Cars 'n Coffee - Would Love Feedback

dmw16

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2000
7,608
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I just started to get into photography and I haven't gotten out to take many shots yet, but I took my camera and a few lenses to a local cars and coffee gathering yesterday and took a few.

Not sure if there's much feedback that people can offer just yet, but thought I'd share and see what people thought. I apologize for lots of fisheye in advance. I only packed that and a 30mm prime and that proved too long.


DSC_0082 by musicandthegeek, on Flickr


DSC_0045 by musicandthegeek, on Flickr


DSC_0028 by musicandthegeek, on Flickr


DSC_0020 by musicandthegeek, on Flickr


DSC_0009 by musicandthegeek, on Flickr
 
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Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,933
877
126
Nice stuff, but I'm not a huge fan of the fisheye. Cars already have wonderful lines and curves, no need to distort them to such extremes to make an interesting photo. IMHO, of course.

In general, I've always believed that introducing a photography gimmick between the viewer and the subject just detracts from the overall image.

Also, when I shoot car shows I go for both overall shots with the entire car in them, and close-up detail shots of the more interesting car features and curves to mix in. It's also nice if you can work more than one element into a single photo. You've got the shot of the coffee, but where are the wonderful car-nuts who belong to those hot cars? I'm a huge fan of including people in my photos. Throngs of drooling car fans reflected in the shinny chrome of a classic car tailfin is always a nice shot. Stuff like that.

Just some thoughts. There are a thousand way to shoot a car show. Keep up the good work.
 

dougp

Diamond Member
May 3, 2002
7,950
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You have anymore pictures of that red Viper? That car offers some seriously beautiful curves to photograph.
 

dmw16

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2000
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You have anymore pictures of that red Viper? That car offers some seriously beautiful curves to photograph.

I don't, but I think he's there most weekends with that car and there were several other Vipers on hand. I'll see about getting some more shots next weekend.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
81
The first coffee shot is the only one I'd say a 'good' shot. The rest look that you didn't even attempt to compose them
 

dmw16

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2000
7,608
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Why do you say the 30mm was too long? You just need more distance

Too long may be the wrong term. I was really struggling to frame shots and I'm not sure if it was the fact that standing back a bit was hard because of the people around or what.

A few came out ok, the rest I don't really like. Just need more practice and the feedback is very much appreciated.

I liked the way the BMW M Roadster came out other than the Pontiac that ended up in the background. I was pleased with the depth of field. That one actually was the 30mm.
 

Railgun

Golden Member
Mar 27, 2010
1,289
2
81
First,

Fisheye's and cars usually don't go well together. As you've said, distortion just ruins the whole thing.

I've found that composition of this nature can be pretty tricky. What you may think would be a cool shot ends up being pretty boring after you look at it.

Don't be afraid of your background. But at a car show, that can be somewhat problematic as you don't want to necessarily have the subject share the foreground with something else. Depends on the end goal there. Conversely, beer drinking, mullet wearing observers in the background aren't a good thing either.

Most of the better shots I've seen have heavy post processing done. Not to say that one with virtually none won't look good, but ultimately it depends on what you're looking to do with it.

Just putzing around, I found this and some are great examples. Some are not even close (the 8th one of the super HDR of the Camaro is horrible).

http://www.unstage.com/2010/03/50-great-examples-of-automotive-photography/

But these are obviously purposely set. Again, a car show venue is harder to compose.

That said, you said you're using a 30mm. For exterior shots, that's good, though a wide zoom would be more versatile. The EXIF info is gone from the attachments, but based on what I see, I'm guessing it's at f1.8 or so. I have a 16-35 f4 that I love but have used a 50 f1.4 that gives that toy car look...almost tilt-shift quality with the shallow depth of field. But don't go crazy with that. It can backfire on you pretty easily. The disortion can be easily overcome at wide angles with the zoom and it's also great for interior shots.

I'm also learning myself and it can be a bit overwhelming. Looking at all the other shots I've seen, I by no means am close to composing the shots right and I don't necessarily want to simply copy ideas from another, but there really is only so much you can do. That said, I like to think I'm getting better.

I have to echo your own comment about the Bimmer. It's the right idea, just needs a bit better execution.
 

