Question Can't figure it out this time...

[aleader]

My son bought a new case for his PC (NZXT H510) and switched everything over to the new one. Now he can't get the PC to boot. There is power: MB lights up (ASUS Z97 Pro Gamer), all fans including CPU and GPU spin (CM Black RGB Hyper 212), but the keyboard and mouse don't light up and it never gets into the BIOS, just a black screen. In the past this has been me forgetting to plug in the CPU power cable. We have tried everything I can think of.

There were two standoffs that were stripped out of the box. So he pulled everything out and replaced those with new ones. One of the standoffs is the 'peg' type that just goes in the hole and holds the MB (no screw). I've swapped all of the SATA cables to the SSD, switched the power cables to the drives around, tried different SATA ports, tried a different monitor and cable, popped the CPU in and out, same result.

I also popped out the battery and put it in again. There is no reset switch just an HDD LED (I don't see a light for that on the case however), PLED, and power button. Only one SSD is hooked up, and only the mouse, keyboard, power cord, and video card. Could there be a short somewhere in the case, or is this a now dead CPU (i5 4670k)? That's my next step, swap the CPU with the spare 4670 I have. Any ideas before we go through that again? Bad battery maybe? It was working perfectly in his other case.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Are you using onboard video or a GPU? Does the GPU need its own power?
In the latter case, make sure the power cable to from the PSU is properly attached to the GPU.
(Yes, you may have remembered to feed power to the CPU, but how about the video card? )

If this doesn't solve it, it could be a more serious issue.
I've seen this type of behaviour once. The machine lost all power and the BIOS battery was removed. It turns out the SSD got de-initialized somehow.

The good news is that CPUs very rarely die. The bad news is that you still need to do a lot of trial and error.

Take out the motherboard from the case and see if it runs with no storage, just one stick of memory. Then add more memory. Then the storage. See if it boots from a Linux CD. And maybe try another PSU?

 

[aleader]

It's a 1660 super, and power to that is good. I'm assuming the fans on the GPU wouldn't spin if the cord wasn't plugged in. I had a new battery and tried that, no luck. I too doubt that it's the CPU as I've never had one die in 34 years. I can't recall if you need a SSD/HDD installed for the BIOS to post?

I unhooked all of the drives, still doesn't post. I will swap the CPU first as that's easier than pulling the whole board again, but I will try that if it doesn't work. Or maybe I'll just try swapping the RAM around first (and try one stick at a time). I find it hard to imagine that it could be an issue with the case shorting something?

 

[Steltek]

Take out the motherboard from the case and see if it runs with no storage, just one stick of memory. Then add more memory. Then the storage. See if it boots from a Linux CD. And maybe try another PSU?

This.

Set up the base system (motherboard, CPU/cooler, single stick of DRAM) on a cardboard box, hook up the power (you can leave the PSU in the case), and try to post the system by shorting the switch headers with a screwdriver. If it doesn't post, try swapping the memory module.

If it does post, you probably have a grounding issue with the motherboard in the case.

 

[VirtualLarry]

What happens if you unplug all of the front-panel wires, AND the front-panel USB2.0 (*if applicable, I don't think that case has any front USB2.0 ports), AND USB3.0 / Type-C ports front headers. Maybe the front-panel audio header, for good measure. Maybe one of the front-panel do-dads is shorting out the board. Reach into the case and short the front-panel power-on soft-ATX power switch (with a screwdriver).

 

[lane42]

Same happened to my Gigabyte Z97 a few years back, w/ 4670k.
Sometimes all fans would come on, then turn right off. Sometimes
everything was on, but blank screen. This happened out of the blue.
Did everything you have been doing with no luck, had a feeling it was
a corupt Bios. No luck with backup Bios. Saved my 4670k, it was a
good cpu,

 

[aleader]

Well, I figured it out. My kid was distraught and just wanted to put everything back into the old case and give up...kids (gets it from his mom ) . It was a chassis fan that he moved from his old case. The cable was really short and he had it stretched out so tight that I think it was sitting awkward and shorting. As soon as I unhooked all of the chassis fans it booted right up. I learned something new. I also noticed that the power button needed to be held down for 5 seconds to turn it off, but after unhooking the offending fan, now it shuts off with a simple button press.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Ha! You're lucky it was something as trivial as this - and hopefully this means a lesson learned for the future.

 

[aleader]

I spoke a little too soon actually. After hooking everything up again, a new issue cropped up. It was now power cycling quickly and continuously when you hit the power button...on off, on, off without getting into the BIOS. After thinking about it, the only thing different was the RAM (2 sticks instead of one). I pulled one, boots right away. Thinking it was the placement, I switched slots. I have now tried all different combinations in all the slots, and with two different sets of RAM (2x8) as I have a spare set. It will not boot now with anything in the A1 or A2 slots.

It obviously isn't the RAM (Kingston HyperX 1866), so I'm assuming this is a CPU reseating issue? It has been taken out and reseated once already, but I do recall running into this issue once before. All because he changed cases...

 

[lane42]

Have you seen the price's for used Z97's, not cheap.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

To me, it sounds like the mobo isn't getting enough power. While it has been 7-8 years since my last build, I do remember and even older build in which the mobo manual stated the addition four-pin power connector was required if using an Extreme Edition Intel CPU. I wasn't but it acted much like yours did until I just said WTF and added a four-pin power source to the mobo and then was running perfect. And while I may have missed it, how many pins of power are going to the board beyond the 20-pin bus?

