Car literally died on me

[Torn Mind]

1996 Camry Wagon, 3.0L

Just out of nowhere Monday, the car had difficulty continuing to fire after being started. It would turn on briefly than cut off. I added a small amount of gas from one of those red cans, and the car seemed to be running like it used to. But then, it suddenly died on the middle of the street. This, it was totally dead and not catching at all. So, I suspect something wore out and breathed its last. But I don't know what.

Now, I did the a quick for fuel by removing the banjo bolt, and it floods out of the fuel filter when the key is put into the start position, so I don't think it is fuel. The ignition coils seem to have about 2.3 ohms when it should be under one, but that is with a Centech multimeter from Harbor Freight. But it seems that those things are out of spec and need replacing...

I did not check the whole timing belt, but I took a peek and it is still tight.

Now, prior to this failure, there was a screechy noise coming from the right of the vehicle. The alternator has a nice smooth spin(pulled from junkyard to replace a busted one, then I put in a new diode, voltage regulator, and brushes, so it is not that.

So yeah, any help would be appreciated.

 

[C1]

I would first check the compression of each cylinder. (This is good anyways as it gives a quality check on the engine notwithstanding potential other issues.)

Next check fuel pressure "on the rail". (Sometimes the pump in the gas tank goes bad. Ive had cases where I used a bike pump & rag at the fuel tank inlet to put air pressure in the tank to push the needed fuel to the "rail".)

Next, check for ignition spark. There are different ways to do this. Pull one of the spark plugs out, connect the high voltage wire to it and hold the body of the plug against engine ground while someone turns the engine over. (You should see the spark.)

A crude way (if you have coils on each plug), is determine if you can detect the high voltage using the onboard radio or a portable radio. (Norm LaFave method.) Using a copper wire, wrap a bunch of turns around one of the plug ignition wires to create a pick up coil. Route the other end to the vicinity of a radio set to AM to detect the high voltage pulse in the radio's speaker (radio turned on to center dial). This method is useful when the issue involves the case of an intermittent as you can actually drive around while listening to your ignition. If the car cuts out because of ignition loss, then you should hear the loss in the inductively coupled am radio's speaker.

Good luck.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Clear signs of battery going kaput.

Start there

 

[Torn Mind]

Compression is solid. I easily get 180 and one even showed 210 after 5 cranks. Intake plenum and manifold are nasty though, with black everywhere, but that's another issue for another day.

 

[Torn Mind]

Clear signs of battery going kaput.

Start there

Before it totally died in the middle of the road, the problem was that it caught but died because it felt "starved". Then, after waiting and adding a little gas from a small red plastic can, it suddenly did catch and seemed to be "ok". Then I dropped my sister off to class and was going home and it died while driving. The alternator is fine because that was service just a few weeks ago because the old one died.

Tried it with my mom's good battery yesterday and while stuck on the road from her Toyota Matrix and it didn't catch either. Cranked fine but wouldn't catch. Battery is absolutely not the problem.

 

[gururu2]

crankshaft position sensor is my guess since you are getting no spark or combustion.

 

[jlee]

The coils have already tested out of spec...I would start with that before anything more complicated.

 

[NutBucket]

But even if one or two failed the engine would likely run....

 

[Torn Mind]

The coils have already tested out of spec...I would start with that before anything more complicated.

Actually, I am not 100 percent on the coils. Gonna use my Klein meter since the new Carquest one also reads 2.3 when the meter is set to 200.

Cam position center seems okay in the cold as well. Gonna check the crank position center next.

Removing the intake plenum was a bitch. The EGR valve has one bolt buried in there. Brutal placement. Need a deep 10mm socket.and some extensions.

 

[jlee]

But even if one or two failed the engine would likely run....

Ohhh..I was thinking single coil or one per bank, didn't realize that the Camry V6's were coil on plug that early. Yeah, scratch that idea.

 

[NutBucket]

Well, to be honest I'm not sure. Time for Google!

Edit: should be a 3VZ-FE which does not have individual coils. So yes, I suspect the coil even given the crap multimeter used to measure it.

 

[jlee]

Well, to be honest I'm not sure. Time for Google!

Edit: should be a 3VZ-FE which does not have individual coils. So yes, I suspect the coil even given the crap multimeter used to measure it.

I believe the Camry used the 1MZ-FE in '96, which is COP (the 3VZ-FE had very limited use in the US - only 92-93 Camry/ES300).

 

[Vdubchaos]

Before it totally died in the middle of the road, the problem was that it caught but died because it felt "starved". Then, after waiting and adding a little gas from a small red plastic can, it suddenly did catch and seemed to be "ok". Then I dropped my sister off to class and was going home and it died while driving. The alternator is fine because that was service just a few weeks ago because the old one died.