SecurityTheatre

Senior member
Aug 14, 2011
672
0
0
Thanks. Looking through everything I took that day I'd say I was generally too close.

A couple of comments.

1) It looks like almost all of your shots were from eye-level. Seriously, cars are 4 feet tall. Many shots are taken from eye-level are a result of a lack of thought about composition (or a photographer with a bad back). Just standing upright and holding the camera on your face, especially with a fisheye, is selling yourself short on composition and creativity. Bend over, look at things square on. Or, try to get up high and shoot downwards. It doesn't really matter as long as it has a purpose. Sure, some shots are best from eye-level, but only a small fraction. Fisheyes are exceptionally sensitive to this problem because of their distortion. It may be a good thing learning to shoot with it because it's much easier to miss this compositional issue when using standard lenses (they don't exaggerate it as much).

2) Don't fixate on getting the whole object in a shot. The only photo of this set I really thought was reasonably well composed was the BMW steering wheel shot. The BMW logo shot wasn't bad, but the angle made it hard to see clearly (though good job of getting down low for that one). It happens that those were the two where you didn't try to get too much into one photo. Just pick a subject and find the best way to highlight it.

3) Look at the edges of the frame. Make sure your subject is actually entirely in the frame. Chopping off 10% of a bumper (for example) looks bad, especially when there is a ton of dead space on the opposite side of the frame. Fisheyes are tricky. If you can't fit those square lines into a frame, try changing your viewing angle (squat down, move to the side, etc).

4) If you have the wrong gear (for example, your lens is feeling too narrow), change your expectations. Pick smaller features, try to shoot down the side lines of the car, shoot the shifter knob. Shoot the hood ornament, shoot the steering wheel, shoot the tires, shoot the leather, shoot someone's hand on a pin stripe.. Shoot someone's face in the side-mirror, even.

Also, don't abuse the fisheye. They are usually annoying if not used with a clear purpose. The one real power of a fisheye is that it allows you to grossly exaggerate whatever is in the immediate foreground, so you have to pick what that is. I've seen some killer fisheye shots of that were accentuating a specific feature, say an exhaust, or a hood ornament, but you have to bend over and put those in the foreground and the rest of the shot is just background. Don't shoot anything with lines that you expect. Try to make them unexpected. It's NOT a wide-angle lens, it's a fisheye. Don't try to use a fisheye as a substitute for a wide angle. In most of these shots, there is nothing in the foreground but the car's roof. If you are trying to draw attention to the roof for some reason, that's great, but I don't think that's the plan here.

By all means, bring your zoom next time, but DONT use it to substitute for bending over or squatting to get a better angle. Try shooting cars from bumper-level and the photo is ENTIRELY different than from eye level. Try to get both wide angle and zoom shots. Details and lines (especially in a crowded place) are often nicer than the whole-car shot.
 
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master7045

Senior member
Jul 15, 2005
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I am by no means a pro photographer, but I'm going to throw in my .02. I like the first 2 shots the best, but think the are too stale. The coffee shot would have been great if you would have been able to capture people in the background having a good time, maybe someone reading a car magazine. I know that this shot I just described may not have presented itself, but just an idea. I want to really like the second one, but I think you missed the lines of the hood. Again, good job, I need to get out and do the same thing, I'm just too embarrassed to post for the AT world to see!

On the other hand, I love this picture (Link from RailGun's post):
 

SecurityTheatre

Senior member
Aug 14, 2011
672
0
0
I am by no means a pro photographer, but I'm going to throw in my .02. I like the first 2 shots the best, but think the are too stale. The coffee shot would have been great if you would have been able to capture people in the background having a good time, maybe someone reading a car magazine. I know that this shot I just described may not have presented itself, but just an idea. I want to really like the second one, but I think you missed the lines of the hood. Again, good job, I need to get out and do the same thing, I'm just too embarrassed to post for the AT world to see!

On the other hand, I love this picture (Link from RailGun's post):

What makes this shot is the colour. Very nice post production.
 

master7045

Senior member
Jul 15, 2005
729
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True, but If it was in black & white I think it would look just as good. The sepia background and red car make for a good poster shot, but I like how the person is standing a back focusing on the tire and not the entire car, when obviously, the car is what grabs your attention.
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
Great thread. Really good advice.