 

[aleader]

Have you seen the price's for used Z97's, not cheap.

Are you suggesting he sells it? Not a bad idea if the prices are good actually.

 

[aleader]

To me, it sounds like the mobo isn't getting enough power. While it has been 7-8 years since my last build, I do remember and even older build in which the mobo manual stated the addition four-pin power connector was required if using an Extreme Edition Intel CPU. I wasn't but it acted much like yours did until I just said WTF and added a four-pin power source to the mobo and then was running perfect. And while I may have missed it, how many pins of power are going to the board beyond the 20-pin bus?

It was running in the exact configuration in his old case, so I don't think that's the issue. Actually it was overclocked to 4.5GHz (but only 1.19V), and it's back to stock now when I reset the BIOS. I believe I had this issue once before, maybe when I first put the board in, and it was just that the CPU needed re-seating. I'm just wondering if anyone else may have a different solution before he does that again.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Hmm, I wonder of one of the mobo mounting screws is making electrical contact and thereby grounding (shorting) the board.

 

[aleader]

Hmm, I wonder of one of the mobo mounting screws is making electrical contact and thereby grounding (shorting) the board.

Already went through that (read first posts). It doesn't make sense that it would be electrical as it's only the A1&A2 banks that don't work. I did a bit of research and almost every post where this happened was a CPU re-seating/bent pins issue. I've looked at it though and I never see any pins bent. Do you need to have a magnifying class or something? I'll try that today. I do have a spare 4670 I can swap in too.

Dumb question, how long can you let the CPU run (right at startup) without a cooler attached? Does it heat up to smoking hot right away? He has a CM Hyper 212 RGB cooler and it's a pain having to keep taking it on and off every time. It would only be running for maybe 10 secs to see if it will boot. I've never tried without a cooler before.

 

[lane42]

Not long, i would not even try it.

 

[aleader]

Not long, i would not even try it.

Yah I know not long, but what is 'not long'? There must be some data out there. I'll have to look.

 

[lane42]

You should post that question in the cpu and overclocking Forums

 

[aleader]

Seems like it's doable. CPU will just throttle after a few minutes. I'm actually surprised by how many videos there are on this:

 

[UsandThem]

Seems like it's doable. CPU will just throttle after a few minutes. I'm actually surprised by how many videos there are on this:

There's also a lot of videos of people eating Tide Pods and ghost peppers.

It still doesn't make it a smart idea.

 

[VirtualLarry]

There was, IIRC, a thread on here, where someone "popped" their Haswell quad, by running it without a heatsink. So, it IS possible to damage them.

Don't forget FIVR, those regulators are on top of the CPU die, and under the heatspreader, I believe, and get fairly hot, fairly quickly. To say nothing about the CPU core.

 

[aleader]

There was, IIRC, a thread on here, where someone "popped" their Haswell quad, by running it without a heatsink. So, it IS possible to damage them.

Don't forget FIVR, those regulators are on top of the CPU die, and under the heatspreader, I believe, and get fairly hot, fairly quickly. To say nothing about the CPU core.

In 10 secs though you think? I just want to see if it power cycles, and that takes less than that actually. If it was my new-ish 3600 I wouldn't chance it, but this is an 8 year old CPU that I originally bought used, so it wouldn't be the end of the world if it fried. I also have a spare and a spare MB (mATX, H81-m) and 16GB RAM to boot. I guess I could just place the cooler on top without fastening it down until I know it boots.

 

[PrinceXizor]

I also noticed that the power button needed to be held down for 5 seconds to turn it off, but after unhooking the offending fan, now it shuts off with a simple button press.

You posted this comment before you started having the power cycling issues. I would propose that is SUPPOSED to be a 5 second hold to power off and the fact that it is not, means your pin headers are wired incorrectly.

If it was me, I would recheck all of the basic stuff again now that you sourced your original issue. I've lost count of the number of times I've screwed things up while troubleshooting one issue that I then chased my tail until I checked the basics again to see my easy screwup.

Also, aside from popping your CPU, running without the cooler adds too many variables to be an effective troubleshooting method (i.e. thermal overload/shutdown as a failure mode). Therefore, you won't actually learn anything definitive anyway.

 

[lane42]

but this is an 8 year old CPU that I originally bought used,

And the Z97 is 6-7 years old.
With all due respect, and i mean this to be nice, just toss it.

 

[aleader]

And the Z97 is 6-7 years old.
With all due respect, and i mean this to be nice, just toss it.

Why would I do that? My 18 yr old son plays mainly Total War Warhammer 2 and COD...why, I don't know and gets 60 - 90fps with his 1660ti and the 4670k. No stuttering, nice and smooth (all SSD system). Just because something is old, doesn't mean you need to toss it. I'd sell it first, looks like I'd get a little over $100CDN for it.

I've noticed that new systems have gone way up, with the exception of RAM. For instance, I bought my 3600 for $229 CDN ($175USD) and B450 MSI Gaming Pro Carbon AC board for $149 CDN ($114USD). That combo would cost me $100 more right now. For what, another 10fps (from the benchmarks I've seen)?