[Canard PC Hardware] Intel prepares Ryzen's response behind the scenes

[FrostigerFinger]

I just hope Ryzen starts the arms race once again.
Intel's performance improvements from gen to gen have gotten smaller with every release. Can't blame them though, that's just how a company maximizes its profit.

 

[PingSpike]

Sure they could do it... they did it with socket lga1366. Its like when I first bought into x58 / 1366 which was released years ago, they only had 4c/8t cpu's and a year later they released 6c/12t cpu's so if they could manage it back then for the same socket then for sure they could do it again for todays Z270 motherboards.The problem is Intel called AMD's bluff to many times that when AMD finally does have a killer hand Intel is blinded to past reoccurring bad hands from AMD and Intel can't see there own bad hand and is still expecting AMD to bluff.But this time its looking like AMD's the one with the killer hand..

I don't know, just a general question. If their HEDT separation is planned deep enough maybe its not to easy to just move the chips over to another platform.

Also its Intel so its a moot question anyway. Of course it is going to need another socket.

 

[unseenmorbidity]

I just hope Ryzen starts the arms race once again.
Intel's performance improvements from gen to gen have gotten smaller with every release. Can't blame them though, that's just how a company maximizes its profit.

The days of large performance jumps are long over.

Seriously, if you buy a good 6-8 core for gaming, then you are likely good for the better part of the next DECADE!

 

[CentroX]

The days of large performance jumps are long over.

Seriously, if you buy a good 6-8 core for gaming, then you are likely good for the better part of the next DECADE!

once 7nm is reached they have to find another way though. Then the real upgrades will come.

 

[FrostigerFinger]

The days of large performance jumps are long over.

Seriously, if you buy a good 6-8 core for gaming, then you are likely good for the better part of the next DECADE!

I bought a good quad in 2010 (i7 860) and have been good (OCed though) for more than half a decade.
I too think it is likely that the same thing will happen for octas in the next 5 years.

A hexa might not be enough in a few years though, given that the consoles have octa hearts.

 

[Phynaz]

Phynaz AMD surely will not put Intel out of business. But they can take significant amount of market share. AMD are at their lowest ever market share in servers and client PC because of the disastrous Bulldozer architecture. If you think Ryzen is not going to allow AMD to recover market share then you are pretty much in denial. Almost everyone agrees that AMD is back with a competitive CPU core. Exactly how competitive will be known in just over 10 days. But the indications are very positive. Intel will see margins and revenue fall. I think Intel will see the worst hit to DCG. imo Naples could be every bit as disruptive as the original Hammer.

Will it allow them to regain market share? Absolutely.

Does it mean they will gain significant market share? That's TBD. Build it and they will come only works in the movies. It takes more than a good CPU core to be successful - see IBM, DEC, HP, SUN et. al..

 

[FrostigerFinger]

once 7nm is reached they have to find another way though. Then the real upgrades will come.

Intel seems to be struggling with 10nm, 7nm will be even harder to achieve.
What will those upgrades look like though?
Different materials?

 

[LTC8K6]

I just hope Ryzen starts the arms race once again.
Intel's performance improvements from gen to gen have gotten smaller with every release. Can't blame them though, that's just how a company maximizes its profit.

You actually believe that Intel has been withholding ipc gains from us?

If they have been, then it's RyZen that is in trouble...

 

[FrostigerFinger]

You actually believe that Intel has been withholding ipc gains from us?

If they have been, then it's RyZen that is in trouble...

I hope so, realistically though I think they were just content with refining the same basic uarch every generation, instead of taking the risk of stomping a completely new architecture out of the ground (dozer comes to mind )

 

[Phynaz]

You actually believe that Intel has been withholding ipc gains from us?

If they have been, then it's RyZen that is in trouble...

Good point!

 

[LTC8K6]

Intel seems to be struggling with 10nm, 7nm will be even harder to achieve.
What will those upgrades look like though?
Different materials?

Intel will release 10nm chips this year. Intel/TSMC/Samsung will all be at 5nm before you know it. Intel already confirmed that it is working on 5nm designs, so they must be well along on 7nm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_nanometer

 

[raghu78]

Phynaz AMD can do more than develop a CPU core. In fact AMD's biggest success back in the Hammer days of 2003-2006 in servers came from x86-64 and the introduction of Hypertransport , a point to point interconnect in servers. It took Intel more than 5 years to bring an equivalent technology called QuickPath. So do not trivialize AMD's innovation. AMD has the IP to compete in servers both traditional and HPC with - Zen, Infinity Fabric and Vega. Your examples of IBM,DEC,HP,SUN are irrelevant because Intel and AMD are both x86 vendors while the others are RISC vendors with proprietary ISA. x86 won over the fragmented RISC ecosystem with proprietary ISAs. There are many reasons for that. But thats not the discussion here.

