ok, my 85 olds had cats that looked like that. they got the saw, everything else....SEAFOOOOOOAM!!!!
Yep, it happens. My euro 1Y code NA intake I finally rummaged up was not much better. Was no fun to clean. While the diesel intake clogging goo is different than gasser valve carbon deposits, it could still be worse.
https://www.google.com/search?q=tdi...a=X&ei=RWBeVci0M8u5oQSPw4P4BQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg
Inject meth. Problem solved.
I may add that also, but looking at cam, pistons and head work first.
Not a bad way to go, meth kits are just comparatively cheap and have some positive side effects across the board, including cleaning off carbon buildup. I've got most of the parts laying around for one for the CTS-V and I'll install it soon just to help deal with Texas heat (although I don't really need to worry about carbon deposits).
Oh, going further I see yours is a centrifugal SC system as well, so you really have added blow-by and contaminants entering....far more than a NA engine. Looks like a beast though! Vengeance builds power!
It's probably hard to see all the plumbing from the photos, but it is a dual system built custom by Vengeance. It used to openly vent, but I grew tired of the smell so it was converted over.
Wow! I hope you stick around here and don't let some Aholes in the forum get you down. There are few who might claim to know lot more and are threatened by somebody like you who do know.
I am also little jealous that you have found somebody to pay for what you love doing
Getting back to the PCV system, I thought the people who went for the catch can was to avoid re-burning of the oily vapors for whatever the reasons. Isn't there a system which could be designed to do that if they did not care for the law and emission? The advantages of the PCV system that you pointed out are because the oily vapor is extracted out of the engine and not because they are subsequently burnt. May be I am mistaken there?
Ask more questions, and any other auto techs, let's hear from you guy's and take some pictures and share with us.
Just found this thread (of course after I buy a direct injection car yesterday) and this looks like a potentially big problem, no?
Surely, the manufacturers aren't going to just call this a 'maintenance item' and be done with it? I see where Toyota has solved this (not sure if that was the intent) by having dual injectors - one direct and one indirect. Having to have the car system torn down and cleaned (with crushed Walnut shell blasting) every 35,000-50,000 miles at a potentially high cost just sucks.
The kicker is that if it's solved, I suspect that the auto makers will simply let the ones already in the system that are experiencing the buildup remain there and let them go away by attrition.
I would personally stay far away from a pure direct injection system.
What are your thoughts on catch cans for DI engines GDI Tech? I just picked up a GMC Sierra with the 5.3 DI motor, and a huge number of people on the both of the big GM Truck forums are pushing catch cans as a carbon deposit reducer/eliminator. Thanks!
I work for Robert Bosch Gasoline Systems and we make DI Injectors, but our largest product injector wise is still the regular EV14 gasoline injector. IMO Toyota is one of the only ones that are doing direct injection right.
What are your thoughts on catch cans for DI engines GDI Tech? I just picked up a GMC Sierra with the 5.3 DI motor, and a huge number of people on the both of the big GM Truck forums are pushing catch cans as a carbon deposit reducer/eliminator. Thanks!
any benefits to using a more viscous oil? It would seem to me that the main source of the carbon buildup would be oil finding its way down the valve stems and baking itself onto the back of the valves. Would a heavier oil slow this down a bit?Every automaker has approached these issues in varying ways. pcgeek, please PM me so we can share data. I also work with each of these systems and can give you the actual real world results VS the claims of it being addressed.
Lets go over the different types of solutions attempted, and anyone can search patents and see every automaker has several recent ones to attempt to deal with this.
First, the Toyota, Audi, etc. that have now added back in smaller port injectors what we see is this has done little to stop this. It does reduce the rate of coking and severity, but not to the extent of preventing it. We still see the coking and valve guide wear, and as the port injectors are introducing fuel during the compression stroke again, the main benefit of GDI (eliminating most detonation so much higher compression ratios can be used and fuel mixture burned more effectively resulting in better fuel economy, less emissions, and more power from smaller displacement engines) becomes negated due to a combustible mix again being present. The detonation, or "knock" is detected by the knock sensors and ignition timing is retarded before the human ear can detect the "death rattle" so the consumer is not aware of the knock retard taking place. Anytime this occurs the engine is far from running at peak efficiency and fuel economy goes down, emissions go up, and power is also reduced. There are also several automakers using multiple fueling events and variable valve events to also introduce some fuel to the back sides of the valves, but all of this in real life has done little to address the issue without going "backwards" in the advantages of GDI. The most common changes throughout the industry are the much more effective internal air/oil separation designs. But these are now also retaining far greater amounts of the contaminants the PCV system must evacuate from the crankcase before they can settle and mix with the oil where it accumulates shortening engine life. That is what the trend to REDUCED warranty periods on the engines such as GM's nearly cutting it in half to 60k miles from 100k. You can see this by just checking your oil after a change and see how quickly the oil darkens on the newest GDI engines. Most is not visible with the naked eye, but the darkening of your oil is from the abrasive soot/carbon/ash particles that are constantly entering the crankcase as blow-by. These MUST be removed as the PCV system has done for decades before they can settle and mix. That is a side effect from greater more efficient internal separation.
SO, as we actually study each new GDI engine we can new and at varying amounts of miles accumulated, we see the "real world" results of these different attempts to address this, and I can assure you NONE have it under control.
Now, most owners will never realize this in the 3 year average they keep a new vehicle as the degradation s slow, like the frog put in cool water in a pot on a stove. He will stay and be cooked as it boils as it is a slow process. Now drop one in already hot water and he will jump out. So, most will have traded that vehicle long before the severity has made it hard starting, rough idle, hesitation and random misfires. But that is just leaving the issue for the next owner.
Another example is take any of these new vehicles and add a external system that actually does address this properly and you will see a 1-3 MPG gain from stopping the contamination of the A/F mixture. You only want fuel and air present, any other compound such as oil mist and the combustion by-products will result in a more incomplete burn, less energy release per explosive event, etc.
So, it does not matter what car brand you buy, all claim to have cured this (after denying for the past decade it exist's) and have no problems. They all still do. We examine this and I can share all the pictures of examples showing Toyota nor any other has corrected it to date, and there is no way without an external separating system to do so effectively and not sacrifice engine longevity in doing so.
And KentState (my era of coming of age BTW in the 60's and 70's) is correct. Many new vehicles come with them, but all return the concentration of damaging contaminates back into the crankcase with the oil they trap as well.
I have a challenge, anyone with a newer GDI vehicle that does not think they are affected, do a simple intake manifold removal and look at your own valves closely. Take detailed pictures and share here with all what you see. This includes new Toyota's or any other brand you may think does not have this issue. This will support what we have and are finding, but no need to assume or "think" it is not because you have not noticed it. All have it yet, and still severe enough to continue to cause issues.
Good discussion here all!!!