Car speed tiers confuse me nowadays

[Lean L]

For some reason I was looking up the Toyota Sequoia for for shits and giggles. This massive, 6k pound, rolling family room of a car is able to haul ass to 60mph from a dead stop in just under 6 seconds.

http://www.060calculator.com/cars/2013/toyota/sequoia/31255

I notice this trend in quite few larger cars. These behemoths are able to drag race with entry level sports cars and win, allthewhile providing great comfort.

So if we take a look at car speed tiers they pretty much are aligned like this in order of fastest to slowest:

• 
  Expensive super cars
  Expensive sports cars
  Expensive Luxury vehicles
  Giant SUVs / Loaded work trucks
  Entry level sports cars / entry level luxury cars / loaded family sedans
  Loaded minivans
  Entry level sedans / loaded sub compacts
  Entry level minivans
  Entry level sub compacts
  Prius

This Sequoia can race an a4 and it would be a toss up assuming both are auto.

Curious that this is the case. I would expect that they make the smaller lighter cars faster (at least the entry level luxury vehicle department).

 

[MrCassdin]

Every day cars have been getting more and more powerful for about 20 years now.

In the 80s and 90s if you had 200HP you had a "fast" car. Now days Honda sells 200HP four bangers (and has for several years) in their family sedans. Your average V6 anything is around 300HP, no production V8 in the last 5 years is under 300 HP - most are pushing 400 if not more - in every day cars.

I say get them while you can, I think most of the high powered models will be gone by 2020, we already see them going with V6s getting dropped the last several years in favor of four bangers. Some of them have turbos, yes.

 

[JulesMaximus]

For some reason I was looking up the Toyota Sequoia for for shits and giggles. This massive, 6k pound, rolling family room of a car is able to haul ass to 60mph from a dead stop in just under 6 seconds.

http://www.060calculator.com/cars/2013/toyota/sequoia/31255

I notice this trend in quite few larger cars. These behemoths are able to drag race with entry level sports cars and win, allthewhile providing great comfort.

So if we take a look at car speed tiers they pretty much are aligned like this in order of fastest to slowest:

• Expensive super cars
  Expensive sports cars
  Expensive Luxury vehicles
  Giant SUVs / Loaded work trucks
  Entry level sports cars / entry level luxury cars / loaded family sedans
  Loaded minivans
  Entry level sedans / loaded sub compacts
  Entry level minivans
  Entry level sub compacts
  Prius

This Sequoia can race an a4 and it would be a toss up assuming both are auto.

Curious that this is the case. I would expect that they make the smaller lighter cars faster (at least the entry level luxury vehicle department).

Bigger heavier vehicles like the Sequoia have big, powerful, gas-guzzling engines.

Incidentally, the Camry Hybrid is actually quicker than the ICE 4-cylinder Camry, but not quicker than the 6-cylinder Camry.

 

[LTC8K6]

I have the 5.7L Hemi in my Grand Cherokee. It really moves when you step on it.

The Sequoia would be far behind the Audi after the first curve...

 

[Lean L]

I have the 5.7L Hemi in my Grand Cherokee. It really moves when you step on it.

The Sequoia would be far behind the Audi after the first curve...

True. No one really gets into a real race though unless you are on a track.

I'm just thinking of the hilarious situation in which these two go red light to red light and the Sequoia trumps an a4.

 

[Fritzo]

Every day cars have been getting more and more powerful for about 20 years now.

In the 80s and 90s if you had 200HP you had a "fast" car. Now days Honda sells 200HP four bangers (and has for several years) in their family sedans. Your average V6 anything is around 300HP, no production V8 in the last 5 years is under 300 HP - most are pushing 400 if not more - in every day cars.

I say get them while you can, I think most of the high powered models will be gone by 2020, we already see them going with V6s getting dropped the last several years in favor of four bangers. Some of them have turbos, yes.

In the 80's, if your car did 0-60 in under 8 seconds, it was quick, and if you could do it in under 7 seconds it was amazing.