Tried it with my mom's good battery yesterday and while stuck on the road from her Toyota Matrix and it didn't catch either. Cranked fine but wouldn't catch. Battery is absolutely not the problem.

As in you took the battery out of her car and put it into yours?

Or did you try jumping it? Did you check the wires for corrosion? Follow the wire as well and make sure the ground contact is ok etc.

Assuming you are 100% sure, I would go check Fuel Relay/Fuse and move to Fuel Pressure Test

 

[LTC8K6]

it floods out of the fuel filter when the key is put into the start position

Is that good enough?

Your description sounds like weak flow.

Should be like 40-50 psi in the line.

 

[Torn Mind]

Is that good enough?

Your description sounds like weak flow.

Should be like 40-50 psi in the line.

I didn't actually see it since I didn't ask a helper to start the car. But the fuel filter was nasty, to say the least. Stuff happened yesterday and today and I haven't gotten a chance to test spark and fuel completely yet.

Some unlicensed solicitors really screwed up my psyche since my mom paid them off $120 dollars to do some shoddy body work to her Toyota Matrix and I was about to call the cops when she gave them the money and then they ran. Her justification was to pay 'em so they don't come back to vandalize our house.

 

[Torn Mind]

Klein meter tested the coil on plugs as in spec. Is it really such a chore to see a spark from a distance while the engine is cranking even in the middle of the night when it is dark? I did make sure the plug was grounded via jumper cables to the negative battery post.

I'm about to just throw parts at the fuel system anyway. I already tried with a single new coil on plug and the car didn't catch(gonna return it). I should have gotten horrible misfires if it were the case. The fuel filter was nasty, so it is a prime suspect.

 

[gururu2]

When this happened to my car, flat out died after pulling into an intersection, first thing I did was to start fiddling with the fuel system. Unplugged every injector couldn't see anything. I bought a coil too and returned it. Couldn't see sparks either at night. After much research I learned that it was worth to try the crankshaft position sensor. It costs 20 something bucks on amazon. It arrived in 3 days. It takes 5 minutes to change on my car. It screws into the transmission. I did that and it started on first kick.

 

[Torn Mind]

When this happened to my car, flat out died after pulling into an intersection, first thing I did was to start fiddling with the fuel system. Unplugged every injector couldn't see anything. I bought a coil too and returned it. Couldn't see sparks either at night. After much research I learned that it was worth to try the crankshaft position sensor. It costs 20 something bucks on amazon. It arrived in 3 days. It takes 5 minutes to change on my car. It screws into the transmission. I did that and it started on first kick.

I tried seeing sparks using the coil on plugs on my mom's Matrix and plugging in the Camry's (new) plug into that boot. Maybe the specs were off due to the plug not being designed for the Matrix, but I couldn't see spark there either. I suppose I have to be close to the plug see the light?

I also tried the spark plug tester with a screw type (like this) and that was worthless on crank but it did work when the Matrix's engine was running. I could see it and hear it then; I even fiddled with lengthening the gap. It seems like the inline tester like this or something similar with a longer, sturdier boot is the only way to go to definitively determine if light is coming out.

Yes, I have considered it a possibility the crank sensor could be the culprit. It is drenched in oil near the belt drive system on the 1MZ-FE. I'll probably go the pull-a-part route or if I decide to buy new, it will be a Denso. I don't need another connector breaking on me because the aftermarket tolerances are just too sloppy and crack the brittle plastic inside the harness; I already have to get a new/junkyard harness for one spark plug boot.

 

[TheSlamma]

Literal death is scary. I mean with a human you really only have a few minutes to bring them back.

 

[Torn Mind]

Update

Fuel is likely fine. I hooked up the pressure gauge and it read 40 psi when I cranked the engine, which is the proper spec according to Toyota.

I bought an inline spark tester at Autozone(it seems to be the same as the Harbor Freight one), it is not recessed plug friendly nor does it fit snugly in the boot, but I see no spark. Looks like I'm going to have to replace sensors, starting with the crank sensor.

 

[Torn Mind]

I think I found the culprit. Crank position sensor is indeed the problem. I put my Klein multimeter to ohms, and the readings are all over the place and inconsistent. Sometimes, it is 1 MegaOhm, other times, 6000 ohms, and even down to 1000 ohms if I reverse the leads. Toyota specs are 2060-3225 ohms in "hot" weather like 50+ degrees up to 100 degrees or so Fahrenheit.

Nasty greasy place because of leaking valve covers, and the sensor was covered in black goo inside as well.

 

[gururu2]

When I replaced mine, I hand tightened because of the difficult placement and it vibrated loose and I lost some tranny oil. I was finally able to tighten it carefully with a small wrench but check it occasionally.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

My sympathy. My '07 Focus stranded me on the highway Thursday. It was the alternator.

Glad you were able to just replace some (hopefully inexpensive) sensors.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I would check the dylithium crystal converter.....