Car accident...who's at fault?

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Paul98

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2010
3,732
199
106
Sounds like an avoidable accident to me though it was her fault. You already saw that the person wanted to get over and that the driver was oblivious to people around her. You should have expected and been ready for what happened.
 
Oct 20, 2005
10,978
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91
20-something years of driving, I average somewhere around 30k miles per year. In the past couple of decades, I've had ZERO accidents, except a deer that landed on the road 2 feet in front of my car. ZERO moving violations. Plenty of close calls that were avoided by ME being aware of my environment. He already stated he was aware that she was trying to move left. He put his car into a position to prevent her from doing that - barely. And completely ignores that many drivers don't have their rear view mirrors set properly & don't see that spot.

In other words, as I said above, the accident is her fault, but he could VERY easily have avoided it if he didn't drive like an ass.

This site describes the exact same situation:
http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~gdguo/driving/BlindSpot.htm
Except, in that case, the driver on the right side waited to move to the left lane. In the OP's case, he clearly witnessed her attempting to move into the left lane. I maintain that her mirrors weren't set properly AND the OP put himself into harms way.

If you see someone shooting a gun, and between pulls of the trigger, you jump in front of the gun, whose fault is it that you got shot? Clearly the person who pulled the trigger. But you're the moron who jumped in front of the gun. Driving in a manner to intentionally prevent someone from making a turn is aggressive driving.

That is a big assumption in the bolded. Everyone's reaction time is different, and just from the facts in the OP's post, it appears his was a normal reaction/response. What if OP was/is a safe driver who kept a safe distance between him and the truck in front? How can you say he's an ass or a bad driver if the lady cut into his lane, thus reducing his safety cushion by half or so. How do you know all of this didn't happen in a few seconds? Do you know what speed they were travelling?

Why aren't you calling the lady, who you said is 100% at fault, an ass? Surely her driving properly could have 100% prevented the accident.
 
Last edited:

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Don't see how it would be anything other than 100% her fault if trying to make a turn starting from the center lane.
 
Oct 20, 2005
10,978
44
91
Sounds like an avoidable accident to me though it was her fault. You already saw that the person wanted to get over and that the driver was oblivious to people around her. You should have expected and been ready for what happened.

It sounds like he was as ready as he could have been. Maybe it looked like the lady came to her senses and decided to go straight.
 
Oct 20, 2005
10,978
44
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Edit: or to put it another way in fewer words:
You saw she was trying to move left. You had two choices: give her space, or block her from moving left. You chose the latter. Accident happened. Nice going.

Another choice would be to maintain your speed/space since OP made it clear he thought the lady was done trying to turn left from the center lane.

All you people saying it was clearly preventable are making tons of assumptions.
 

foghorn67

Lifer
Jan 3, 2006
11,883
63
91
20-something years of driving, I average somewhere around 30k miles per year. In the past couple of decades, I've had ZERO accidents, except a deer that landed on the road 2 feet in front of my car. ZERO moving violations. Plenty of close calls that were avoided by ME being aware of my environment. He already stated he was aware that she was trying to move left. He put his car into a position to prevent her from doing that - barely. And completely ignores that many drivers don't have their rear view mirrors set properly & don't see that spot.

In other words, as I said above, the accident is her fault, but he could VERY easily have avoided it if he didn't drive like an ass.

This site describes the exact same situation:
http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~gdguo/driving/BlindSpot.htm
Except, in that case, the driver on the right side waited to move to the left lane. In the OP's case, he clearly witnessed her attempting to move into the left lane. I maintain that her mirrors weren't set properly AND the OP put himself into harms way.

If you see someone shooting a gun, and between pulls of the trigger, you jump in front of the gun, whose fault is it that you got shot? Clearly the person who pulled the trigger. But you're the moron who jumped in front of the gun. Driving in a manner to intentionally prevent someone from making a turn is aggressive driving.


Edit: or to put it another way in fewer words:
You saw she was trying to move left. You had two choices: give her space, or block her from moving left. You chose the latter. Accident happened. Nice going.

You're driving record may be good, but your reading comprehension sucks.
 

crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,858
0
76
You're driving record may be good, but your reading comprehension sucks.

No, his comprehension is fine.

