Carmack on 3D card

[pidge]

Here is a rip from Voodooextreme's interview with Carmack...this part relates on his thoughts of the perfect video card for Doom 3:

"Nvidia GeForce[2]: We are using these as our primary development platform. I play some tricks with the register combiners to get a bit better quality than would be possible with a generic dual texture accelerator.

ATI Radeon: All features work properly, but I needed to disable some things in the driver. I will be working with ATI to make sure everything works as well as possible. The third texture unit will allow the general lighting path to operate a bit more efficiently than on a GeForce. Lacking the extra math of the register combiners, the specular highlights don't look as good as on a GeForce."

So Geforce 2 GTS/Pro/Ultra will be a better card I take it.

For the complete interview, go here:

 

[Weyoun]

Specular highlights are really only part of the question concerning image quality. besides, neither of these cards will be able to pull any kind of decent framerate when the real thing's released....

BTW, that article is kinda old

 

[Compellor]

It's using the Quake 3 engine, so, it should run great on the GF 2 GTS.

 

[sykopath79]

Actually, chew on this: Doom 3 isn't going to be anywhere close to going gold until close to 2002. That means that GeForce2 Ultra will be on the LOW end of the video card spectrum by the time Doom 3 is out. You ever played Quake 3 with a TNT2? Same effect. We'll be playing with NV25's or higher by the time Doom 3 sees the light of day. NVIDIA is Moore's Law only twice as fast.

 

[fodd3r]

it's using a completely reworked q3 engine. i doubt it'll run great on a gts.

 

[pidge]

I know its sort of old article but it was reposted on Voodooextreme's website.

 

[Compellor]

fodd3r:

If they're using GeForce 2 cards for a platform, it's obviously going be optimized for it, as well as future cards.

sykopath79:

I've played Quake 3 on my old TNT, and it played fine at 1024 x 768 in 16 bit color/textures. The options will be there to turn off some of the eye candy. I will agree that most of us will be using better cards by then, but not all.

 

[Weyoun]

True, it will have scalability, but some of the things carmack's spending most of his time on (like all those extra texture passes for some form of lighting i think) are going to go to waste if you chuck it on a GTS. It's really like when we first heard news of quake3 back in 98, one magazine said the voodoo2 was going to run it just fine, so what did i do, being the average joe consumer? go and buy the damn thing of course!! i didn't care how i got there, but i did, I had to garden for 3 hours every morning for 2 weeks to get that damn card, and boy did my fingers hurt after. so did my ego when i saw it plodding through quake3 when it finally came out. luckily ive learnt from this, the term future proof just doesn't exist people, it really doesnt!

 

[Compellor]

Weyoun:

I wouldn't be surprised if DOOM 3 is the FIRST game to require a 64 MB video card for a decent, playable frame rate -- with all the eye candy on, of course.

 

[Weyoun]

I personally wouldn't be surprised either, the engine has been quoted by carmack to be the largest iteration between previous engines than ever seen before, and it's going to require a *damn* good system to play with acceptable framerates

 

[BFG10K]

Whatever happens this engine will be revolutionary and it will run well, as what usually happens whenever Carmack touches the keyboard. This game will rock.

 

[ube]

What about us peops who can afford good vid cards hehe The only video card that I have had thats not generic is a voodoo banshee not bad though most stuff runs okay

 

[RoboTECH]

I agree with BFG. The game will kick.

I also agree with someone else in the thread who said that the GTS-ultra will be low-end.

It will be low-end.

Remember, 2 years ago, a TNT1 and a V2-SLI rig was the ULTIMATE in gaming. Now, you get laughed at if you're still stuck with it (well, the TNT1 at least)

 

[HigherGround]

I almost agree with BFG ... the technology behind D3 will be nothing short of spectacular, hawever I do have my doubts as far as signle player experience goes

 

[dfloyd]

Unreal II will be released soon!!!! Who Needs Carmack and his lame attempts at making a well rounded game. Long live Epic!!!! Death to the Demoness John Carmack!!!! You guys get a clue about this sicko? He really is a stanist. Maybe that does not influence your purchasing decisions but it sure as heck does mine.

 

[Compellor]

dfloyd:

I suppose you also blame John Carmack for the Columbine HS shootings last year because of the game DOOM? You must be somebody who can't distingish the REAL WORLD from FANTASY. It's a GAME -- nothing more.

 

[BFG10K]

fodd3r:

it's using a completely reworked q3 engine. i doubt it'll run great on a gts.

