Car Situation

[KarmaPolice]

Here is the situation.

1. 93 Camry was over heating. I got in a fender bender with it but otherwise it seems like it was in ok shape. Brought it into the dealership to get it fixed, they replaced the water pump.

2. Still overheating after a longer trip a week later. Bring it back, they take a look at it all day, and say its fine.

3. Drive it on a hour drive, over heats, smoke out the front.

4. Get it towed to the dealership, now they say its probably a head gasket or cracked head, and that it will cost like 2grand to fix.

Now what do I do in this situation. I am horrible with cars. Should I just buy a new car, but what can I find for 2-4k? Do I have any chance in getting them to take some responsibility for fixing the wrong thing that cost 700 dollars to fix, and then saying the car was fine the second time? Our family has had Toyotas for 20 years, very loyal, and this dealership is really not being consistant with what we have expereinced in the past.

Thoughts?

 

[Rio Rebel]

It sounds like this dealership has been fair to you in the past. It is certainly worth a try to see if they can work with you on this (like apply the cost of the last repair toward this one?). It's going to be expensive any way you slice it - nobody would eat the cost of repairing a cracked head because they may have misdiagnosed a problem earlier.

I think it's probably obvious to you after that point - how reliable/valuable will your car be after fixing it, and how does that compare to a car you could buy for your current budget?

 

[KarmaPolice]

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel
It sounds like this dealership has been fair to you in the past. It is certainly worth a try to see if they can work with you on this (like apply the cost of the last repair toward this one?). It's going to be expensive any way you slice it - nobody would eat the cost of repairing a cracked head because they may have misdiagnosed a problem earlier.

I think it's probably obvious to you after that point - how reliable/valuable will your car be after fixing it, and how does that compare to a car you could buy for your current budget?

This was the first time I brought it to this specific dealership.

I really don't know much about cars so i don't know what I should expect on the horizion about other things to fix and such. Its a manual and it seems that lately it has not been shifting so well and engaging first isn't so smooth. So, maybe a new transmission in the future?

I don't know what it would be worth after the fix.

 

[DOTC]

I would say they might be trying to screw you. I would definitely complain till they did the work for free.

 

[cprince]

I'm going to go with DOTC and say that they are trying to screw you. How does a bad head gasket or a cracked head lead to overheating? Do you remember what color smoke coming out of the front? If it's whitish, then it's water vapor and you have a leak somewhere in the cooling system.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Originally posted by: cprince
I'm going to go with DOTC and say that they are trying to screw you. How does a bad head gasket or a cracked head lead to overheating? Do you remember what color smoke coming out of the front? If it's whitish, then it's water vapor and you have a leak somewhere in the cooling system.

When I saw it, it was a whitish smoke.

I really don't know anything about cars but I think the cracked head is a result of the overheating and the source of the overheating is still there. So I think I run the risk of getting it fixed, and then having it STILL overheat...then again I don't know if my thoughts on this are correct.

 

[SearchMaster]

Originally posted by: cprince
I'm going to go with DOTC and say that they are trying to screw you. How does a bad head gasket or a cracked head lead to overheating? Do you remember what color smoke coming out of the front? If it's whitish, then it's water vapor and you have a leak somewhere in the cooling system.

I think it's the other way around - overheating lead to the cracked head.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Looking at the Kelly Blue book value of a 93 camry with 148k miles it says at most 2k in good condition. I recently got in a little accident with it so on the right side its kinda dented. Lights still work and from the front it looks fine on the right side its just bowed a little bit.

So 2grand to fix a car thats worth 2 grand, and which to me sounds like its going to continue to break sounds like a losing propostion correct?

Think if I complain enough I can get my 700 back for the waterpump?

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: SearchMaster

Originally posted by: cprince
I'm going to go with DOTC and say that they are trying to screw you. How does a bad head gasket or a cracked head lead to overheating? Do you remember what color smoke coming out of the front? If it's whitish, then it's water vapor and you have a leak somewhere in the cooling system.

I think it's the other way around - overheating lead to the cracked head.

Ditto.

OP, get another car, it's not worth the considerable headache to fix the old heap at this point.

You're in NC right? Anywhere near Charlotte? I used to live over by 77@85, Beatties Ford road. It was like a jungle in the Summer! HOT! HUMID!

Anyways :

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/car/594974597.html

That's a '93 Grand Marquis with only 70k miles for $2500. Hard to beat that kind of car for general longevity. Fuel economy will be worse than the Camry, but moderate driving habits should net 18-22 out of it.

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/car/594276078.html

Saturn w/54k miles, not the prettiest car but pretty reliable, much better fuel economy than the Mercury, and pretty practical with the wagon aspect.