He's not saying the lady isn't at fault. What he's saying is that the OP could have realized that the lady needed to turn left and adjusted his driving and avoided the accident all together. Instead, it seems OP continued on oblivious to the events that happened just seconds before. Rather than slow down a bit and allow the lady to lane change, he obviously kept going. Now he's paying the price for not taking note of what others around him are doing. Sure he won't have to cover the repair bills but it's time without his vehicle and it's value will depreciate.
 

tailes151

Senior member
Mar 3, 2006
867
9
81
There's some comparative negligence. If you knew she was trying to move left and had been driving erratically there will be some liability placed on you. As to whose insurance will owe the claim, it all depends on the state in which the accident occurred.

Some states are 51% liability (meaning that if you are determined to be 51% or more at fault your insurance will pay for the % you are responsible), 50% (similar to 51% but in this case if both parties are equally at fault your insurance will still pay for the 50% you are at fault for), pure contributive (if you are even 1% at fault you will not receive any payment from the other driver's insurance), and finally pure comparative (you will pay the % of damages that the adjuster's determine you are at fault.

Based on your description and without speaking to the other driver, witnesses, viewing the damages, police reports, etc... it sounds like you will have some minimal liability. Had you actually hit the rear bumper of her vehicle this would be an entirely different story. Since you are saying she hit the D/S QP of your vehicle, you would have clearly been established in your lane with no requirement to allow her to merge regardless of her intent, or your knowledge thereof.

Source: I used to be an auto-insurance adjuster.
 

D1gger

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
5,411
2
76
She is definitely at fault, but when I see someone driving unsafely as she did by almost hitting the car in front, I make damn sure to keep a lot of distance between me and the irresponsible driver.
 

Kelvrick

Lifer
Feb 14, 2001
18,422
5
81
No, his comprehension is fine.

He's not saying the lady isn't at fault. What he's saying is that the OP could have realized that the lady needed to turn left and adjusted his driving and avoided the accident all together. Instead, it seems OP continued on oblivious to the events that happened just seconds before. Rather than slow down a bit and allow the lady to lane change, he obviously kept going. Now he's paying the price for not taking note of what others around him are doing. Sure he won't have to cover the repair bills but it's time without his vehicle and it's value will depreciate.

Hindsight is 20/20. Could he have known at the time she was definitely going to swerve into him? I'm sure he knew beyond a doubt she was going to swerve into his lane and he continue right into it.

I hate this crap where if anything could have been avoided in anyway, the blame starts shifting over. No, if anything happens, it is the party who acts that results in the collision/accident/whatever who is at fault.

Guns can possibly be used by 5 year olds to shoot their sisters. Don't blame guns. Blame the parent for leaving a gun with a 5 year old unsupervised. If he had a knife and stabbed his sister, would you blame the knife?

Man robs liqueur store. It is not the liqueur store's fault for having a cash register full of cash!

Drunk driver rams his car into a house at the end of a cul de sac. WTF, why are the builders not leaving a through road?

I stubbed my toe on the nightstand getting up to take a piss at night. Why did my wife not buy the little motion sensor night light so I could see at night?
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,636
3,510
136
No, his comprehension is fine.

He's not saying the lady isn't at fault. What he's saying is that the OP could have realized that the lady needed to turn left and adjusted his driving and avoided the accident all together. Instead, it seems OP continued on oblivious to the events that happened just seconds before. Rather than slow down a bit and allow the lady to lane change, he obviously kept going. Now he's paying the price for not taking note of what others around him are doing. Sure he won't have to cover the repair bills but it's time without his vehicle and it's value will depreciate.

First of all, the OP said she was "turning left" not moving over.

Second, it's people who drive unpredictably that cause accidents. You see this all the time in Portland. Someone will want to turn left so cars coming the other way will stop in the middle of the road just to be "polite". Guess what often happens. The OP slowing down or stopping to let the old lady in could have ended up having someone run into the back of him. 100% on the crazy old lady, OP did nothing wrong.
 

mike2fix

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2001
6,715
0
76
Unfortunately, right or wrong, logic and common sense often go out the window when it comes to insurance companies assigning blame when what they have to pay is involved.
 

crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,858
0
76
Hindsight is 20/20. Could he have known at the time she was definitely going to swerve into him? I'm sure he knew beyond a doubt she was going to swerve into his lane and he continue right into it.

