to the US" well I'm not gonna lie there are a lot of white people here but some words americans once found patriotic

Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

well in Canada we still believe that

Now I believe it would be a terrible idea to join together because well we gots all the good resources (oil mainly)...what makes me laugh is when your government says that you are trying to get rid of forean oil, yet there is only 3 years worth of oil proven in the us...while Canada has the 2nd most proven in the world, we are also the #1 mining source of uranium (nuclear power)...basically if american presidents keep their words then Canada will have wealth like higher then middle east nations...not only that but as a Canadian I treasure the fact that anytime I am hurt I can seek medical attention without worry of costs, I love the respect that our flag gets around the world, I love that we are known as peacekeepers, I love our diversity (no matter what stupid claim thing Quebec makes each week),

Oh and our beer is better

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: dennilfloss
Get rid of your republic for a parliamentary system that recognizes our queen as head of state, dump the permissiveness of religion and puritanism in your politics, become a more tolerant and polite society, dump your hardon for the individual in favor a more collective outlook, stop seeing military service as the measure of leadership, stop imposing your values and will on other countries, embrace science and universal health care...

That's for us to even begin to consider it, while drunk and puffing on a BC Bud fattie.

That sort of sounds like hell on earth.