Err what are you talking about? Carmack's development platform is a plain old GeForce DDR with a Pentium 3 600 (or thereabouts).

HigherGround:

hawever I do have my doubts as far as signle player experience goes

Well I'm sure it won't win any awards but it should be pretty good. I found Quake 1 and Quake 2 to be quite good in that department. Not as good as Unreal or Halflife but certainly playable to the end.

dfloyd:

Unreal II will be released soon!!!!

Great! The more the merrier I say! I see no reason why I can't play both games. After all I play Unreal/Return To Na Pali/UT and Quake 1/2/3 on a regular basis. Why not add Unreal 2 and Doom 3 to the list?

Who Needs Carmack and his lame attempts at making a well rounded game. Long live Epic!!!!

"Lame"? Carmack is arguably the best coder in the gaming industry and is soley responsible for the FPS gaming revolution. If it wasn't for "lame" Carmack you wouldn't even be playing Unreal.

Death to the Demoness John Carmack!!!! You guys get a clue about this sicko? He really is a stanist. Maybe that does not influence your purchasing decisions but it sure as heck does mine.

 

[dfloyd]

Compeller,

No I can tell the difference between real and game. It is Id Software who uses 666 as their apt number. That is just one of the many instances that ID is responsibile for. These guys really are sick in real life. I dont mind violence in games at all. If anything I think it acts as a release for gamers who might be violent in real life otherwise. But when you start to go off the south end like ID is I prefer not to support them. Ohh and to that end I do not believe ID has had a real good game since Quake I. So that is another reason not to support them.

 

[DominoBoy]

Well it's kinda weird that Pidge has to look so deep into a tiny quote to try and convince himself that Geforce is better. In case you didn't notice Pidge, he only mentioned that one thing would look a bit better on geforce. I have seen him say repeatedly that many things will look and perform better on Radeon. He has even called Radeon a "Superior piece of technology".

Here's another little quote I found.

John Carmack, id Software, July 2000
"The ATI RADEON is a feature superset of all other existing cards. It brings together features present in other cards, like DOT3 blending, geometry acceleration, dependent texture reads, and fragment anti-aliasing, and introduces new features like 3D textures, a third texture unit, additional internal accuracy, and sophisticated vertex blending operations. Many of these features go beyond just making existing things faster, and introduce brand new capabilities that just weren't possible before."

I'm sure I can find many others if I look around.

BTW, as you know I'm a Geforce2 owner. But I hate to see people try to twist quotes around to serve their own purposes. *cough*Pidge*cough*
Both the Radeon and Geforce2 are great cards. But like many others, if I had it to do over, I would definately buy the Radeon instead.

 

[dfloyd]

BFG10K,

Yeah your right he did do alot to make the FPS what it is today. So what!!! He is a real sicko in real life. I did not know this before. I thought the Pentagram of power was just some lame attempt at ID being cool. Well guess what guys its not. These guys really believe in this stuff. Its one thing to make fantasy up for people to enjoy. Its another to really believe in this stuff. Yeah they may have some damn good coders there. Once again I say So What!!! Just having the ability to code does not mean you will make a great game. UT is the best well rounded shooter out there. ID is going to charge you for what Epic provided the first time around. Thats cheap imo. Not to mention I think Q3 sucks. Yes it has some beautiful graphics. Some very nice architecture. But the physics just suck. I feel like I am playing Mario Quake or something. Hop, shoot, run, jump, hop, shoot, etc, etc, etc. Quake I was a very solid and excellent game. Q2 was a fun single player game and ok multiplayer game. Q3 has nice eye candy...... So its not only because I think these guys views are sick it is also because I think that their attempts at makeing games have went south.

 

[RoboTECH]

dfloyd, I have some oceanfront property in Kansas I'm looking to sell.

are you interested?

 

[kylebisme]

lol, realy, in doom and the other id games you kill demons from hell. now how satanic is that realy?

 

[BW]

I agree with you on the pentagram bull shiit dfloyd. I dont like the 666 or the pentagram crap iether. They make good games but need to do away from that crap.

 

[jpprod]

Accusing John Carmack to be a satanist because of pentagrams and 666s in Doom is like accusing Steven Spielberg of being a nazi for directing Schindler's List (look at all those swastikas!). In the words of our once-esteemed member Guy Under The Bridge, let's keep it real, OK?

 

[dfloyd]

Not because of anything in game people. Their apt nubmer (IN REAL LIFE) is 666. That was a what they wanted it too be. Yeah they are great programmers but they are the ones having problems keeping whats real and whats not seperate.