OP witnessed her just try to pull the same stunt and miss side swiping the car in front of him. You don't need the gift of foresight when you are witness to that act.

And I'm not trying to shift blame. Just impart some wisdom to the OP (or rather, agree with DrPizza's assessment) that might save him the time and hassle that all accident's result in regardless of who's at fault. If you see a bad driver then give them space so you can react if they continue to display bad driving. Slowing down costs you nothing but less time than an accident will cost you.
 

Kelvrick

Lifer
Feb 14, 2001
18,422
5
81
OP witnessed her just try to pull the same stunt and miss side swiping the car in front of him. You don't need the gift of foresight when you are witness to that act.

And I'm not trying to shift blame. Just impart some wisdom to the OP (or rather, agree with DrPizza's assessment) that might save him the time and hassle that all accident's result in regardless of who's at fault. If you see a bad driver then give them space so you can react if they continue to display bad driving. Slowing down costs you nothing but less time than an accident will cost you.

Agreed. My main rant is although he could have saved himself the trouble, fault in the end is hers.

Just to play devil's advocate some more, I see plenty of retards slow down, signal like they want to move over and realize its the wrong street, they actually wanted to go into the other lane (don't ask, i dont know), etc. Sometimes people can swerve a bit when changing their radio, whatever. You don't know what the heck is going on.
 

Tiamat

Lifer
Nov 25, 2003
14,068
5
71
I told the officer my side and when he came back after speaking to the other driver, he said that she said she didn't see me when trying to make the left.

She didn't see you most likely because she didn't even attempt to look properly. She failed to check her driver side blind spot and/or didn't have her driver side-view mirror set up correctly. With the little facts I've read here, she should be found to be 100% at fault. I hope your insurance company doesn't screw you over though...
 
Oct 20, 2005
10,978
44
91
She didn't see you most likely because she didn't even attempt to look properly. She failed to check her driver side blind spot and/or didn't have her driver side-view mirror set up correctly. With the little facts I've read here, she should be found to be 100% at fault. I hope your insurance company doesn't screw you over though...

And let's not forget that she didn't see him b/c she's turning left from a lane not designated to turn left.
 
Oct 20, 2005
10,978
44
91
Agreed. My main rant is although he could have saved himself the trouble, fault in the end is hers.

Just to play devil's advocate some more, I see plenty of retards slow down, signal like they want to move over and realize its the wrong street, they actually wanted to go into the other lane (don't ask, i dont know), etc. Sometimes people can swerve a bit when changing their radio, whatever. You don't know what the heck is going on.

It's hard to judge OP as to whether he could or could not have avoided it. Everything sounded like it happened really quickly and reaction time varies between people. Not only that, but OP may have thought he was in the clear after the lady failed the first time turning left. IMO it sounded like OP assessed the situation as best he could and I don't think anyone should blame OP in the least w/o actually being there and seeing what actually happened. Lastly, people like Dr.Pizza calling him an ass for not avoiding the accident is totally uncalled for.
 

Baked

Lifer
Dec 28, 2004
36,052
17
81
OP could've saved himself a lot of time and money by taking a couple defensive driving classes.

As others have said, in situations like this where you had the opportunity to foresee what can happen, I would slow the fuck down and let the event unfold before you rather than dive head in and expect for the best.
 

CountZero

Golden Member
Jul 10, 2001
1,796
36
86
OP could've saved himself a lot of time and money by taking a couple defensive driving classes.

As others have said, in situations like this where you had the opportunity to foresee what can happen, I would slow the fuck down and let the event unfold before you rather than dive head in and expect for the best.

How long between the first swerve and the accident did the OP have? You wouldn't claim he could have avoided the accident unless you knew this, right?
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
166
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
It's hard to judge OP as to whether he could or could not have avoided it. Everything sounded like it happened really quickly and reaction time varies between people. Not only that, but OP may have thought he was in the clear after the lady failed the first time turning left. IMO it sounded like OP assessed the situation as best he could and I don't think anyone should blame OP in the least w/o actually being there and seeing what actually happened. Lastly, people like Dr.Pizza calling him an ass for not avoiding the accident is totally uncalled for.