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/car/588562094.html

Toyota Corolla (sold under the Geo badge, lol), only 67k miles, great deal for $3k, properly maintained these things see 200-250k miles with ease.

 

[woodie1]

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I think it's the other way around - overheating lead to the cracked head.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Most likely the real deal. When the water pump went out you drove too long and the head cracked.

Don't know why the dealership didn't pick up on that though when they repaired the water pump.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: woodie1
---------------------------------------------------------------
I think it's the other way around - overheating lead to the cracked head.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Most likely the real deal. When the water pump went out you drove too long and the head cracked.

Don't know why the dealership didn't pick up on that though when they repaired the water pump.

The car overheated after the water pump was replaced too, which is when the head cracked. The dealership claimed to fix the overheating problem, did not, examined the car a second time, claimed there was no problem, and after that, the car overheated and cracked the head.

ZV

 

[LTC8K6]

"How does a bad head gasket or a cracked head lead to overheating?"

Steam pockets form in the water passages, iirc. This impedes coolant flow because steam won't pump.

The bad head gaskets on my Taurus caused an overheat indication on the water temp gauge and a lack of heat in the car.

The only symptom at first was no heat. The temp gauge indication and massive coolant losses came later.

I drove it several times with the temp gauge pegged, trying to diagnose.

The steam would reach the temp sensor and peg the gauge.

The heads were fine. 2 new gaskets and all problems were gone.

 

[lurk3r]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: SearchMaster

Originally posted by: cprince
I'm going to go with DOTC and say that they are trying to screw you. How does a bad head gasket or a cracked head lead to overheating? Do you remember what color smoke coming out of the front? If it's whitish, then it's water vapor and you have a leak somewhere in the cooling system.

I think it's the other way around - overheating lead to the cracked head.

Ditto.

OP, get another car, it's not worth the considerable headache to fix the old heap at this point.

You're in NC right? Anywhere near Charlotte? I used to live over by 77@85, Beatties Ford road. It was like a jungle in the Summer! HOT! HUMID!

Anyways :

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/car/594974597.html

That's a '93 Grand Marquis with only 70k miles for $2500. Hard to beat that kind of car for general longevity. Fuel economy will be worse than the Camry, but moderate driving habits should net 18-22 out of it.

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/car/594276078.html

Saturn w/54k miles, not the prettiest car but pretty reliable, much better fuel economy than the Mercury, and pretty practical with the wagon aspect.

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/car/588562094.html

Toyota Corolla (sold under the Geo badge, lol), only 67k miles, great deal for $3k, properly maintained these things see 200-250k miles with ease.

And again, overheating may have cracked the head, I would definitely get a second opinion, no way I'd spend $2k on a 93 with 200k + miles, event if the interior was mint

 

[KarmaPolice]

Originally posted by: lurk3r

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: SearchMaster

Originally posted by: cprince
I'm going to go with DOTC and say that they are trying to screw you. How does a bad head gasket or a cracked head lead to overheating? Do you remember what color smoke coming out of the front? If it's whitish, then it's water vapor and you have a leak somewhere in the cooling system.

I think it's the other way around - overheating lead to the cracked head.

Ditto.

OP, get another car, it's not worth the considerable headache to fix the old heap at this point.

You're in NC right? Anywhere near Charlotte? I used to live over by 77@85, Beatties Ford road. It was like a jungle in the Summer! HOT! HUMID!

Anyways :

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/car/594974597.html

That's a '93 Grand Marquis with only 70k miles for $2500. Hard to beat that kind of car for general longevity. Fuel economy will be worse than the Camry, but moderate driving habits should net 18-22 out of it.

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/car/594276078.html

Saturn w/54k miles, not the prettiest car but pretty reliable, much better fuel economy than the Mercury, and pretty practical with the wagon aspect.

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/car/588562094.html

Toyota Corolla (sold under the Geo badge, lol), only 67k miles, great deal for $3k, properly maintained these things see 200-250k miles with ease.

And again, overheating may have cracked the head, I would definitely get a second opinion, no way I'd spend $2k on a 93 with 200k + miles, event if the interior was mint

It has like a 148k but yeah, still a lot of miles.

I was looking online today and fround a 96 jetta for 3k with 100k miles on it brand new transmission and service records for 9 years straight.

Might check it out. I've always wanted a Jetta.

I called the garage again today, they are giong to call back with an opinion of what to do but I don't think they are going to help me out price wise at all.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: KarmaPolice

Originally posted by: lurk3r

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: SearchMaster

Originally posted by: cprince
I'm going to go with DOTC and say that they are trying to screw you. How does a bad head gasket or a cracked head lead to overheating? Do you remember what color smoke coming out of the front? If it's whitish, then it's water vapor and you have a leak somewhere in the cooling system.

I think it's the other way around - overheating lead to the cracked head.

