Car computer chips ...

[undercover]

Anyone interested in car performance knows that a popular upgrade for an EFI car is the JetChip. They now have a program where you send off your chip and they mod it for you.

What I want to know is:

Does anyone know EXACTLY what they do? And do you need anything more than a soldiering gun?

 

[Evadman]

I would assume they use an E-prom reader/writer. That way Jet would be able to re-write the data in the E-prom, just like a BASIC chip.

Think of an E-prom as a Bios Chip. Except your car does not have a floppy drive to update it, so the chip is taken out, and put in a reader. That reader is very expensive. Hypertech has some that they sell, but a different one is needed for every make of computer. Also that Hypertech programer is $400-500 bucks

<Edit>
Soldering gun not required

 

[undercover]

D A Y M I T !

Was hoping there was a cheap way ;-)

I hate to pay someone to "overclock" my car

 

[Evadman]

Lol, no such luck Try the nearest speed shop, and see if you can "rent" the programmer

 

[undercover]

Oh great ... I can see it now

"Why does my new ride have black smoke pooring out the tail pipe?"

-"Maybe you clocked it ot high"

"Well I pumped it up to 10g.p.m"

hehehe

Oh man Oh man

 

[blahblah99]

I'm not sure if you want to go through the trouble of modding it yourself unless you can obtain the RIGHT code and programmer. One of my coworkers designed and built his own micro-controller for his car and he said it was extremely difficult because if the timing is misaligned a little, it can mess up the engine.

 

[Shalmanese]

Geez, you would hate it if your brakes became unstable at high speeds .

 

[Def]

Since the computer doesn't control your braking system(except for some basic ABS functions), I'd be more worried about the timing being off and a spark plug firing when the piston was halfway up on the compression stroke. Not many engines could take that and not have a gaping hole in their block.

Oh yea, unless your car has a Turbo(forced induction), I wouldn't bother with a "chip". Most modern cars have pretty optimized timing and fuel maps, and unless your engine is modified in such a way that the maps aren't anywhere close to optimal you won't get much of a gain. A chip can't improve volumetric efficiency, only try to tailor fuel and timing maps such that you get the most efficient burn with what you already have. Something like an intake/header/exhaust will be much more beneficial on modern cars that are corked up pretty well for noise purposes.

Basically, a near stock engine will gain maybe 1-3% more power from a chip. Although some domestics still have pretty terrible maps, so if you have a Mustang it might be worth your change if you don't want added noise.

-Defster

 

[Wolfie]

I agree with Def. Unless you have done some modifications it's best to leave the chip alone. If you did some intake/exhaust work then it would almost be required so you don't run it too lean. If you do any changes while it's still stock you may end up doing more work on your engine then it's worth. Save the money and save the headache.

Wolfie

 

[Evadman]

<< Basically, a near stock engine will gain maybe 1-3% more power from a chip >>



Most, but not all If you have a 99' and newer dodge cummins you can add 270+ HP and 300+lb/ft of torque with a chip ( actually a new computer, as dodge does not have a removable eprom )

The wastegate is computer controled

 

[Def]

<< Oh yea, unless your car has a Turbo(forced induction), >>



The wonders of a turbo. More boost + more fuel = more fun

-Defster

 

[undercover]

Evadman, I have a "friend" that has a 2001 For Excursion with like 44's on it. He put in a chip (or computer ... whatever) and got about 270hp. I hear that about a month later his transmission gave him the finger

As for my truck it's a 2000 Isuzu Rodeo with a 3.2L V6. Stock it has about 205hp, nothing to brag about. But the chip will (per Jet's stats) give me about a 17% gain in HP plus some fuel economy. Partner that with the headers, hi-flow cat, and flowmaster exhaust, hi-flow intake, and MSD ignition, I should push 330hp.

But that's me rambling ... thanks for all the info on the chips.

 

[d33pt]

geez..what's with the riceboy math? you REALLY believe adding a bunch of bolton's and a chip will give you 125hp increase?