 

[Crumpet]

The days of large performance jumps are long over.

Seriously, if you buy a good 6-8 core for gaming, then you are likely good for the better part of the next DECADE!

Yeah but it won't stop me buying a new one a year later

 

[Greyguy1948]

Quotes...I hope so, realistically though I think they were just content with refining the same basic uarch every generation, instead of taking the risk of stomping a completely new architecture out of the ground (dozer comes to mind )

Bulldozer looks like a bad simulation. They should have better simulators today.

One question I have had since Nehalem:
Are the caches L1i=32 kB, L1d=32kB and L2=256kB unified the optimum for both 32 and 64 bits?

 

[IEC]

Intel isn't going to try to compete directly with RyZen IMO. At AMD's price points that's going to impact their margins too much and shareholders will cry foul.

It's more likely they will go for the outright performance crown (6/8/10/12 core chips at high clocks) with quad channel DDR and expensive platform with oodles of features.

Because people are willing to pay a premium for performance.

 

[LTC8K6]

Intel supposedly went to 1Mb of L2 per core with SL-X.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Intel isn't going to try to compete directly with RyZen IMO. At AMD's price points that's going to impact their margins too much and shareholders will cry foul.

Which do you think shareholders will like less? Seeing a slight decline in pricing or seeing Intel lose the sale outright?

 

[IEC]

Which do you think shareholders will like less? Seeing a slight decline in pricing or seeing Intel lose the sale outright?

Their stronger branding will allow them to coast for a while. I don't see any rush to make price cuts... yet.

 

[vissarix]

Their stronger branding will allow them to coast for a while. I don't see any rush to make price cuts... yet.

LUL your basically saying that people are stupid and buys based on branding?

if they were stupid they would have bought Amd cpu's...instead they kinda know what they want and chosed the best performer which is Intel till now..

BTW if Ryzen is truly competitive Intel is forced to cut prices, branding cant save them...

Intel knew that they will not keep going forever without competition as it was the last 6 years...

cutting prices for the i7 6900k/i7 6950x is not a big deal...they dont sell that many anyway...cutting the i7 7700k will have an impact but not that much really...i mean they might sell it at $240 and still be happy with it..same applies to i5's and i3's...Intel been making huge profit on a declining market...

 

[unseenmorbidity]

LUL your basically saying that people are stupid and buys based on branding?

Ahh yah, people are incredibly ignorant, and do exactly that...

AMD has had several superior products in the past, and the brain dead sheeple still bought the Nvidia and Intel products! I don't see why 2017 would be any different. AMD has almost complete dominance of the consumer market with Zen, yet I am willing to bet that intel will still outsell AMD by several fold.

Intel is not forced to cut prices. They have spent years grooming people to accept these higher prices, and they aren't going to destroy that unless they absolutely have to.

 

[crashtech]

LUL your basically saying that people are stupid and buys based on branding?...

People DO buy based on branding, all the time.

 

[IEC]

People DO buy based on branding, all the time.

Your average PC purchaser doesn't know anything about AMD, and that means by default they will go with Intel due to them being the recognized safe option.

It works this way in the business and consulting worlds as well. Firms at the top of their game jealously protect their brand and reputation - because it literally mean BILLIONS of dollars worth of contracts from potential clients can and do go to them. Even if they are not the most affordable (or even best) option. Branding/reputation/consistent delivery mean a lot to decision makers, who aren't always the most informed on the "specifications" of a particular project or product. You can have the best product in the world, but if you don't have the "brand" (i.e. you actually meet or beat timelines and deliver on your promises) few C-suite executives will gamble on you.

Personal branding/reputation works this way as well. If you have a reputation for outstanding work and save clients major $$$... you can basically write your own check.

I have colleagues working at a former client of mine who had an easier time getting their current contracts because of the decision makers basically saying "Oh you're with <redacted> same as <IEC>. He was awesome! We'll sign you."

 

[TemjinGold]

Which do you think shareholders will like less? Seeing a slight decline in pricing or seeing Intel lose the sale outright?

This may come as a shock to you (because it doesn't make sense) but shareholders actually prefer to see Intel lose the sale outright.

 

[CentroX]

Intel seems to be struggling with 10nm, 7nm will be even harder to achieve.
What will those upgrades look like though?
Different materials?

yes different materials. Have a look here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphene

 

[frozentundra123456]

People really need to get out of the PC mentality. Desktop is no longer a focus for Intel.

All this doom and gloom that AMD is going to put Intel out of business, or the fall is coming. But yet look where Intel is investing - Altera, DCG, IOT, Mobile, Deep Learning. These are all growth markets where AMD doesn't play.

I agree the doom and gloom is highly premature, ironically being propogated by the same contingent that used to be so outraged when it was applied to their favorite team. That said intel certainly has had a lot of problems breaking into new markets, and I do think their margins are going to take a hit.