Now a Ford Taurus can go that fast. It's also part of the reason that the price/income ratio of cars is so outrageous. People demand performance, and you have to keep adding safety systems to protect against that extra speed, and therefore you get a $20000 car that costs $35000.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

I have a fiesta st. It does zero to 60 around the 6 second mark. Sure the sequio would be right there up to 60 but what about up to 140? The sequio shoots its load early and you still feel like you're driving a land barge.

 

[jlarsson]

First off ... that site estimates 0-60 times using some formula. It says to input HP using HP at the flywheel (not necessary advertised horsepower, since we know manufacturer's measure HP differently).

Secondly, if you click the "estimated time" link under the 5.96 seconds, you'll see that the 5.9 seconds was with a dual clutch transmission. Does the Sequioa really have a DCT? If you run the estimate with "automatic", the time drops to 6.7 seconds (which seems a bit more realistic).

 

[JulesMaximus]

For some reason I was looking up the Toyota Sequoia for for shits and giggles. This massive, 6k pound, rolling family room of a car is able to haul ass to 60mph from a dead stop in just under 6 seconds.

http://www.060calculator.com/cars/2013/toyota/sequoia/31255

I notice this trend in quite few larger cars. These behemoths are able to drag race with entry level sports cars and win, allthewhile providing great comfort.

So if we take a look at car speed tiers they pretty much are aligned like this in order of fastest to slowest:

• Expensive super cars
  Expensive sports cars
  Expensive Luxury vehicles
  Giant SUVs / Loaded work trucks
  Entry level sports cars / entry level luxury cars / loaded family sedans
  Loaded minivans
  Entry level sedans / loaded sub compacts
  Entry level minivans
  Entry level sub compacts
  Prius

This Sequoia can race an a4 and it would be a toss up assuming both are auto.

Curious that this is the case. I would expect that they make the smaller lighter cars faster (at least the entry level luxury vehicle department).

By the way, I wouldn't put too much stock in what is reported on that website you linked. It lists the 2013 Camry Hybrid at 156hp and over 10 seconds 0-60mph but real world tests clocked the Camry Hybrid at around 7 seconds and rate it at a combined power output of 200hp.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

I notice this trend in quite few larger cars. These behemoths are able to drag race with entry level sports cars and win, allthewhile providing great comfort.

Your confusion lies in great comfort whilst a redwood forest is destroyed. :thumbsdown:

 

[DaTT]

It's all in the gearing my friend.

 

[Fritzo]

It's all in the gearing my friend.

+1

This is why trucks can have 800HP and only go 75MPH.

 

[thomsbrain]

Car and Driver tested the Sequoia at 6.6 seconds to 60. That's the same as a 4-cylinder Honda Accord.

And with that objective, real-world data that I obtained in less than one minute of googling, we can confidently state that the premise of this thread is 100% bogus.

 

[KentState]

It's pretty easy to get a huge engine and wide tires in a larger car, plus the weight helps on the launch.

 

[Midwayman]

Most of the powerful trucks and SUVs I see have a great 0-40 time (relatively) but suck ass 40-100 or so. At least compared to a car that performs similarly in the stop light drags.

And yah, 6s 0-60 isn't anything special these days. Its "sporty"

 

[Zenmervolt]

I have a fiesta st. It does zero to 60 around the 6 second mark.

6.7 seconds is not "around the 6 second mark." It's "a bit under 7," but not even close to "around 6."

ZV

 

[CrimsonWolf]

C&D tested my 2010 RAV4 V6 at 6.4 seconds for 0-60. It's pretty zippy for a practical car.

When I bought it the sales guy half-joked that I bought the fastest car Toyota sold. That just made me sad.

 

[LTC8K6]

Most of the powerful trucks and SUVs I see have a great 0-40 time (relatively) but suck ass 40-100 or so. At least compared to a car that performs similarly in the stop light drags.

And yah, 6s 0-60 isn't anything special these days. Its "sporty"

I think the 6/7/8 speed automatics are quickening up that after 40mph part a bit these days.

