Can't decide on my chipset

djcool976

Member
Feb 3, 2007
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Afternoon folks...

I'm building a new computer and am having some choice troubles. I've decided on everything but motherboard and video card. Since this is the motherboard thread I'll talk about that.

I've done a load of research but wanted to see if I could gather more opinions to help me make my choice. I like the looks of the 780i offerings but have read some problems about them. My current top pick is the Asus Striker II Formula. SLI is a thought but not a requirement as I'd probably do fine for what I would play on one video card. I'd like to stick with DDR2 as it's cheaper and not all that slower for the time being. Any boards that support both 2 and 3 yet?

I've also been looking at the x38/48 boards but just can't decide. I'll probably be going with an 8800GT (G92) or an 8800GTS (G92) so I'd like to have PCIe 2.0.

Anybody have any opinions? Let me know. Any and all help is appreciated.
 

hennethannun

Senior member
Jun 25, 2005
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If you do not absolutely need SLi then P35/X38 seems like the way to go. I have heard lots of horror stories about nvidia's intel chipsets (though i can't comment on them personally, and never had problems with my AMD nforce boards), and it seems like avoiding them is the obvious solution unless you simply NEED SLi.

I haven't seen any numbers yet, but do the new PCIe 2.0 cards actually take advantage of the increased bandwidth?

for what it's worth, I went with the P35 for my new wolfdale machine. X38 is marginally faster, and the 2x PCIe x16 would be great, but I don't think SLi/crossfire is really worth the cost, especially now that AMD/ATI has the 3870x2 on the market. And this way, I won't ever be tempted to waste any money on a second video card down the road.
 

djcool976

Member
Feb 3, 2007
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I don't think the new cards really take full advantage yet. My main reasoning for PCIe 2.0 was more of a futureproof than anything. I'm thinking about going with an evga card and stepping up later when the new stuff comes out. I'm just getting tunnel vision from so much research. It's all looking the same.
 

hennethannun

Senior member
Jun 25, 2005
269
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well, it seems like you have correctly identified 780i and X38/X48 as the two real choices.

But given that X48 isn't really out yet, and is likely to have both an early adopter's tax AND more of an emphasis on DDR3 memory, I'd say forget about that.

which leaves us with 780i or X38. Prices for those boards are pretty similar as are most of the features, so the difference is basically just SLi or Crossfire. And whatever credibility one wants to give to the 'nvidia makes crappy intel chipset' stories. Do you have a favored motherboard brand? Personally, I have had good experiences with MSI and Asus, and TERRIBLE problems with Abit. It's not particularly important, but little personal preferences like that can help you whittle down an otherwise undistinguished field.

If you are set on EVGA and aren't completely opposed to multi gpu solutions, then it looks like 780i might be the way to go, since that gives you more options.
 

djcool976

Member
Feb 3, 2007
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I really appreciate the advice. I suppose I was just looking for some reassurance. I've always liked nVidia products and know people who have not had a lick of trouble out of the 680i mobos. I really want to try an Asus board this time because I've yet to know somebody personally that had problems with them. Thanks again.
 

djcool976

Member
Feb 3, 2007
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One more question though....what is the down side of using DDR2 800 RAM in a mobo with a standard of DDR2 1066? If I'm not mistaken it will only allow me to use the slower FSB?
 

hennethannun

Senior member
Jun 25, 2005
269
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not quite.

intel quad pumps the FSB for their processors, so that 1066 FSB is really a 267 mhz clock speed.

DDR RAM doubles the FSB speed, meaning that DDR2 533 is all you need for a 1066 bus. while DDR2 667 is all you need for the newer 1333 FSB chips. All of which means that your DDR2 800 RAM is actually going to have slow down to match your 1066 FSB.

until Intel releases the 1600mhz FSB Q9770 later this quarter there won't be a cpu that will take full advantage of DDR2 800 at stock speeds.

Of course, you can always buy one of those new 1333 FSB processors (E8400, E6x50) and then crank the FSB up to 400 and drop in DDR2 800 at stock speeds. As far as I can tell, you have to get REALLY unlucky with the new C2Ds to buy one that won't do close to 400mhz FSB at stock voltages.

 

djcool976

Member
Feb 3, 2007
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Geez, thanks for the monkey wrench (j/k). I actually thought I had it all picked out.

In terms of CPU, you think I'd be better off going with a dual core over a quad core? my initial idea was to go for a Q6600 G0 Stepping Kentsfield.