Ditto.

OP, get another car, it's not worth the considerable headache to fix the old heap at this point.

You're in NC right? Anywhere near Charlotte? I used to live over by 77@85, Beatties Ford road. It was like a jungle in the Summer! HOT! HUMID!

Anyways :

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/car/594974597.html

That's a '93 Grand Marquis with only 70k miles for $2500. Hard to beat that kind of car for general longevity. Fuel economy will be worse than the Camry, but moderate driving habits should net 18-22 out of it.

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/car/594276078.html

Saturn w/54k miles, not the prettiest car but pretty reliable, much better fuel economy than the Mercury, and pretty practical with the wagon aspect.

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/car/588562094.html

Toyota Corolla (sold under the Geo badge, lol), only 67k miles, great deal for $3k, properly maintained these things see 200-250k miles with ease.

And again, overheating may have cracked the head, I would definitely get a second opinion, no way I'd spend $2k on a 93 with 200k + miles, event if the interior was mint

It has like a 148k but yeah, still a lot of miles.

I was looking online today and fround a 96 jetta for 3k with 100k miles on it brand new transmission and service records for 9 years straight.

Might check it out. I've always wanted a Jetta.

I called the garage again today, they are giong to call back with an opinion of what to do but I don't think they are going to help me out price wise at all.

Jettas are ok, gotta keep up that maintenance and keep rainy-day (read; car-service $$) money put aside though. Nice car, and pretty nice interior.

The Corolla/Prism is probably the safest bet for a long-term reliable car in that price range. 67k miles is incredibly low.

Best of luck and happy motoring!

 

[dirtboy]

The question is, when they replaced the water pump, did they do something that caused the next problem. Even if they did, you nor anyone else can probably prove it.

Is a cracked head worth fixing? No.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: dirtboy
The question is, when they replaced the water pump, did they do something that caused the next problem. Even if they did, you nor anyone else can probably prove it.

Is a cracked head worth fixing? Not on a '93 Camry.

Fixed. It's worth fixing a cracked head provided the cost of repair is significantly less than the worth of the vehicle post-repair. A good example would be something like a '95 Supra TT. With a broken motor, they're still sought-after and somewhat valuable, but fixing a cracked head on one would give you a $25k+ car instead of a parts/fixer-upper car.

But I get your point, most of the time you crack a head on a moderately to heavily used car, you may as well just replace the car than screw with repairs. Even if you fix the head, who knows what else you're going to have to deal with in the immediate/intermediate future maintenance-wise.

 

[Dudewithoutapet]

Well you guys have to remember this is at the dealership, if you can find a trustworthy mechanic in the area, it would probably cost anywhere from 25-50% less. At 2k, you may as well do an engine swap for one with lower miles. I drive a '92 Previa (mid engine, rear wheel drive), I remember I could do an engine swap (which is harder b/c of the mid engine) for like 1.3k ish or replace the head gasket at $800.

 

[bigpow]

Karma, get a 2nd opinion from other place
Ask your family, friends, co-workers if they know a reputable mechanic

if it really comes down to a point that it needs a 2 grand repair, then I'd seriously look at getting a new car.
Arkaign said it well, a repair should not exceed the value of the vehicle

I imagine the dealer probably charged you at least $600 to replace the water pump, and now this.
It's only going to get worse as the car is old & tired. Time to cut loss.

I've an old 98 corolla beater, and when the day come where it requires any major repair - it's going to the scrapyard.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: dirtboy
The question is, when they replaced the water pump, did they do something that caused the next problem. Even if they did, you nor anyone else can probably prove it.

Is a cracked head worth fixing? Not on a '93 Camry.

Fixed. It's worth fixing a cracked head provided the cost of repair is significantly less than the worth of the vehicle post-repair. A good example would be something like a '95 Supra TT. With a broken motor, they're still sought-after and somewhat valuable, but fixing a cracked head on one would give you a $25k+ car instead of a parts/fixer-upper car.

But I get your point, most of the time you crack a head on a moderately to heavily used car, you may as well just replace the car than screw with repairs. Even if you fix the head, who knows what else you're going to have to deal with in the immediate/intermediate future maintenance-wise.

This is the conventional wisdom, but in certain situations I tend to disagree with it. If the rest of the car is in good shape, then I tend to advocate fixing the problem rather than replacing the vehicle provided that there is a reasonable expectation that the vehicle will continue to be reliable in the future. Basically, I judge the repair costs against the probable future repair costs and the costs of replacing the broken vehicle.

In the OP's case, I think you're right and it's probably time for him to cut and run, but in cases where the rest of the car is in good shape and a repair is likely to keep the car running reliably for the foreseeable future I recommend the repair even if it exceeds the value of the vehicle.

ZV