Carbon: the never-ending debate

[theNEOone]

I'm relatively new to road cycling although I have been spinning for a few years now. I ride mostly 25-45 mile rides in and around San Francisco, which means beautiful scenery and killer hills.

My g/f kills me on the climbs but I destroy her on the flats. I have an aluminum hybrid (less aggressive geometry, straight handle bars) with carbon forks: Specialized Sirrus Comp. She has an all carbon road bike: Specialized Amira Sport which cost twice as much as my bike, whose price (I believe) is largely attributable to the frame, since my bike has nice components.

I'm definitely in better shape than she is (aside from the spinning I also can run, lift, etc. longer, faster, more intensely) and I have a good diet. How come she can beat me on the climbs? In fact, how come everyone on fancy looking road bikes can beat me, even people that clearly look like they wouldn't be able to chase me down on foot even if I were running backwards?

I thought it might be a gearing issue, but I've been exploring the gears a bit and have also compared (visually) her gears against mine. They both look very similar: two compact gears up front for both; 10 speed cassette for me on the rear and 9 on hers.

What gives? Do I need a carbon bike to keep up, because I'll be damned if my g/f beats me on another hill

 

[SociallyChallenged]

It's not necessarily an external factor as to why she beats you. It may very well have to do with shear body weight. On average, let's say most boyfriends weight 50 pounds more than their girlfriends. When you're doing a 200' ascent, you're doing a lot more work. Work = force x distance. So your work is going to be 200'x50lbs = 10,000 foot pounds greater than hers. With cycling, body weight plays a huge part into it. In addition, you likely produce more drag (and maybe even more due to differing technique). She could also be more genetically predisposed to have fast glycolytic and fast oxidative glycolytic muscle fibers, which make her more effective during shorter, higher intensity activities (sprints, uphill). You may be able to overcome that on flat ground, but when it comes to hills, you may just be at a disadvantage.

Also, it seems you now bikes well, but how often do you give it a tune up? I really start to notice when I have lubed things up or replaced the wheel ball bearings in a while.

 

[theNEOone]

Well, I do weigh about 60 lbs more, but by that same analogy would she not be able to beat me up the hill if we were simply running? The difference is still our body weight. We've gone running together as well and I beat her easily on flats, uphill, etc.

Also, what about those 220 lb guys with a gut that are also beating me uphill?

Re: tune up. The bikes are both relatively new, so I think that's a non-issue for the time being.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Well, I do weigh about 60 lbs more, but by that same analogy would she not be able to beat me up the hill if we were simply running? The difference is still our body weight. We've gone running together as well and I beat her easily on flats, uphill, etc.

Also, what about those 220 lb guys with a gut that are also beating me uphill?

Re: tune up. The bikes are both relatively new, so I think that's a non-issue for the time being.

Well, not necessarily. When cycling, you're moving much faster and therefore experiencing a greater drag. Drag is directly related to surface area and speed.

Overall, there are a ton of other things - conditioning, muscle distribution (if you weigh about the same as someone else, but have significant upper body mass, that's going to actually be your detriment when cycling). There are also things that are important like motor program (how efficiently you move), flexibility, timing, use of both LEs (one pulls, one pushes), etc.

Some people are going to be better than others - they're due to both internal and external factors. If you want to get better at hills, do more hills. I can guarantee you'll close the gap if you practice hills more.

 

[_Rick_]

What matters more than material is stiffness.
If 20% of your energy goes into bending the frame, then you will not be going anywhere, when it comes to putting the power down.
And yes, weight also matters. Yours much more than your bike's. Lean up, and get a proper road bike, with a stiff, light aluminum frame, carbon bits (stays, fork, seat post, handle bar, head set, etc...), decent light wheels (going from alu frame to carbon frame gains you about 500 grammes at 1000 dollars. losing 500 frames by going from bottom end wheels to mid-end wheels loses the same weight in 300-400 dollars)

My bike has a dry weight of 7.25 kilos and is an alu frame. It's lighter than some off-the-shelf bottom-end carbon bikes. And stiffer. Good wheel set is where it's at.

Also, stop lifting, if you want to go up fast. That bulk is just slowing you down on the bike. Pointless mass. A good pro climber usually weighs in aroud 63-67 kg. These guys are properly leaned out. Personally, I'm aiming for 70 kg this summer. Just think of the kilojoules a single kg costs you extra on a mile of climbing.

Finally, be sure you've got the gears you need, going up. Ever since I got my gears, I've been running girly gears (34-28...please don't laugh ), and when the climb hit's 10°+, I'm thankful that I've got it.

But again, check for frame stiffness, as that sounds like a possible culprit, especially on a "hybrid". They're often optimized for comfort, and not performance. If you can, rent some high end alu bikes in the $1500 range, and see how these behave on the climbs.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

What matters more than material is stiffness.
If 20% of your energy goes into bending the frame, then you will not be going anywhere, when it comes to putting the power down.
And yes, weight also matters. Yours much more than your bike's. Lean up, and get a proper road bike, with a stiff, light aluminum frame, carbon bits (stays, fork, seat post, handle bar, head set, etc...), decent light wheels (going from alu frame to carbon frame gains you about 500 grammes at 1000 dollars. losing 500 frames by going from bottom end wheels to mid-end wheels loses the same weight in 300-400 dollars)

My bike has a dry weight of 7.25 kilos and is an alu frame. It's lighter than some off-the-shelf bottom-end carbon bikes. And stiffer. Good wheel set is where it's at.

Also, stop lifting, if you want to go up fast. That bulk is just slowing you down on the bike. Pointless mass. A good pro climber usually weighs in aroud 63-67 kg. These guys are properly leaned out. Personally, I'm aiming for 70 kg this summer. Just think of the kilojoules a single kg costs you extra on a mile of climbing.

Finally, be sure you've got the gears you need, going up. Ever since I got my gears, I've been running girly gears (34-28...please don't laugh ), and when the climb hit's 10°+, I'm thankful that I've got it.

But again, check for frame stiffness, as that sounds like a possible culprit, especially on a "hybrid". They're often optimized for comfort, and not performance. If you can, rent some high end alu bikes in the $1500 range, and see how these behave on the climbs.

While everything else here is spot on, I'd like to mention that lifting isn't a problem. If you're lifting 3-8reps on heavy compound movements and eating a ton, then yes, that's gonna slow you down. If you do lift and want to make it apply most to cycling, you'll have to do 20+ reps of a given movement to train for strength endurance as opposed to strength. Most professional athletes lift - they just gear it toward their activity.

 

[theNEOone]

What matters more than material is stiffness.
If 20% of your energy goes into bending the frame, then you will not be going anywhere, when it comes to putting the power down....

But again, check for frame stiffness, as that sounds like a possible culprit, especially on a "hybrid". They're often optimized for comfort, and not performance. If you can, rent some high end alu bikes in the $1500 range, and see how these behave on the climbs.

Yup. This was nagging me so I went to my LBS and test road two of their stiffer bikes - the Tarmac (carbon) and the Allez (aluminum). Both were light years easier to ride uphill than my bike. The salesperson pinpointed it to the stiffness and as you said, my hybrid bike is geared more for comfort than outright power. Argh.... I was hopping there was an easy upgrade to my bike as opposed to having to get an entirely new one... Oh well. I guess I'll train on mine for the time being so that when I make the switch it'll be that much more rewarding.