 

[undercover]

d33pt,

this is my first import, so I am not 100% on anything. But like I said this is all on paper and not dino tested. I just put on a high flow intake today ... and well ... the tires spin on take-off now when the didn't before

But anyways ... yeah

 

[HKSturboKID]

Back like 7 yrs ago, I use to work in a speedshop. The chips that are available are, SUPERCHIP, Jet Chip, Hypertech, and G-Force which reprograms you computer. what a chip basically does is remove the speed limiter, increase the rev limit, use more gas and reprogram your map sensor to take in more air.

 

[SCSIRAID]

Car and Driver actually did a review article on 'chips' a while back. You might check their website. IIRC the bottom line was that higher performace cars already were quite optimized from a fuel map perspective while lesser marques received better benefits. Add in chips also do things like increase red lines, increase waste gate settings (higher boost) which could reduce service life. Holes in the pistons from detonation is not my idea of fun.

Edit- Car and Driver

 

[undercover]

Very good link.

Makes me think twice.

 

[454Casull]

<< A chip can't improve volumetric efficiency, only try to tailor fuel and timing maps such that you get the most efficient burn with what you already have. >>


I was under the impression that chips throw efficiency to the wind and go for a richer fuel mixture in order to achieve better power.

 

[Evadman]

<< I was under the impression that chips throw efficiency to the wind and go for a richer fuel mixture in order to achieve better power. >>


Some do, some don't. Sometimes you get better gas milege, sometimes it goes out the window. I get about 5 MPG. Icky

 

[Blundar]

I don't know sh!t about domestics, but hondas/acuras use standard eproms.
An eprom burner and some images and you are on your way.
Chipping a stock engine will not do much for you in most cases. After doing other work to the car, being able to adjust fuel maps and timing electronically can really make a big difference to performance numbers.
However, it is a big myth that you can completely change an engine's performance characteristics with a chip and no other upgrades.

Also it is a myth that you will lose your brakes or other such dumb sh!t. Brakes are controlled hydraulically (at least on every car I've worked on... Honda, Acura, Nissan, Toyota, Chevy) and the computer has nothing to do with braking performance, except in the case of ABS systems that most racers end up disabling anyways

If you want to get into modding chips yourself, it's more or less essential to have the assembler/disassembler for the microcontroller powering your car's computer. Otherwise, your going to be stuck doing binary compares between performance chips (assuming you can get your hands on them) to figure out where important things like fuel maps, timing maps, boost stuff, etc. or whatever else you want to change lies. On the average performance honda chip, timing is adavanced a few degrees, the injector timing is modulated to be slightly longer across the board (leading to a richer mixture) and on cars with a Vtec valvetrain, the point where the vtec solenoid engages can be changed to affect engine behavior.

Honestly, I'd stick to other engine, performance and suspension mods and when you run out of things to spend money on, THEN look at computer upgrades. They're generally a waste of money unless you are running boost on an engine not factory boosted, have a built engine, have done just about every bolt on, or changed fuel injectors to a larger set to handle boost/high HP conditions

 

[flot]

Yeah, performance chips suffer from major riceboy math. Do the rest of your mods first, then throw the chip on - it MAY help then, but as a first mod, probably not much. UNLESS you're talking about a turbo/supercharged engine. Even then, it's rarely the chip itself that does anything great - it's the increase in boost pressure. (although the chip may be needed to correct A/F ratios at the higher boost levels)

 

[azkiwi]

not to mention the OEMS have spent huge lolly optimizing the maps for the sweet spot between power/efficiency and service life. I mean this is a big selling point with vehicles so it is in their best interest to get it right. Who has more development money - Mr Honda or Superchip?

I meant to ask - does anyone know how much processor power these things usally have? Is there any way to equate them to PC chips - # of transistors?

 

[TurboMan]

<< I was under the impression that chips throw efficiency to the wind and go for a richer fuel mixture in order to achieve better power >>


Actually, if anything they take out fuel. It's the old saying...Lean is mean. Throwing more gas at an engine will actually slow it down... and drain your wallet. Adjusting the e-prom benifits turbo cars the most because you have control of both gas and air. You need to maintain the stoch. of 14.7 to 1 for best performance. E-prom tweaks also benefit cars with automatic transmissions more than stick. The computer is able to hold line pressure longer.