[Canard PC Hardware] Intel prepares Ryzen's response behind the scenes

[Arachnotronic]

According to our sources, Intel is reportedly sampler several new processors Quad Core based architecture Kaby Lake .

• First there is the Core i7 7740K . It has 8 MB of L3, with a base frequency of 4.30 GHz (100 MHz more than the Core i7 7700K) at the price of a significantly higher TDP (> 100W against 91W). The Turbo frequency is not known, but should logically be 4.60 GHz.

• One of the other sample was renamed Core i5 7640K . At first glance, this is also a speed bump from the Core i5 7600K: Quad Core, 6MB L3, 4.0 GHz base frequency for the 3.8 GHz against 7640K for 7600K. On the TDP side, it would also climb above the 100W. But there is much more interesting: the Core i5 7640K would have active SMT (Hyper-threading), a first for a Core i5 Desktop. This modification profoundly upsets the segmentation of the different "Core". Until now, the Core i5 were distinguished from the Core i7 by the absence of Hyper-threading.

CPC also added a follow up note to the article:

[Edit 17/02/06 - 6:50 p.m.] Presence of HT on the 7640K
Following the publication of this news, several sources have contacted us about these two information. All confirm the existence of the Core i7 7740K and the Core i5 7640K but we get conflicting information about the presence or not of HyperThreading on the Core i5 7640K. Our sample should arrive at the end of the week, we will confirm the presence of this functionality and all the specifications (frequencies, TDP, etc.).

It's been a while since Intel has been compelled to launch a speed-bumped version of the same silicon in under a year (last I can recall is i7 2700K, and even that was 3 quarters after the 2600K launched...).

https://www.cpchardware.com/intel-prepare-la-riposte-a-ryzen/

 

[inf64]

I doubt that i5 will have SMT enabled . In their edit to the article they state that they were told by some sources it actually won't have SMT enabled which would fit perfectly in line with intel's current and all previous i5/i7 lineups.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I doubt that i5 will have SMT enabled . In their edit to the article they state that they were told by some sources it actually won't have SMT enabled which would fit perfectly in line with intel's current and all previous i5/i7 lineups.

I included the update in quotes, unless they updated again after I made this thread.

IMO, if I were Intel I'd enable HT on the 7640K but disable the 2MB of cache and keep stock frequencies lower. This will diminish potential upsell opportunity to 7700K, but will make the lineup more competitive.

 

[ElFenix]

if the HT part is true that's *potentially* a massive drop in price of entry for those features (unlocked and hyperthreaded). add in a bumped tdp limit and that may compel me to upgrade from the old 3570k.

 

[inf64]

I included the update in quotes, unless they updated again after I made this thread.

IMO, if I were Intel I'd enable HT on the 7640K but disable the 2MB of cache and keep stock frequencies lower. This will diminish potential upsell opportunity to 7700K, but will make the lineup more competitive.

It would make no sense to call that part i5 since it would be i7 for all intents and purposes. I don't think they will cripple the L3 in that way either. The only major difference between i7 and i5 in mainstream desktop space is SMT, all other things are the same(apart from L3 cache but the effect is minor). So if they enable SMT on that model it will likely be branded as i7 in order to not confuse potential and (former) buyers.

 

[Arachnotronic]

It would make no sense to call that part i5 since it would be i7 for all intents and purposes. I don't think they will cripple the L3 in that way either. The only major difference between i7 and i5 in mainstream desktop space is SMT, all other things are the same(apart from L3 cache but the effect is minor). So if they enable SMT on that model it will likely be branded as i7 in order to not confuse potential and (former) buyers.

I disagree. If the 7640K runs at lower speeds out of the box and has 2MB of L3$ disabled, then it is a "worse" part out of the box than the 7740K. The people who buy i7s because they want the absolute best will still go with the 7740K (better clocks out of the box, more cache, probably higher quality silicon), and the people who want bargains would find a potential 7640K a good bang-for-the-buck option.

But really, the point is that Intel would rather get the sale and maybe sell an i5 instead of an i7 than to completely lose the sale.

IMHO, Intel would have been in a stronger position if it had Coffee Lake ready to go back in January, but they don't, and they need to respond with what they have available to them.

 

[inf64]

IMHO, Intel would have been in a stronger position if it had Coffee Lake ready to go back in January, but they don't, and they need to respond with what they have available to them.

I think the plan was to have CL ready but since it is not KL is what will have to do for now. I think intel finally realized how dangerous 8T Ryzen parts will be IF AMD manages to get the clocks near 4Ghz range. It would enable AMD to perform better than i5 in threaded workloads much like how Haswell refresh is doing Vs KL i5. Granted 4790K runs at 4Ghz stock and I don't think AMD will manage that high base clock, but with advanced Turbo in play when coupled with good cooling Ryzen might be able to really clock itself high enough to achieve the same effect.