I'm no expert- but I know what I like in a photo from a viewer's prospective.

Looking at the first photos my first thought is why the fisheye? What's the purpose? I'm asking myself why the photographer didn't ask the same question before choosing it.

I've seen awesome shots with a fisheye where the point was say; a subject on a lake, where you can see the expanse of water and curve of the planet. A city street skyline from below with more drama to the buildings curving to the sky. A dog's nose exaggerated making it look cute.

But really, a cup of coffee? I just don't get the relationship it vs. the distorted background, the same way as I instantly get other kinds of fisheye photos.

And as others said, a car already has interesting lines, what's the point of making it look warped? It could be interesting to see a part of the car emphasized against the rest of it with a fisheye. Like maybe just a unique hood ornament with the hood of the car curving off behind it. Or, if it was in some really interesting location it could be cool to distort the curve of the earth effect behind it to make the expanse more dramatic. (No purpose in that in those parking lot shots though.)

Again, I'm no pro so I hope I don't come off like a dick, just creative suggestions. I'd say, take the fisheye next time and think about an actual statement you want to make with the effect first and then try to make it. (Like I think you were starting on that track with the cup of coffee and with a little more effort you may have come across something really cool.)
 

dmw16

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2000
7,608
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0
Thanks everyone for the continued feedback.

It's funny looking at these pictures. I am wrapping up a 4 week photographic composition class at the local community college and just in the short time I look at these shots and think "what was I thinking".

I agree that the second one was almost a good shot, but very poorly executed. The rest didn't have much point.

I chose to take the fisheye because I had just gotten it. Which was a bad reason and made the shots worse. It's hard to compose with and probably too much lens for a beginner. I'm actually half tempted to sell it and use the proceeds to fill in my lens collection a bit, but that's a different conversation.

I'll throw a few more up here in the coming days.

On the subject of the pic that Master posted, I like the simple shot of the person looking at a detail of the car. I think I'd actually like it better simply in black and white. I'm not a huge fan of that style of post-processing, but that's just personal preference; it's very well executed.

Thanks again all.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,227
36
91
The car in my sig was featured in a local Orange County Cars and Coffee tribute the day after Carroll Shelby died a few weeks ago. I think lost my Rebel with all of the pics on it the next day
 

SecurityTheatre

Senior member
Aug 14, 2011
672
0
0
Thanks everyone for the continued feedback.

It's hard to compose with and probably too much lens for a beginner. I'm actually half tempted to sell it and use the proceeds to fill in my lens collection a bit, but that's a different conversation.

Thanks again all.

The fisheye is indeed a difficult lens to use. In fact, it's one that has very few uses.

Just for reference, here's my favourite of the shots I took back in 2005 with my old 10.5mm fisheye (on an APS-C body). I had the lens for 6 months and can't find too many others that were any good.



The skateboard was about 9 inches from the lens, if I recall.

My suggestion is to go for much more flexible rectilinear wide angle (like a 10-20mm zoom) instead of the fisheye. You can capture the same sort of feel of wide-angle distortion, without losing the ability to shoot square corners.
 

dmw16

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2000
7,608
0
0
The fisheye is indeed a difficult lens to use. In fact, it's one that has very few uses.

Just for reference, here's my favourite of the shots I took back in 2005 with my old 10.5mm fisheye (on an APS-C body). I had the lens for 6 months and can't find too many others that were any good.



The skateboard was about 9 inches from the lens, if I recall.

My suggestion is to go for much more flexible rectilinear wide angle (like a 10-20mm zoom) instead of the fisheye. You can capture the same sort of feel of wide-angle distortion, without losing the ability to shoot square corners.

That is a great shot with the fisheye!

Before buying it I clicked through a ton of shots on flickr that were taken with the lens and loved the results. However I think in reality it's too much lens for me (at least right now). I already have a 12-24 which pretty wide. I think the fisheye may be finding a new home.
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
^ That skateboard shot is a seriously cool photo! Not only for the fisheye effect, but the stopping of motion as well. I get the feeling one had to be close to danger of getting knocked over to get that shot. Very nice.
 
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