Car engine damaged - oil drain plug missing

[slag]

Do you not have any enemies that could have done it?

Most everyone does.

HUH? wtf? No, most people do not have enemies who would do something to their personal property. Not trying to be judgemental, but what kind of shitty life do you have and/or what kind of person are you?

 

[repoman0]

I have no scientific proof, but I would guess you have a matter of seconds once you've lost oil pressure.

This thread got me curious so I started reading a little more about it -- obviously this isn't scientific proof either but plenty of accounts where engines run for at least minutes without oil, up to 15 D: Pretty interesting!

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/113827/1

 

[jlee]

This thread got me curious so I started reading a little more about it -- obviously this isn't scientific proof either but plenty of accounts where engines run for at least minutes without oil, up to 15 D: Pretty interesting!

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/113827/1

I'd be curious to see pictures of the bearings after an engine was ran without oil...it might still run once refilled, but would think there'd be some bearing damage done.

 

[Raizinman]

HUH? wtf? No, most people do not have enemies who would do something to their personal property. Not trying to be judgemental, but what kind of shitty life do you have and/or what kind of person are you?

Really!? Unless you are Santa Claus everyone has some enemies. You've never cut off a driver? Snatched a parking place ahead of someone else? Perhaps you work in a job that has lots of enemies such as police officer? Attorney? Home Remodeler? Auto Mechanic? Postal Employee or for that matter pretty much any government employee? In todays world people will shoot you for cutting them off in traffic, how much more so they will get your license plate number or follow you home and loosen your drain plug. Whether you know it or not, you have enemies. Heck even Santa Claus has enemies of people his raindeer crapped on from the sky!

 

[lsd]

I'd be curious to see pictures of the bearings after an engine was ran without oil...it might still run once refilled, but would think there'd be some bearing damage done.

I'm not surprise, I ran an engine without oil for a few miles because there was nowhere safe to pull over. When I did a build a few years later there was no discernible damage. Possibly more wear on the bearings but absolutely no scoring anywhere. I attribute the lack of wear to using amsoil and keeping rpm low but who knows.

 

[DrPizza]

Really!? Unless you are Santa Claus everyone has some enemies. You've never cut off a driver? Snatched a parking place ahead of someone else? Perhaps you work in a job that has lots of enemies such as police officer? Attorney? Home Remodeler? Auto Mechanic? Postal Employee or for that matter pretty much any government employee? In todays world people will shoot you for cutting them off in traffic, how much more so they will get your license plate number or follow you home and loosen your drain plug. Whether you know it or not, you have enemies. Heck even Santa Claus has enemies of people his raindeer crapped on from the sky!

If you think that accidentally cutting off a driver is going to make someone your enemy - a person who would damage your property to get some sort of revenge, then you must live in a seriously f'd up part of the country. Rarely do I hear of someone damaging someone else's property around here for some sort of revenge.

 

[Midwayman]

I think the plug was installed by hand, finger tight, and then never tightened properly.
Over time, it gradually backed out.

My first thought about this too. Unfortunately its extremely difficult to prove months later. I think its probably the dealer's fault, but proving it is what matters. I'd talk to the dealer about it and see if maybe they'll comp you labor and/or give you parts at cost. If it were me, I'd see what I could get an engine at a salvage yard for and get a quote from an independent mechanic for installing it as well.

 

[Kelvrick]

how do you like them? I've considered getting one for my truck, but the whole spring system scares me a little bit (spring pressure to keep it shut)

I love it. I have the one with the nipple so that I can throw a hose on there and see the oil drain directly into my oil pan. No spill, no mess, no worrying about replacing the drain gasket.

I have one of those hose clamps on there like this.

I've seen some guys use a zip tie and apparently there is a little clip you can buy now.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LC-10-LEVER-CLIP-FOR-F-TYPE-FUMOTO-DRAIN-VALVE-/271939127000

If you think that accidentally cutting off a driver is going to make someone your enemy - a person who would damage your property to get some sort of revenge, then you must live in a seriously f'd up part of the country. Rarely do I hear of someone damaging someone else's property around here for some sort of revenge.

Maybe not a sane "normal" person. But maybe someone who is off his rocker, meds, or just having a really bad day and snaps. Road rage happens all the time. Statistically very small, but I think not something you can dismiss. All it takes is some maniac who decides to delay his revenge instead of the immediate cutting you back off, crashing into you, or going superman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Irk04ZgO9NQ

 

[razel]

Clearly vandalized or ran over something that damanged the pan near the bolt. General everyday driving will not make a oil plug screw come loose. It is deep enough. However I smell BS on the story as well. Everything is too tidy and makes the owner seem innocent. Real life stories are rarely such discrete and clean. The more fit and finish a story is the more thought went into it... that includes exclusion.