And for the memory, I'm still confused. According to Asus the memory standard for this mobo is DDR2 1066, this refers to the FSB of the memory then? I'm lost now, guess I didn't have the grasp on memory I thought I did. I'd like to go with
 

hennethannun

Senior member
Jun 25, 2005
269
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I think (but am not 100% sure) that asus is telling you that the board will suppord DDR2 memory up to 1066, which means a FSB of 533. though i doubt you could get your cpu to run at a reasonable multiplier at 533 FSB, so it probably means that the board can detect DDR2 1066 memory and set up the appropriate memory divider. for example: you set up a memory divider of say 1:2, so that for every cpu clock cycle you would have 2 memory cycles. thus your Q6600 will run happily at its stock 266/1066 [remember, it's quad pumped] front side bus, while the memory runs twice as fast at 533/DDR2 1066 [here it's only Double Data Rate]. I was always confused by this myself, since it makes DDR3 seem kinda pointless. Who cares about DDR3 1600 if no one can get their FSB anywhere near 800mhz? But I am assured by the good people over on the system memory boardthat that IS the way things work at the moment. But it's still really confusing that a CPU requiring a 1066mhz FSB DOESN'T match up 1:1 with DDR2 1066.

But that always seemed kinda wasteful to me, so for my new C2D machine (I'm just switching over from Athlon 64 X2 now) I went with wolfdale (E8400) and DDR2- 400 memory. That should allow me to settle for a moderate CPU overclock to 400FSB/3.6ghz CPU while running the memory modules at their rated 400mhz. At least, that's the plan anyway! I won't know for sure until all the components arrive next week.

As for quad v. dual core, it's the same as the single core/dual core debate from a few years ago: Do you care more about single-threaded performance or multi-tasking efficiency. If you mostly just game (and I assume you do game from your GPU choice), then you're probably better off with dual-core. They are no slouch when it comes to normal usage and the number of games that really truly benefit from a 3rd and 4th core can be counted on one fingerless hand...

Of course, if you do lots of video-encoding, photo-shop work or other stuff that really benefit's from multi-threading, then quad core is probably better. (note that just to confuse things it's worth point out that Penryn includes SSE4 instructions which are supposed to increase video encoding performance by as much as 75-100%!)

So I guess what I'm saying is that I think the E8400 is the sweet spot right now. It's cheaper than the Q6600 (@$220 to $280), it has all the new bells and whistles (45nm process, high-k gates, 1333FSB, SSE4, 6mb L2 cache) which means it runs cooler than the older conroe/kentsfields, uses less power and is something like 4-10% faster clock for clock. There is undoubtedly a small sector of the market that should go for quad-core right now, but IMO the mainstream just isn't there yet. there just aren't enough programs that take advantage of the extra multi-threading ability.

Also, I have read at least a couple of reviews suggesting that at the upper end of it's OC envelope (4.25-4.5 ghz) the E8400 can outperform a stock Q6600 even in multi-threaded synthetic benchmarks! Now we should expect that the Intel hand-picked good chips to send to the review sites, but I've also seen a review from someone who just bought a retail box at a local store (I think that review is over at legionhardware; judge their credibility for yourself), and it reached 4ghz on air with little trouble. So unless the early indications are all universally and massively wrong the E8400 *should be*, in addition to all its other virtues, a very good overclocker.


Wow, that's kind of embarrassing as i read it. I sound like an Intel sales-person! I'm really not! In fact, up until this year I've been a pretty die-hard AMD guy. But the TLB errata on top of Phenom's rather lackluster launch has pushed me over to the intel camp. At least for now...
 

xp0c

Member
Jan 20, 2008
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It's a hard choice! I got a thread started on a choosing motherboard as well . hehe
I wanted SLI as an option since i have a Nvidia card, but since intel and nvidia don't get along these days there aren't that many choices.
I probably wont use 2 cards anyway so i abandoned the sli option and just went with the Asus P5E X38 board. If you go ati this board has both X16 slots running at full X16 speed for a crosfire setup, and also has PCIe-2.0.
 

