Capping property taxes: Good or bad for schools?

[JEDI]

property taxes are used mainly to fund the local education system.

if the county caps it, that limits the $ being spent on schools.

proponents say it'll make the schools more efficient/less waste of $.

opponents say the good teachers will just leave for adjacent counties that pay more.

in the dc area, looking at the public school rankings of Fairfax/loudon county (uncapped prop taxes) vs prince georges county (capped), it seems that uncapped wins.

 

[RandomWords]

I could see where uncapped schools would win - but only because when they cap it; instead of finding ways to be more efficient they go with the easy solution and just cut salaries to the teacher or staff because they are too lazy/uncreative to think of better ways to do things... where we limited their funding I've heard most of the schools took the former route; a very few of them actually worked out solutions that didn't involve cutting teachers or their salaries.

 

[Greenman]

Here in CA property taxes are established when you purchase your home, and can only increase 1 or 2 percent per year. So they're effectively capped. It's hurt every aspect of government because everything is so badly mismanaged, and government pay scales here are insane.

 

[boomerang]

Here in CA property taxes are established when you purchase your home, and can only increase 1 or 2 percent per year. So they're effectively capped. It's hurt every aspect of government because everything is so badly mismanaged, and government pay scales here are insane.

So, if they raised property taxes say, 10% per year things would be running smoother and government employee's would be making more money - right?

 

[her209]

If they are thinking of capping property taxes the same way its being done here in CA with Prop 13, its going to have a few "unintended" consequences.

Here in CA, the poorer neighborhoods where the majority of residents rent instead of buy, the schools lose out on the property taxes. While the value of the properties continue to rise and with it the rent, the property taxes are held low benefiting only the property owner. This has a draining effect of tax dollars on the local community. The state and federal government has to make up the loss of dollars through the state and federal budgets.

The capping of taxes also has an effect on the real estate market. Driving the prices up as buyers are willing to pay more for property in current dollars if they are able to save in future dollars. In the last real estate bubble here, buyers were willing to pay two time or in some instances, three times, what the house was worth just a few years prior. Granted, there were other factors that also helped to make that happen such as no-interest loans and banks willing to loan $400K to borrowers making $25K annually.

Businesses also gain immensely property as buy and selling a business that holds the property doesn't count as buying and selling the property, i.e., assessed value to determine property tax is unaffected.

 

[rpanic]

Here in CA property taxes are established when you purchase your home, and can only increase 1 or 2 percent per year. So they're effectively capped. It's hurt every aspect of government because everything is so badly mismanaged, and government pay scales here are insane.

Also the real purpose Prop. 13 was to shift tax burden from commercial properties to residential.

http://caltaxreform.org/?p=154

 

[fstime]

Our property taxes are 5K minimum for your outdated 1950's 1,000 sq. foot ranch home and easily 8-9K on something reasonably "nice."

Fuck Property taxes. People complain that a studio costs $1,000/month, but when the property owners expenses are up to his neck, what do you expect. It all boils down to excessive government spending when it comes to high cost of living in many parts of the country, not "evil corporations."

 

[LegendKiller]

Our property taxes are 5K minimum for your outdated 1950's 1,000 sq. foot ranch home and easily 8-9K on something reasonably "nice."

Fuck Property taxes. People complain that a studio costs $1,000/month, but when the property owners expenses are up to his neck, what do you expect. It all boils down to excessive government spending when it comes to high cost of living in many parts of the country, not "evil corporations."

You knew that when you bought it. Live somewhere different. It isn't that difficult. I've lived form Miami to NYC and am now in MN, I've seen the highest and lowest taxes in the country. If you want cheaper taxes move to a worse school district. It's your choice.

Where I live I can see the direct result of lower taxes. You can say the schools are less efficient but, overall, it plays out pretty accurately that lower taxes = lower education. The wild card can be expensive areas or high 2nd language speakers.

 

[fstime]

You knew that when you bought it. Live somewhere different. It isn't that difficult. I've lived form Miami to NYC and am now in MN, I've seen the highest and lowest taxes in the country. If you want cheaper taxes move to a worse school district. It's your choice.

Where I live I can see the direct result of lower taxes. You can say the schools are less efficient but, overall, it plays out pretty accurately that lower taxes = lower education. The wild card can be expensive areas or high 2nd language speakers.

What are you talking about dude? Who said I have been living here for a few years? Somebody can own a home for 50+ years and see taxes rise much faster than inflation though the years.

Move to Bridgeport, CT. $10,000 are extremely common on homes which need to be demolished and they are ranked pretty much dead last in the state for public education.

