Car won't start after making multiple short stops

[MrSquished]

This has been an ongoing saga for over a year. My car is a 2000 Acura 3.2TL. It always starts right away during any cold start aka the first start of the day.

Now, if I make a stop, say 15 minutes long, and get back in, it starts just fine. But, if I do that another time or two, it won't start. It turns like crazy and sputters a bit. Eventually, after 3-5 minutes, I can get it to start by really finagling it. I'm a realtor, so often I am out there seeing 5 properties in a row back to back to back. So that's multiple stops and then a hot start.

Took it to a mechanic the first time, and they changed either the fuel pressure gauge or the fuel temperature gauge. I can't remember which, and if both of those are actually real things.That fixed the issue for a year or so.

A year later, it started doing it again. This time, they replaced the whole fuel pump, and that didn't fix it. So, I took it to another trusted family mechanic and they literally were completely flummoxed. The only thing they did to address that situation was put spark plug cleaner fluid into my tank.

Well, that didn't work at all either.

However, today I made 5 starts, all within 15-20 minute intervals of each other...and it started fine. It was a cold day, just below freezing. So, I'm thinking temperature has something to do with it maybe? I mean, obviously temperature does have something to do with it, as no matter what, on any first start of the day, it works like a charm, before the engine gets very hot.

Help!

 

[Rifter]

Had a similar issue with a old civic, it was a intermittent failing fuel pump relay. sometimes it worked and everything was great sometimes it didnt and would not start as the fuel pump would not turn on. Would always start after overnight though just like your situation.

EDIT TO ADD. It was by the fuse block by your left foot on my civic, to get it to start hitting it with something would usually get it to go as a temp fix.

 

[Rifter]

this may help

http://repairpal.com/where-is-the-fuel-pump-relay-on-a-1996-acura-32tl-404

apparently it may even be repairable

 

[RLGL]

To start:
When the engine will not start we need to know two things: Fuel pressure and cranking voltage.
With that info we can proceed

 

[NutBucket]

When it doesn't start, get out and smell the tailpipe. If it doesn''t smell like gas then it is likely the fuel pump relay.

 

[mindless1]

I don't know the engine in those, so these are generic suggestions. I'd clean the mass air flow sensor, check fuel rail pressure to determine if it's in a good range when the problem occurs (obviously measuring in a state where it's going to start, doesn't tell you as much).

I'd consider the age of the vehicle and what maintenance needs done, and who is doing it. Spark plug cleaner fluid? If the plugs are old and worn out, it is time to replace them. If they are the originals, it is time to replace them. If they are getting fouled, the fault causing that should be fixed as that is not the primary source of, just a symptom of the underlying problem. They should have been pulled and each examined, and while they are out, they might as well be replaced unless it has happened recently which you didn't mention. If it's on original spark plug wires and fuel filter, they are due for replacement too. I can only assume other things are not grossly wrong like an air filter that's not near completely clogged.

I assume there are no OBDII trouble codes set?

One thing you can try is when it won't start, spray starting fluid into the intake to see if that at least gets it firing until the vapor from that is gone, but the better method is the more scientific one of having a fuel pressure gauge to measure it, and you can release pressure from the fuel rail valve and see if it builds up again by just pressing it again even without a gauge.

 

[MrSquished]

To start:
When the engine will not start we need to know two things: Fuel pressure and cranking voltage.
With that info we can proceed

I have no idea how to figure that out. It cranks real good though

 

[MrSquished]

I don't know the engine in those, so these are generic suggestions. I'd clean the mass air flow sensor, check fuel rail pressure to determine if it's in a good range when the problem occurs (obviously measuring in a state where it's going to start, doesn't tell you as much).

I'd consider the age of the vehicle and what maintenance needs done, and who is doing it. Spark plug cleaner fluid? If the plugs are old and worn out, it is time to replace them. If they are the originals, it is time to replace them. If they are getting fouled, the fault causing that should be fixed as that is not the primary source of, just a symptom of the underlying problem. They should have been pulled and each examined, and while they are out, they might as well be replaced unless it has happened recently which you didn't mention. If it's on original spark plug wires and fuel filter, they are due for replacement too. I can only assume other things are not grossly wrong like an air filter that's not near completely clogged.

I assume there are no OBDII trouble codes set?

One thing you can try is when it won't start, spray starting fluid into the intake to see if that at least gets it firing until the vapor from that is gone, but the better method is the more scientific one of having a fuel pressure gauge to measure it, and you can release pressure from the fuel rail valve and see if it builds up again by just pressing it again even without a gauge.

I meant to say fuel injector cleaner, not spark plug cleaner. Pardon.

 

[MrSquished]

So fuel relay pump seems to be the most named culprit. That part can be affected by temperature? Since this only happens when the car is good and hot. Thanks

 

[RLGL]

Cranking voltage: Connect a dvm to the battery, have someone crank the engine while you observe the lowest voltage on the meter while the starter is engaged.

 

[mindless1]

If the engine is turning over normal speed then your crank voltage is fine. Fuel pump relay, get a diagram for your vehicle's electrical box and swap the fuel pump relay with an identical relay used for something less important, drive for a while and once you become confident that it's fixed, buy a new relay and swap them around again.