GoaGas

Junior Member
Jan 14, 2008
19
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Hi djcool976
- For what it's worth I had a 680i & now have an X38 (both Gigabyte) even though all my components were bought for the 680 they all work so much better in the X38. Even under prolonged heavy load everything is still cool & quiet - it just sounds happy! I had to sacrifice SLI but I havn't really noticed. I'm no expert - I need reliability rather than break-neck speed & I seem score well in both with the X38.

nVidia do great graphics but their history of chipsets on Intel sockets is mixed. The chipset is so closely related to the CPU especially with new multi-core CPUs it would seem sensible to either go totally Intel or totally not. It has also been rumoured that Intel aren't exempt from skulduggery & may occasionally be a bit liberal with the truth on their design specifications. In a past life I was an AMD/nVidia fan & I do feel like I'm sleeping with devil now with Intel - & she's pretty darn good!
 

djcool976

Member
Feb 3, 2007
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The more I read about the E8400 the more I think I like it. Better performance is what I prefer and if the E8400 will provide that I believe it will be my choice. I've never done any overclocking so I'm hoping its pretty simple with this CPU. My main reason for picking the Q6600 before was really being set for the future. I don't get to upgrade very often so I just wanted to be prepared. As long as the C2D will get me a good long life I'm totally ok, especially if it's better on performance. I think I'll go with DDR2 800 RAM as well. I don't see any problem from the way it is explained here. As for the chipset....I'm still a little unsure. I really like the features of the Asus 780i mobo but want to make sure I get the best performance. You never mentioned it (or I just missed it) but what chipset are you getting henne?
 

hennethannun

Senior member
Jun 25, 2005
269
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I went with a P35 myself. (Asus P5K-E/WiFi). I was kinda on a budget, so the $150 price tag appealed to me. But more importantly, I was completely unenthused by my experience with SLi. I cost me a bunch of money, and generated a lot more heat in my PC and used a lot more energy, but I never felt like it significantly improved my gaming experience. So in general, I think one is better off (well, at least I am better off) just getting a new video card, rather than adding a second card. you get the newest feature set, and the new card generations come out so fast these days that you can usually get one new card from every other generation (ie i bought a 7800 card, so now I am skipping the 8800 series and waiting for the 9800s/or the ati equivalent if it's better) Anyway, with this mobo I am locked into a single card solution (though I do think that multi-gpu cards like the 3870 x2 could be worthwhile), so my problem is solved. I was tempted by the x38 (P5E), but in the end I felt like the extra $50 wasn't worth it for PCIe 2.0 when I haven't really seen any indication that any current or near future video card actually NEEDS the bandwith. I also thought i was slightly more likely to take advantage of eSATA than I was of PCIe 2.0 or two PCIe x16 slots.

I also toyed with the idea of a DDR3 board, just to future proof, but that just makes NO sense now. You can get 4GB of superfast DDR2 for half the price of 2GB of VERY SLOW DDR3 1333. and your PC won't even be able to run DDR3 at its native speed anyway! (see above). so that went out pretty quick. And if you can't already tell, I am restricting myself to asus boards because I absolutely loved every asus board I have ever used and they seemed to be the most tweak friendly (I'm not too much of an overclocker, but I am definitely a sucker for OC tweakability. I guess it adds to the illusion of control over my pc...though my firlfriend seems convinced that it controls me!). and I had no interest in the nvidia chipsets. SLi doesn't interest me any more, and the intel chips have all the other features, plus a better reputation for reliability (the 650/680i series had some pretty scary stories).
 

djcool976

Member
Feb 3, 2007
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Has anybody gone with a dual video card solution? Say I went with an Intel chipset, what type of pro's or con's would I get from running two nVidia cards without SLI? I know a few people that used that on older systems to get a dual monitor setup (which I currently use). Would this allow me to get a better use or performance from my dual monitor setup?
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
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You wouldn't need two cards for dual-monitor, only if you want to go triple-monitor or more.
 

djcool976

Member
Feb 3, 2007
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I knew two cards wouldn't be required, I just wasn't sure if it would make any difference with each monitor being ran by it's own card. It's not a solution I'd probably use but was mainly curious. I know though, wrong thread to delve into video questions.
 

krnmastersgt

Platinum Member
Jan 10, 2008
2,873
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Well there would be a difference in the screens if you had each doing something very GPU intensive, in which case 2 GPUs would be better but then the CPU would probably have problems with something like that.
Also the 780i boards are stable from what I've seen, you can get better max overclocks with the X38 boards but even then the CPU will probably limit you more than the board, only problem I have with the 780i boards is that natively they're 1333 fsb, enough for any CPU out now but they start becoming pretty unstable once you hit about 1900+ fsb but most chips won't go that far so you're set
 
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