Regardless, it is not the dealer's fault 2-3 months in. I'd just go through insurance and state the facts. Depending on your coverage it could be your best option.

 

[Ferzerp]

You can probably get insurance to cover it if you carry comprehensive coverage since it is something that isn't a flat out mechanical failure. There was an event that caused the damage. Not knowing if the drain plug was purposefully loosened or incorrectly installed shouldn't really matter there. That type of thing is exactly what comprehensive is for (vandalism, theft, etc).

At the same time though, you continued to run the engine after the car notified you that it was unsafe, so they could make that argument as well.

 

[SearchMaster]

You can probably get insurance to cover it if you carry comprehensive coverage since it is something that isn't a flat out mechanical failure. There was an event that caused the damage. Not knowing if the drain plug was purposefully loosened or incorrectly installed shouldn't really matter there. That type of thing is exactly what comprehensive is for (vandalism, theft, etc).

At the same time though, you continued to run the engine after the car notified you that it was unsafe, so they could make that argument as well.

Yeah I think an insurance claim is the best bet and if they feel the dealer mangled it, the ins. co. might in turn go after them. I wouldn't worry about driving after the lights come on - hell, 99% of people wouldn't even know their idiot light is on or would ignore it. I'll take his word that he pulled over as soon as safely possible.

I knew a guy in college that knew a road was flooded after a hurricane came through but chose to drive through the 4 feet of water anyway. It ruined his engine but he made a successful insurance claim.

 

[Sabrewings]

how do you like them? I've considered getting one for my truck, but the whole spring system scares me a little bit (spring pressure to keep it shut)

I haven't had any problems with it staying shut on our various vehicles. Sure, the spring pressure is what holds the lever down, but there's quite a bit of pressure required to turn it as well.

If it's exposed and you drive through tall grass and brush that might catch it, then I would just suggest the clip or hose clamp method. Fumoto valves are great and I can't imagine not having one on our personal vehicles.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Since you cannot directly prove that Hyundai caused this problem and since you cannot 100% rule out that someone did not crawl under your car and did this while it was parked somewhere (perhaps someone with an identical car with a mad ex spouse), you therefore can't hold the dealership liable.

The standard of proof in civil cases is preponderance of evidence (colloquially referred to as "more likely than not"). OP would not have to prove things beyond a reasonable doubt to recover against the dealership. That said, given the time lapse between service and failure it's unlikely that OP could even meet the more relaxed preponderance of evidence standard used in civil cases.

ZV

 

[Ferzerp]

The standard of proof in civil cases is preponderance of evidence (colloquially referred to as "more likely than not"). OP would not have to prove things beyond a reasonable doubt to recover against the dealership. That said, given the time lapse between service and failure it's unlikely that OP could even meet the more relaxed preponderance of evidence standard used in civil cases.

ZV

You expect someone who gets paid to help those places weasel out of liability to be honest about the standards? :sneaky:

 

[gururu2]

drove out of a Sears oil change a couple of years ago with no oil for about a mile and drove back to tell them they forgot to put oil in. No harm done.

Sounds like a problem with the oil change to me.
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...clist-in-Road-Rage-Killing-CHP-305502841.html

 

[NuroMancer]

You mentioned it was parked for a while, how many KM's or miles between now and the oil change?

If its very small I'd work that angle rather then the 3 month angle.

 

[compnovice]

You mentioned it was parked for a while, how many KM's or miles between now and the oil change?

If its very small I'd work that angle rather then the 3 month angle.

Need to check, but I would think ~1500 miles. So not too small.

Manufacturer recommended oil change interval is 7500 miles

 

[Zenmervolt]

You expect someone who gets paid to help those places weasel out of liability to be honest about the standards? :sneaky:

Didn't realise Rainz was an attorney also. Seems we're everywhere.

ZV

 

[Gerle]

you veer to the right ASAP, probably turning the engine off as you move right

And have the steering lock up? I'm not sure I agree with you.

 

[leper84]

The insurance will not do anything!! The insurance will ask him the same questions before going to bat for him!!

They nwill also need proof in order to act! The insurance company is not your attorney!

As far as OP is concerned insurance will cut him/the shop a check for the engine minus his deductible and that's that. Whether they decide to go after the last place of service is up to them and their risk/reward for the situation. Depending on the cost of the engine it may be worth sending a letter to get the first dealer to settle.