 

[LTC8K6]

6.7 seconds is not "around the 6 second mark." It's "a bit under 7," but not even close to "around 6."

ZV

That was an estimate.

In the test it was 7.0 even.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-ford-fiesta-st-instrumented-test-review

 

[Zenmervolt]

I think the 6/7/8 speed automatics are quickening up that after 40mph part a bit these days.

It's that and increases in shift speed. It used to be that a half-second swing could be had depending on whether you had to shift into 3rd to get to 60.

Now with automatics shifting faster and torque converters going full lockup as early as 2nd gear it's much more feasible to get quick 0-60 numbers even if the car needs to shift into 3rd to get there.

Plus, what's good for efficiency is also good for power. The cleaner the burn, the more complete it is, which means more of the energy is being turned into power so as cars get cleaner, they get more powerful and more efficient too.

Of course, cars are getting heavier too and we're seeing the downside of that.

With "only" 217 hp back in '87 the 944 Turbo managed a 0-60 time of 5.9 seconds and the updated 247 hp model managed 0-60 in 5.5 back in '89. Granted, that was a relative lightweight compared to cars today (just under 2,800 pounds for the '87 and just over 2,900 pounds for the '89) but still, we seem to not quite be getting the same acceleration out of the power that we used to.

That was an estimate.

In the test it was 7.0 even.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-ford-fiesta-st-instrumented-test-review

Hmm, slower than my ancient Volvo.

ZV

 

[ponyo]

I have a fiesta st. It does zero to 60 around the 6 second mark. Sure the sequio would be right there up to 60 but what about up to 140? The sequio shoots its load early and you still feel like you're driving a land barge.

Can the fiesta even hit 140? Or will it blowup before then?

 

[Throckmorton]

It's that and increases in shift speed. It used to be that a half-second swing could be had depending on whether you had to shift into 3rd to get to 60.

Now with automatics shifting faster and torque converters going full lockup as early as 2nd gear it's much more feasible to get quick 0-60 numbers even if the car needs to shift into 3rd to get there.

Plus, what's good for efficiency is also good for power. The cleaner the burn, the more complete it is, which means more of the energy is being turned into power so as cars get cleaner, they get more powerful and more efficient too.

Of course, cars are getting heavier too and we're seeing the downside of that.

With "only" 217 hp back in '87 the 944 Turbo managed a 0-60 time of 5.9 seconds and the updated 247 hp model managed 0-60 in 5.5 back in '89. Granted, that was a relative lightweight compared to cars today (just under 2,800 pounds for the '87 and just over 2,900 pounds for the '89) but still, we seem to not quite be getting the same acceleration out of the power that we used to.



Hmm, slower than my ancient Volvo.

ZV

I think it's just that the power comes at higher RPM now

 

[Zenmervolt]

I think it's just that the power comes at higher RPM now

Depends on what you're talking about.

The 944 Turbo was dead below 3,000 RPM and made the bulk of its power over 4,000 RPM because the turbo didn't begin to spool until 3,000. Modern turbo cars have much more power at low RPM than older ones did.

It's really just American engines that have gotten better at high RPM. European and Japanese engines have mostly had their low-RPM performance improved.

I think it's more to do with gearing cars taller for efficiency and the weight increases because the power curves today are far less peaky than they used to be.

ZV

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

6.7 seconds is not "around the 6 second mark." It's "a bit under 7," but not even close to "around 6."

ZV

Geez. Can you respond to anything without the pompous attitude? If I was overly concerned with 0 to 60 times I would have gotten a mustang. Sometimes cars are about more than the numbers. I like hatchbacks and going from 110hp (Honda fit) to 190hp seemed like a hell of an upgrade. Sorry it doesn't satisfy your numbers pissing contest you're having with yourself.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Can the fiesta even hit 140? Or will it blowup before then?

lol. I guess all the car mags got it wrong. You guys are right. Only bmw, audi, or bugatti can make a car worthy of at garage.