Another alternative is you can measure for voltage on the output of the relay with a multimeter or test light, when fuel pump should be running of course.

You'd check fuel rail pressure with a gauge you can get as a loaner tool from Autozone and some others, presuming there's a schrader valve on it (past the last fuel injector).

 

[natto fire]

So fuel relay pump seems to be the most named culprit. That part can be affected by temperature? Since this only happens when the car is good and hot. Thanks

Yes, because the coil heats up from use. I had two Integras that had this problem, as well as friends with Civics, Preludes and Accords. It is a very common Honda problem.

Another common problem that leads to not starting on older Hondas is the igniter going bad in the distributor. If I remember right, the J32 engine in your TL has coil on plug and should not have this problem.

A hot engine definitely exacerbated an igniter failure, but if you have the coil on plug setup, then you only have a cam sensor and not a distributor with sensors and igniter.

As far as checking fuel pressure, that seems more complicated than an easier way to check if your main relay is acting up. When the car is cold, and it is quiet around, turn the key to just on. You should be able to hear two audible clicks from the main relay priming the fuel system. You might even be able to hear the fuel pump whirr as it brings the system up to pressure.

Learn that sound and see if it goes away after the car warms up. Much easier than dealing with a fuel pressure gauge.

 

[sontakke]

It is a Honda. So the most likely culprit is the main relay under the dash. Couple of solders on it crack and leads to this specific symptoms. They are NOT that expensive.

 

[chubbyfatazn]

So fuel relay pump seems to be the most named culprit.

Fuel pump relay, not a pump. Something like this:

Not sure if you just mixed up the word order, but just making sure...

 

[Accord99]

Yes, those symptoms matched those on a 99 Accord that I had, where I occasionally had problems starting on warmer days or colder days. The fix was the relay which was less than $100 and was a simple swap. I didn't even bother to disconnect the battery.

 

[MrSquished]

Yes, those symptoms matched those on a 99 Accord that I had, where I occasionally had problems starting on warmer days or colder days. The fix was the relay which was less than $100 and was a simple swap. I didn't even bother to disconnect the battery.

it doesn't matter if it's 100 degrees outside or negative 20 degrees outside, the car will always start on the first turn. it's after making numerous quick stops and starts that the car will struggle to get going.

 

[mindless1]

The fix was the relay which was less than $100 and was a simple swap.

< $100 ? ! I could see it if you pay a repair shop to do that.

Similar relays, probably that one too, are about $10-$15 on Amazon, maybe cheaper elsewhere but once you add shipping...

 

[Accord99]

< $100 ? ! I could see it if you pay a repair shop to do that.

Similar relays, probably that one too, are about $10-$15 on Amazon, maybe cheaper elsewhere but once you add shipping...

At that time Amazon Canada wasn't dealing in those parts and I wanted a part that was specified to the model of my car.

 

[Accord99]

it doesn't matter if it's 100 degrees outside or negative 20 degrees outside, the car will always start on the first turn. it's after making numerous quick stops and starts that the car will struggle to get going.

That's what I experienced as well, never the first start of the day. Just after running a few errands then it'll show up.

 

[MrSquished]

That's what I experienced as well, never the first start of the day. Just after running a few errands then it'll show up.

Thanks.

And thanks guys, I'm going to call the mechanic in the next couple of days and run this by them, then go get it fixed.

 

[Rifter]

its a relay, you dont need to go get it fixed you need to buy a new one and plug it in, its really that simple.

 

[freeskier93]

Even an auto parts store monkey can help you swap a relay in the parking lot. Not complicated.

 

[mindless1]

^^ Just because that's a common fault, that doesn't mean it's the only thing it could be. Based on the symptoms it would actually be sort of odd for a relay to cause this. Relays don't take long to cool down so it would usually be just as likely work after sitting for 15 min as it is to start the first time each day, maybe even more so being mechanical and having warmed any lubricant up a bit.

- Time Lapse -

I don't mean to imply it isn't likely to be the relay, but things like the fuel pump itself or injectors relay could also cause this. That vehicle uses a fuel pump relay that's different, and a lot more expensive than some. Rock Auto wants $38 for it, higher cost and it looks different, including different part # than any other relays RA lists for that vehicle. Amazon wants $42, could be as cheap once you add RA's shipping charge. This is the fuel pump / ignition relay:

https://www.amazon.com/Standard-Motor-Products-RY423-Relay/dp/B000C83T62

It might be beyond the scope of a typical DIY'er, but the pictures I saw of it on Rock Auto make it look like it wouldn't be difficult to pop the outer shell off to lube the pivot points and clean the contacts, IF either are the problem. A short or break in the winding probably isn't reasonably serviceable.

 

[sontakke]

OK; to really diagnosis this we will need to find which component necessary to have the engine running is missing e.g. fuel/air/spark/timing/compression etc. I really do not see OP willing to systematically finding what is missing when the car misbehaves.

So now we are looking at doing intelligent part swapping. As a owner, he needs to go for the most likely, easiest to replace and cheap enough to try.

Ergo, the answer is the main relay.

If you don't agree, give some rational argument against it.

 

[mindless1]

You could also try tapping the relay while same or a 2nd person was cranking the engine. Just find a hard object, with some length if it's hard to get to. Screwdriver blade, spoon, whatever.