I edited your quote to reflect the wild west mentality that causes these proposals to be "shot down".
This sort of thing should be tied together with an easier method of filing a complaint against someone, some sort of process for identifying the crazies such as Jared Loughner. It would encourage people to point them out for elimination.
I really dont have time to look into if that has happened already or not but there have been incidents of vigilante justice that were not correct usages of force. I remember a few posted to these very forums.
If I could find a few incidents of the government medicare system screwing up, would that be justification for repealing the healthcare law? Just because their were a few incidents does not mean the net effect of such laws is negative. Don't resort to the debating tactics of Glenn Beck, if you don't know, and don't promote restricting peoples freedoms based upon your own lack of knowledge.
Its all fine and dandy until people start shooting each other over all kinds of little things.
Scenario
Everyone has a gun.
Man A sees someone shooting someone from a building corner. He does his civic duty and puts this miscreant down (man B) with his own firearm. There by eliminating the threat to the local civilians.
Until it is revealed seconds later man B was defending himself from man C (who was getting dangerously close to man B's gas tank). Man D inside the gas station witnesses the entire thing and guns down man A -to defend the people.
We dont live in the wild west people.
I'm not going to claim it can't happen, but it's certainly not the slippery slope that some people make it out to be. In fact, if you look at the statistics, I'm pretty sure you're far more likely to be shot on accident by a police officer than by an armed civilian. Unfortunately mistakes will sometimes happen in the heat of the moment, there's no avoiding this. These scenarios don't occur frequently enough to justify taking rights away from the millions who can conceal carry responsibly, though.I really dont have time to look into if that has happened already or not but there have been incidents of vigilante justice that were not correct usages of force. I remember a few posted to these very forums.
In fact, if you look at the statistics, I'm pretty sure you're far more likely to be shot on accident by a police officer than by an armed civilian.
Haha, another classic Jstorm post.
Thats kind of to my point. Every cop has a gun so of course statistics would say death by cop is more common. Now put a gun in everyone's hands and lets see where the statistics are.
Who are you again?
As it stands the only obstacles to carrying concealed in most states are money and a small amount of time necessary to complete a basic safety course.
Its all fine and dandy until people start shooting each other over all kinds of little things.
Scenario
Everyone has a gun.
Man A sees someone shooting someone from a building corner. He does his civic duty and puts this miscreant down (man B) with his own firearm. There by eliminating the threat to the local civilians.
Until it is revealed seconds later man B was defending himself from man C (who was getting dangerously close to man B's gas tank). Man D inside the gas station witnesses the entire thing and guns down man A -to defend the people.
We dont live in the wild west people.
Money should not be an obstacle to a basic right. I propose free handguns for every citizen.
Actually the right wingers on this forum do present semantics as reason to repeal the health care reform.
I also think there is a difference between user error in regards to a job and user error in regards to gunning someone down. And actually so does the law. If you gunned down my wife because she was reaching in her purse I would not only seek criminal justice but I would sue you into oblivion in a civil court.
If a nurse inject the wrong medication into a patient and he dies the hospital will be used but generally the nurse will not be subject to personal liability beyond whatever her employer deems fit.
We're not putting a gun in everyone's hand, we're giving people the freedom to carry concealed if they so choose.
As it stands the only obstacles to carrying concealed in most states are money and a small amount of time necessary to complete a basic safety course. Considering that most CCWs I know have at least a mild interest in guns to start with, the latter is completely unnecessary and the former is just a tax + waste of money taking a useless class.
Money should not be an obstacle to a basic right. I propose free handguns for every citizen.
The difference being, running red lights, raping, and murdering aren't in the bill of rights.
Well, then I won't waste time on the semantics since you seem to know it is not a good argument.
Its all fine and dandy until people start shooting each other over all kinds of little things.
Scenario
Everyone has a gun.
Man A sees someone shooting someone from a building corner. He does his civic duty and puts this miscreant down (man B) with his own firearm. There by eliminating the threat to the local civilians.
Until it is revealed seconds later man B was defending himself from man C (who was getting dangerously close to man B's gas tank). Man D inside the gas station witnesses the entire thing and guns down man A -to defend the people.
We dont live in the wild west people.
murder rates were lower in the wild west
http://forums.anandtech.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=31314533
Does that include native americans? Also what about the difference in population density?
Its all fine and dandy until people start shooting each other over all kinds of little things.
Scenario
Everyone has a gun.
Man A sees someone shooting someone from a building corner. He does his civic duty and puts this miscreant down (man B) with his own firearm. There by eliminating the threat to the local civilians.
Until it is revealed seconds later man B was defending himself from man C (who was getting dangerously close to man B's gas tank). Man D inside the gas station witnesses the entire thing and guns down man A -to defend the people.
We dont live in the wild west people.
IrishScott - I can see your point regarding enthusiasts, if it were simply a matter of the physical act of operating a weapon in the proscribed manner. And for the record, I am in favor of responsible Concealed Carry and of ownership in general.
Having said that, I would respectfully disagree with the 'class completely unnecessary' part of your post on the premise that the there is a whole set of Legal and Social realities, plus potential liabilities that go along with a CCW; and that the basics of these are fully worthy of instruction. If something ever happened, (we) would call a lawyer as a matter of course. But a little foreknowledge can go a long way. Police receive this instruction (in some detail) as part of their training so they understand the when/where/how/why of a legitimate usage. I don't think it's unreasonable to require the carrying public to also be provided at least a working subset.
Basically, that's a slightly long winded way of stating .."if you're going to carry, you should know where you stand with respect to the rules and a class can serve to teach you..." If it's the case that current classes do not cover these (adequately?), then I would opine the class' objectives should be revisited.
<snippage>
To make the class worthwhile there has to be stricter standardization that enforces actual training, perhaps even subsidized/provided by the state to keep the costs down. Then it would be money well spent. But in the age of slicing fat from the budget a proposal like that isn't going anywhere. If I have to choose between a worthless wasteful system and no system, I'll take no system with, correspondingly, no wasted money or time.