If OP has full coverage they may decide to cover the engine. An outside force was the reason for the failure- just the same as a pothole might get you a wheel, knuckle, control arm and a strut. Whether it was a incompetent shop or vandalism it wasn't a mechanical failure and I'm sure the current dealer would go to bat for that. Depends on OP's insurance coverage/agent/adjuster.

I'll tell you I've seen insurance companies cover some seriously questionable sh*t; things you know the customer screwed up but they could argue were outside of their control.

 

[Ferzerp]

As far as OP is concerned insurance will cut him/the shop a check for the engine minus his deductible and that's that. Whether they decide to go after the last place of service is up to them and their risk/reward for the situation. Depending on the cost of the engine it may be worth sending a letter to get the first dealer to settle.

The only thing you left out is that if they do recover the cost from the first dealer, they will refund his deductible.

 

[LTC8K6]

And have the steering lock up? I'm not sure I agree with you.

Why would you turn the key that far if you have a steering wheel lock? You are aware of what's happening, and why you are turning off the engine, so you should be able to turn the engine off without locking the wheel.

My 2008 Jeep has no steering wheel lock, though. Many modern cars don't.

If you are referring to the loss of assist, that does not mean "lock up". It just gets harder to turn. Since you are shutting off the engine, you should be ready for this loss of assist, and it should not be a problem.

 

[Brian Stirling]

i'm inclined to agree. unless you catch it right as you see the low pressure sign, my guess is you're boned.

Some years ago (decades actually) at the annual Daytona Bike Week they did a stunt to entertain the mostly Harley crowd camped at the Cabbage Patch. They got an old Honda 750 or similar Japanese bike and drained the oil then started the bike and jammed the throttle wide open then raised the screaming motorcycle into the air with a crane. It just kept screaming and they eventually dropped the bike putting it out of its misery.


Brian

 

[CurrentlyPissed]

There are so many holes in this story that aren't adding up.

Let me try and just explain, not saying you are wrong. I'm wondering how legit this new dealer you went to is.

I was driving on a highway and suddenly there was no response from the engine (i could feel the car decelerating). Then the engine started responding again

This is not normal for a lack of oil, or oil pressure. Unless it went into limp mode (to protect itself due to lack of oil pressure for more than x minutes). Also you mention nothing about a CEL (check engine light), or low oil light. A low oil light comes on any time the vehicle detects 2 quarts low or more on oil ( this is for all manufactures ). So there is no way you went from no light, to engine stalling without this light ever coming on.

You then say

(oil pressure, abs and a few others)

Again, this sounds like the CSL (check system lighting) function whenever you turn the vehicle on and all the lights illuminate. This is so you know all lights work, at this point it sounds like the the engine was simply died, from who knows what reason. I'd bet recall.

You then say

I checked the oil which was near empty. I walked to a nearby gas station and bought oil and tried filled 2 quarts. Then I noticed that all oil drained right through.

The disptick only registers 2 quarts of oil (again this is across all manufactures). So if you seen any on this dipstick, then your vehicle was not empty on oil, low, sure, but this if you seen any on the stick this is why your low oil pressure light never came on. Because you were never more than 2 quarts low, you are just assuming you were due to lack of knowledge (not making fun).

You then say you seen oil drain out, these are very sensative to adding oil, too fast it runs out of the dipstick tube, or can easily overflow through the top of the filler neck, which is placed under a very cool looking plastic shroud, so you probably never seen oil "coming straight out" you probably simply added to fast and seen it coming out.

Heres where it gets sticky

I had the car towed to a nearby Hyundai dealer. The dealer diagnosis was that there is no drain plug which is probably because the last place the oil was changed (around 2-3 months back) did not install the plug properly.

So YOU never visibly seen the oil drain plug missing before the vehicle went there.


My bet, off your story. Dealership you went to is trying to get a customer pay engine job over a warranty one because it pays twice as good.

-10 years working at a dealership in service.

 

[Gerle]

Why would you turn the key that far if you have a steering wheel lock? You are aware of what's happening, and why you are turning off the engine, so you should be able to turn the engine off without locking the wheel.

My 2008 Jeep has no steering wheel lock, though. Many modern cars don't.

If you are referring to the loss of assist, that does not mean "lock up". It just gets harder to turn. Since you are shutting off the engine, you should be ready for this loss of assist, and it should not be a problem.

The way I read the OP it didn't seem like he was sure of what was going on until well after the fact. Excluding all the posters here, I'd like to see an average driver turn the key just far enough in this fairly stressful situation. So many of them can't even stay in their own lane with a perfectly healthy vehicle. I doubt they'd be able to turn the key just so, find a gap, pull over, all while the car is slowing down, in a construction zone with no shoulder. ATG posters yes, because they are all awesome, but the general texting while swerving public?