Career advice needed for returning programmer

[daMachine]

Greeting gents and ladies,

I'm looking for a little advice from the programming community. Any and all input is very much appreciated.


My Background:

I hold a B.S. in Computer Science from a 4-yr college and a M.S. in Computer Science from a well respected University (not specifically for CS, but overall and well known in the area). I was granted full a assistantship and did about 40 hrs/wk for the school while in the M.S. program. I graduated in 2000 (BS) and 2007 (MS). I really took all the CS courses I could. Wouldn’t say I focused on a particular area, but networking (distributed computing, etc) and system programming (c/unix) were areas of interest and focus at the time.


My Problem:

Since 2001, I was involved in the hospitality industry (eventually becoming General manager & tech liaison) and I have no "real world" experience in the software development field other than the graduate school work I was doing for the school at the time (Jr Sys Admin, Research Assistant, Teaching Assistant - totaling 40 hr/wk). At my current company I was involved in all aspects of the business, but did do some technical work as well. Briefly, my tech related experience is as follows: 1) responsible for the graphics design for our print advertisement, 2) built and maintained multiple PCs, 3) redesigned our websites a few years back, and then again more recently [jQuery, responsive website design, etc], 4) installed and maintained a network to include a pfsense box, multiple vlans, and vpn access, 5) purchased, installed, and managed a 12-node wifi system spanning 5 properties along with a central controller including the wiring and termination of all needed Cat5e / Cat6 cable required, and 6) programmed in Java some very basic software to interface with our [3rd party] lodging software in order to produce specific reports and reports of greater detail (keywords here are Java/SQL/JavaFX & Swing). This was only a small portion of my job function and I would not describe myself as an expert or even experienced; someone doing that work for a living would produce higher quality work, but for our non-existent budget the end product was far superior to what we currently had and to what our competition was doing at the time.

At this juncture, I am looking to move on and get back into software development. I prefer to not do websites, but rather do something in Java (application development, android/mobile apps, etc).


Outlook & Thoughts:

I imagine, if I apply to a job with a “stale” resume without any current relevant experience I would basically be passed over and seen to be non-viable given my education was quite a few years ago. Is this about about right or does having the degrees at least give me some traction even if it is aged? Does the work I’ve been doing at my current company have any value?

Also, for what it is worth, I’m in the Philadelphia area so there are plenty of tech jobs nearby and feel employer outlook on my age (mid thirties) / experience ratio may be of concern.

At this point, I’m under the the impression (based on what I believe prospective employers would we looking for) that I need to make myself viable *before* actively pursuing a software development job.

I’d love to hear your thoughts.

 

[Markbnj]

Well, bottom line is that in order to join the regular queue of candidates for most software jobs you'll need to have actual paid experience. So the question becomes either how to get paid experience, or how to join a different queue.

The first thing, if you want to work as a programmer, is to be busy programming. The technology landscape has changed massively since 2000. So foremost in your goals should be fluency in some current platforms and languages. It sounds like you've stayed pretty current, but being the general technology guy is not quite the same thing as being a focused software engineer on a team. You'll need language skills, and tools skills, and then demonstrated experience applying those skills to non-trivial problems.

Once you feel like you could pass an interview the goals become a little simpler. You just need to get into an interview. . You can contribute to open source projects. You can start your own open source project. Those are both helpful things. But as far as I am concerned all that can really be said about getting an interview is this: if you want the interview badly enough, you'll figure out a way to get yourself on the list. I can't tell you how you're going to do it.

 

[DaveSimmons]

I agree with the above. I've helped with hiring developers at this job and the previous one, and I would not consider you to be a developer yet only a potential one.

At this juncture, I am looking to move on and get back into software development. I prefer to not do websites, but rather do something in Java (application development, android/mobile apps, etc).

At this point, I’m under the the impression (based on what I believe prospective employers would we looking for) that I need to make myself viable *before* actively pursuing a software development job.

Yes. For Java you have server development (tomcat, etc.) and apps for Android. Not much PC / desktop development is done with Java any more in part because of the long history of browser plugin security flaws.

We have developers that do both server coding for our Amazon cloud servers and Android app work, but it might make sense to pick one to work on first.

 

[Leros]

I've seen a couple of people in your position apply for internships and then transition into a full time role once the company realized they had potential.

You're basically in the same position as a recent college graduate, except that you graduated several years ago, which makes you a riskier hire. Best case, you're looking at an entry level software position alongside recent college graduates. However, you have additional risk considering your time gap, so taking an internship reduces the risk to the employer and still gets you in the door or puts experience on your resume. If you can handle an hourly wage of $20-30 for a few months, I think applying for internships is a decent option.

 

[Sequences]

I imagine, if I apply to a job with a “stale” resume without any current relevant experience I would basically be passed over and seen to be non-viable given my education was quite a few years ago. Is this about about right or does having the degrees at least give me some traction even if it is aged?

If I were an employer looking for JAVA developers, I would see your degrees and compare that against your experience. If they don't line up, I would have some questions. Coming from the other side of the table, these may be a few questions you want to answer for the employer: "why did this guy not do programming before?" "Should I take the risk and cost of training this person to do this job?"

That being said, I think you should have that on your resume if you can relate.

Does the work I’ve been doing at my current company have any value?

Yes, put it all in there. This is your professional experience.

At this juncture, I am looking to move on and get back into software development. I prefer to not do websites, but rather do something in Java (application development, android/mobile apps, etc).

Figuring out what you want to do is very important. I've interviewed people who were just there to see if they can get another job. Nothing distracts me more than an unenthusiastic interviewee. It makes me think I'm wasting my time. If there is an industry you want to be in, try to learn a few of the big names, their products, their designs, etc. Be knowledgeable about what you want to become: a ______ java developer in the _______ industry doing ______.

At this point, I’m under the the impression (based on what I believe prospective employers would we looking for) that I need to make myself viable *before* actively pursuing a software development job.

I think if you find a job that you're "fully qualified" for (technically), you're not going to learn anything. It will be boring and probably leave you no room to advance in areas you want to. To me, that is extremely undesireable.

Given your lack of programming experience, I would focus on stressing the kind of value you would bring to a team given your past experience and your ambitions as a future programmer.

 

[Net]

you can get your experience by being a contractor. there's a lot of mobile development contracts out there. after some experience on your resume, apply for a salaried position at a company. that's one strategy.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

No offense, but if your resume came across our desk as a potential candidate we probably would not invite you for an interview.

The thing is, you have no experience with formal development processes and you have little real world programming experience. And this is 7 years after getting your MS.

Your best bet might be to contact your schools career development center (they should still be willing to talk to you) and explain your situation. Hopefully you can get an internship with a good company with the goal of being a direct hire after 3 months or so. So this flat out in interviews if you go this route.

 

[ikachu]

I think you will face a very tough time trying to get a full time position because people will make the following assumptions:

1) Your skills are out of date
2) You are older and thus less malleable
3) You lack passion because you got your degree but then never did anything with it
4) You are older and thus will expect to be paid more

I think looking at contracting is a good approach. A company may be more willing to take a risk on you there. On the other hand, try not to stay a contractor too long. Unfortunately when people see someone with many contracts in a row, they tend to think "if this guy was so good, someone would have hired him full time by now."

 

[maluckey]

I disagree....... with everyone...(.except Leros)

It all depends on how much you want to work for it. 20 bucks an hour would be cake, and depending on geographic location wouldn't be welfare (but wouldn't be a lot).

Work a year at that level and apply for the next, wait and repeat.

You DO have to go where the jobs are...AND pay your dues working for someone younger and likely dimmer than yourself, but paying the dues feels the same no matter the cost.

M