You're right, it was uncalled for. And, I apologize. I've just seen FAR too many people with that mentality of closing the gap to prevent people from changing lanes. And, in this case, with someone trying to move left, it very well seems that if there were an adequate gap - even maintaining a safe driving distance - she would have been able to get left safely.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
126
I hate this crap where if anything could have been avoided in anyway, the blame starts shifting over. No, if anything happens, it is the party who acts that results in the collision/accident/whatever who is at fault.

Guns can possibly be used by 5 year olds to shoot their sisters. Don't blame guns. Blame the parent for leaving a gun with a 5 year old unsupervised. If he had a knife and stabbed his sister, would you blame the knife?

Man robs liqueur store. It is not the liqueur store's fault for having a cash register full of cash!

Drunk driver rams his car into a house at the end of a cul de sac. WTF, why are the builders not leaving a through road?

I stubbed my toe on the nightstand getting up to take a piss at night. Why did my wife not buy the little motion sensor night light so I could see at night?
I hate this crap when some idiot tries to justify something by using an idiotic and bogus example.....
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,468
12,615
126
www.anyf.ca
In the common sense world it would be her fault but in the law world it's your fault for following too close, even though the car you were "following" only ended up being in front of you for a split second. Car accidents suck, it's usually easier to both just pay for your own damage and move on, but sadly sometimes that's not even legal since you HAVE to make a claim if the damage is higher than a certain amount. I think it's pure BS, but it's the way it works.
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
I'm going to give a slightly different reply:
You're an ass. At least when you're driving. You clearly saw that she was trying to make a left hand turn and realized there was a car along side her when she attempted to shift lanes. Rather than be polite and allow her to enter the lane, you apparently closed the distance to prevent her from entering your lane (otherwise she would have had plenty of room.) Well, at least it's pretty logical to assume this happened. Otherwise, your claim is that she was trying to turn left. Then decided, "no, I don't need to turn left." Then re-decided to turn left. While this accident was her fault, by the rules of the road, it was 100% preventable if you were a courteous (not to mention, defensive/intelligent) driver. But, you were in too much of a hurry, so now your car is damaged.

No, you're the ass.

You're making an awful lot of assumptions that you just do not know to be true.

Just thinking intuitively, if I were the lead car and someone tried to swerve into me, I would immediately slow down. Then if I were the trail car and a potential accident just happened in front of me, my initial response would be to slow down - but there would be a reaction delay, meaning that the distance between the cars will be reduced.

Slamming on your brakes is not a good option either because it's a busy highway, you don't want to cause an accident behind you.

It's a split-second to decide what is the safest route to go. You have to anticipate how the other driver is going to react, sometimes the courteous route is to speed ahead and let the person get in behind. Sometimes it's slowing down. The general rule is the left lanes go ahead, other cars merge in behind, that is usually the safer method of driving.


I was driving a highway, single lane each direction, following a van with solid rear doors (no windows to see through), keeping pace, safe distance away. Suddenly he swerves to the right onto the shoulder. What I didn't know was we were approaching an intersection with a car stopped in the lane to make a left-hand turn. This guy in front of me did not slow down one bit approaching the stopped car and passed on the shoulder at the last moment. I hit the brakes hard, look in my rearview mirror and see a giant moving van. Split-second to decide if I should continue to slam on the brakes, maybe I don't stop in time, this moving van behind me surely could not match me slamming the brakes, I had to swerve and pass on the shoulder. Of course a cop car is in the opposite lane, turns on his lights, and the asshole who was in the lead continued on down the road.

Driving on the interstate approaching an on-ramp, I was in the right-lane, car in the left-lane, beat-up old pickup truck with no rearview mirrors merging onto the interstate. I try to speed up to get ahead of him, he speeds up himself. I try slowing down, he slows down, then merges onto the interstate without ever looking, forcing me into the middle of two north-bound lanes with vehicles on both sides of me.

Another time traveling an interstate, speeding, around 75mph (speeding plays into my story). Am in the left lane and see in my rearview mirror a pair of motorcycles gaining on me, but still in the distance. Put on my turn signal, start shifting lanes, when I'm passed by the motorcycles in the middle of merging, one on each side of me, they had to have been doing 90+mph to gain and pass me so quickly.


You pride yourself on never being in an accident? Whoop-di-fucking-doo, we're sooooo not impressed.
 
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