 

[LTC8K6]

There seems to be quite a gap between the 7700 and the 7700K.

https://ark.intel.com/compare/97129,97128

But not so much between the 7600 and the 7600K

https://ark.intel.com/compare/97144,97150

 

[Crumpet]

Just wanted to say sorry, didn't see this post when I made mine in the Zen thread.

 

[inf64]

Just wanted to say sorry, didn't see this post when I made mine in the Zen thread.

No need, this article is more about intel's products and not directly concerning AMD so new thread is in order.

 

[LTC8K6]

Maybe these are a response to the de-lidding reports of much cooler temps and thus better clocks...?

 

[RichUK]

Just want to put this out there, I called this a while back.

 

[Arachnotronic]

No need, this article is more about intel's products and not directly concerning AMD so new thread is in order.

That's why I created it, didn't want to take the Summit Ridge thread too much more OT.

 

[RichUK]

i7 7740K is a bit meh, only a 100Mhz bump in base clock - that is immaterial.

They could probably do a 200-300Mhz bump by way of binning.

 

[Tup3x]

It would make no sense to call that part i5 since it would be i7 for all intents and purposes. I don't think they will cripple the L3 in that way either. The only major difference between i7 and i5 in mainstream desktop space is SMT, all other things are the same(apart from L3 cache but the effect is minor). So if they enable SMT on that model it will likely be branded as i7 in order to not confuse potential and (former) buyers.

Considering how Intel names their laptop chips I'd say that anything is possible. If that i5 would have lower clock speeds then that would one differentiating factor.

 

[Shivansps]

Intel need Coffe Lake to save the I7 line but not the rest, they could have added full 4C/4T to the I3s, whould have make sence since Pentiums now have HT, and make the I5 4C/8T, NOW, with Kaby Lake, if Ryzen was a problem, and I7 could still have more L3 and Base/Turbo clocks.
Thats all they needed to do right now. AMD whould have needed to pit the 6C/12T Ryzen vs the I5 not the I7 as they can do now.

Coffe lake its not gona do much more, as I5 its likely to be 6/6 and I7 6/12. That whould place the i7 in a better position, but its really not that much diferent, if we are speaking about I5 and I3.

I think Intel is confident that Ryzen is not a mainstream product and that AMD is not gona price it low enoght to be a threat to 1151.

 

[raghu78]

I think Intel's run of milking the consumers is coming to and end. I think AMD is gonna price aggressively. My gut says USD 180/ 200 (4c/8t) to USD 280/300 (6C/12T) , USD 380/400 (8C/16T) and USD 500 for the flagship SKU. AMD need turbo clocks of 4 Ghz to remain within a 10% range in single threaded benchmarks against 7600k. Most people who buys these chips are going to manually overclock but the marketing battle of stock performance is still important. AMD need to push forward aggressively in 2018 with Zen + with higher clocks and IPC.

 

[LTC8K6]

i7 7740K is a bit meh, only a 100Mhz bump in base clock - that is immaterial.

They could probably do a 200-300Mhz bump by way of binning.

I can't see how that (100Mhz) would be a response to RyZen.

A response to RyZen would Shirley involve the HEDT chips?

 

[Conroe]

I could see Celeron being the only true dual core, Pentium dual core/w HT, i3 true quads, i5 quads with HT and then i7 adding even more cores. Eventually, It has to happen. Some of it has. But where is it going to go? There is going to be a point of diminishing returns just adding threads.

 

[raghu78]

I can't see how that (100Mhz) would be a response to RyZen.

A response to RyZen would Shirley involve the HEDT chips?

The fact that Intel are tweaking core i7 7700k and 7600k gives us a clue to the pricing of AMD's Ryzen CPUs. I think its a dead giveaway that Ryzen is going after the USD 200 - USD 500 market where the bulk of CPU sales are done. For HEDT Intel is going to Broadwell-E stock run dry and introduce Skylake-X in H2 2017.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I can't see how that (100Mhz) would be a response to RyZen.

A response to RyZen would Shirley involve the HEDT chips?

The 7740K is there to provide cover fire for the 7640K, which could bring HT to the Core i5s. Intel needs a higher end i7 SKU to put some distance between the i7 and the i5 SKU that will be very close to previous i7 performance, IMO.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I think its a dead giveaway that Ryzen is going after the USD 200 - USD 500 market where the bulk of CPU sales are done. For HEDT Intel is going to Broadwell-E stock run dry and introduce Skylake-X in H2 2017.

The bulk of PC CPU sales do not happen in this price range.

 

[crashtech]

So Intel is actually concerned? This could get interesting.

 

[CentroX]

Maybe intel got their hands of ryzen

 

[cytg111]

Hyperthreading i5's ? Yea no, I dont believe it . That would signal death of at least i3 and down .. or resegmenting ala :
i3 = 4c/4t
i5 = 4c/8t
i7 = coffeelake++
HEDT : 8 cores+