Move to Detroit and pay $6K on a $150,000 home and get your amazing education.

Regardless, if a child wants to learn, they will learn, doesn't matter if they are going to school in Detroit or Beverly Hills. Too many parents obsess over school rankings when the child's mentality is far more important than the school ranking. You can make it out of almost anywhere in this country if you give your 100%, might even give you some street smarts and cultural diversity while you're at it.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

You knew that when you bought it. Live somewhere different. It isn't that difficult. I've lived form Miami to NYC and am now in MN, I've seen the highest and lowest taxes in the country. If you want cheaper taxes move to a worse school district. It's your choice.

Where I live I can see the direct result of lower taxes. You can say the schools are less efficient but, overall, it plays out pretty accurately that lower taxes = lower education. The wild card can be expensive areas or high 2nd language speakers.

That sounds great but I live in the highest taxed county in the 50 states. Money which would have gone to education is siphoned off to pay for other programs. It's not just paying for schools, we're having that money stolen and that's not right.

 

[LegendKiller]

What are you talking about dude? Who said I have been living here for a few years? Somebody can own a home for 50+ years and see taxes rise much faster than inflation though the years.

Move to Bridgeport, CT. $10,000 are extremely common on homes which need to be demolished and they are ranked pretty much dead last in the state for public education.

Move to Detroit and pay $6K on a $150,000 home and get your amazing education.

Regardless, if a child wants to learn, they will learn, doesn't matter if they are going to school in Detroit or Beverly Hills. Too many parents obsess over school rankings when the child's mentality is far more important than the school ranking. You can make it out of almost anywhere in this country if you give your 100%, might even give you some street smarts and cultural diversity while you're at it.

Yeah, the mill rate of ~42 says that an assessed value of ~250,000 would dictate a $10k/yr tax bill, that's assessed without homestead, so you'd actually be looking at a 300-350k house in that area to mean a tax bill of 10k. While the homes in Bridgeport are old, even 300k is pretty decent from what I've seen on Zillow. BTW, I used to live in Stamford, so I am quite familiar with the area. In fact, my wife and I were going to buy in Fairfield until we moved away 2yrs ago.

Bridgeport schools do look pretty crummy, I never said that the correlation is perfect. Stamford taxes are relatively high also but the schools aren't good because of the 2nd language kids.

I also agree that money doesn't correlate perfectly to good results, as parental involvement is required and the results show themselves pretty well. It's why Asians and Indians do well, their parents care little about all of the other fluff.

You should see how many kids in my son's ECFE are asian and indian. How many families in my area are the same. You begin to wonder where the white upper/middle-upper class has gone.

 

[JEDIYoda]

property taxes are used mainly to fund the local education system.

I am sorry but I have lived from Texas to Alaska to Kansas to California......property taxes used for schools......that's a new one on me...perhaps intended for schools...but hardly ever used for schools...

 

[Matt1970]

They "capped" ours here in NY but it's a joke cause I pay 3% a year.

EDIT* And I forgot to add. Mine would be more like 3.5% without my NY state Star exemption.

 

[Zorba]

Property taxes on residential houses shouldn't raise at a quicker rate than inflation, or at most 2-3% a year, unless the house is sold. The cost of schooling doesn't go up just because home values go up and it doesn't go down just because home values go down. I seriously doubt school districts that were getting 10%+ revenue increases every year were actually efficiently using that new money.

 

[glenn1]

property taxes are used mainly to fund the local education system.

if the county caps it, that limits the $ being spent on schools.

proponents say it'll make the schools more efficient/less waste of $.

opponents say the good teachers will just leave for adjacent counties that pay more.

in the dc area, looking at the public school rankings of Fairfax/loudon county (uncapped prop taxes) vs prince georges county (capped), it seems that uncapped wins.

Why would you compare one of the richest counties in the country (if not the richest) with one that's the poorest in the region? I'd say whether property taxes are "capped" pales in comparison to the social class of the students. If Fairfax wasn't capped and PG was the kids in Fairfax would still be doing better since their parents value education more.

 

[Zorba]

Why would you compare one of the richest counties in the country (if not the richest) with one that's the poorest in the region? I'd say whether property taxes are "capped" pales in comparison to the social class of the students. If Fairfax wasn't capped and PG was the kids in Fairfax would still be doing better since their parents value education more.

Basically this. No amount of school funding will fix apathetic parents.

 

[Matt1970]

Basically this. No amount of school funding will fix apathetic parents.

This is true.

 

[DCal430]

Here in CA property taxes are established when you purchase your home, and can only increase 1 or 2 percent per year. So they're effectively capped. It's hurt every aspect of government because everything is so badly mismanaged, and government pay scales here are insane.

While I don't like prop 13, Districts can raise money by adding on mello roose or parcel taxes to each property. There is no limit to the amount that can be added.

 

[DCal430]

If they are thinking of capping property taxes the same way its being done here in CA with Prop 13, its going to have a few "unintended" consequences.

Here in CA, the poorer neighborhoods where the majority of residents rent instead of buy, the schools lose out on the property taxes. While the value of the properties continue to rise and with it the rent, the property taxes are held low benefiting only the property owner. This has a draining effect of tax dollars on the local community. The state and federal government has to make up the loss of dollars through the state and federal budgets.

The capping of taxes also has an effect on the real estate market. Driving the prices up as buyers are willing to pay more for property in current dollars if they are able to save in future dollars. In the last real estate bubble here, buyers were willing to pay two time or in some instances, three times, what the house was worth just a few years prior. Granted, there were other factors that also helped to make that happen such as no-interest loans and banks willing to loan $400K to borrowers making $25K annually.

Businesses also gain immensely property as buy and selling a business that holds the property doesn't count as buying and selling the property, i.e., assessed value to determine property tax is unaffected.

Schools districts can add a square ft tax to properties, there is no limit to the amount of sq ft tax that can be added.

 

[Greenman]

So, if they raised property taxes say, 10% per year things would be running smoother and government employee's would be making more money - right?

Government employees would indeed make more money. Though I don't understand why we would give them more, their compensation packages are already astonishing. Work for twenty years with a top tier salary then continue to get paid for the rest of your life when you retire. Should we be supplying private planes and yachts as well?
Having my property taxes double every six years to support that system would drive me out of my home, though I guess that's ok because the government employees might want to buy it as a rental.

 

[Texashiker]

Capping property taxes: Good or bad for schools?

Uncapped is the way the free market is supposed to work.

If you can afford to buy a $1 million home, then you can afford to pay taxes on that home.

If you can afford a $100 million factory, then you can afford to pay taxes on that factory.

Part of the big problem with school taxes that people ignore, those factories that went to china, they are no longer paying taxes. So the tax burden is shifted to home owners.

If you want property taxes to go down, bring factories back to the USA. Have the factory owners create jobs, and the tax burden is shifted from homeowners to locally owned businesses.

Businesses and homeowners should share the burden for supporting the local schools. free trade took those tax dollars and sent them to china.

 

[Fern]

property taxes are used mainly to fund the local education system.
-snip-

Where I live only about 30% of county revenue is spent on education. We also have other sources of revenue such as sales taxes that are available to pay for education and other expenses. Property taxes (real estate and other) only account for about 56% of our revenues.

Fern

 

[highland145]

Capping or not isn't a good argument when there's no accountability in the school system. I suggest everyone look into what your per child $$ are in the state and then find out what the $$ are that find their way to the county/district/school level.

$11K/kid in the state. $6K/kid at the local school level here, S.C.

 

[Zorba]

Uncapped is the way the free market is supposed to work.

If you can afford to buy a $1 million home, then you can afford to pay taxes on that home.

If you can afford a $100 million factory, then you can afford to pay taxes on that factory.

Part of the big problem with school taxes that people ignore, those factories that went to china, they are no longer paying taxes. So the tax burden is shifted to home owners.

If you want property taxes to go down, bring factories back to the USA. Have the factory owners create jobs, and the tax burden is shifted from homeowners to locally owned businesses.

Businesses and homeowners should share the burden for supporting the local schools. free trade took those tax dollars and sent them to china.

Most decent sized companies completely get out of properties tax through various methods.

Just because you can afford the taxes when you buy the house, doesn't mean you can 15 years later when the house "value" has doubled. How many people in California were pushed out of their houses when property taxes were going through the roof, only for the market to drop out. So they were pushed out due to a false raise in "values."

Also, not sure where you learned about the free market, but I don't recall taxes ever being taught as a way to support a free market.

 

[networkman]

It's not just schools - libraries are often affected as well; such is the case where I work. A 10-year .88 mill was approved by voters in 2004. A couple years later the bottom drops out of the housing market and correspondingly the property tax base drops as well, so that the .88 that is levied is now bringing in far less than it was in 2004, with no way to change it until this year. The property tax base (in this area) still hasn't recovered sufficiently, meaning we have to approach the voters with a higher millage value just to get the same funding we had 10 years ago. Crazy.