Cars run on water: Miracle or scam?

[RelaxTheMind]

If this was more of a deal than it was im sure it would have caused more mayhem than a thread on ATOT. im sure news reporters have done more research into this than most of us have.

 

[pradeep1]

My opinion, and I am a chemical engineer from Georgia Tech, is that this is a scam.

 

[Talcite]

I'd have to say scam. Besides, did you look at the external links at the wiki page? almost 9/10 were to brown's gas companies! gives you a hint of who wrote it. Besides, the article was nominated for deletion.

I say give us a double blind test first, then I'll believe it.

 

[BWMerlin]

Oh no it has just appeared on late nite tv here in oz. I know a little about chem (I am doing it at uni at the moment and have done it in high school so have a basic understanding of it) but even I have to doubt this. Give the engines or what ever they are calling them to multiple qualified reputable institutes to test out and publish the results and the we shall all see if it works or not.

 

[bobsmith1492]

'Denny Klein is president of Hydrogen Technologies Applications in Clearwater, Fla. His patented machine uses an electrical charge to separate the atoms of H2O into HHO, a gas he calls "Aquygen."'

H2O -> HHO? Ok, that sounds reeealy fishy... what's the difference!?!??

...

'The flame, though on its own registers just 259 degrees Fahrenheit, heats up to the melting point of whatever substance it touches, explained Steve Lusko, project manager for Hydrogen Technologies Applications.

"You get a huge energy response," Klein told the Tampa Tribune. "But this gas is very, very safe."'

'"For example, when you ignite our flame and touch it to steel, it will cut right through it at 1,400 degrees," Lusko told WND.'

'"It will melt a hole right through a brick at 4,500 degrees. ? It reacts to whatever it touches."'

How, exactly does it do that? And how is that "safe?" Wouldn't it burn its way through the earth?

They're making up stuff for the gullible. You can't even look at the rest of the article after reading the first few lines. If your assumptions are false...

 

[dkozloski]

How could this stuff work in an engine. As the first cylinder fired it would melt down if you swallow their BS. To quote a well known engineer; "That's the most rediculous Goddam thing I ever heard".

 

[Mark R]

Originally posted by: dkozloski
How could this stuff work in an engine. As the first cylinder fired it would melt down if you swallow their BS. To quote a well known engineer; "That's the most rediculous Goddam thing I ever heard".

Well, hydrogen is a very potent octane booster - so if you mixed 1-2% of this hydrogen mixture with the air, then you have a chance at improving fuel consumption.

The idea of hydrogen mixing for internal-combustion engines is well established - the problem has been developing a practical system for generating sufficient quantities in a vehicle.

 

[Mark R]

Originally posted by: bobsmith1492
'Denny Klein is president of Hydrogen Technologies Applications in Clearwater, Fla. His patented machine uses an electrical charge to separate the atoms of H2O into HHO, a gas he calls "Aquygen."'

H2O -> HHO? Ok, that sounds reeealy fishy... what's the difference!?!??

There is no difference - they're trying to blind people with pseudoscientific marketing BS.

'"For example, when you ignite our flame and touch it to steel, it will cut right through it at 1,400 degrees," Lusko told WND.'

'"It will melt a hole right through a brick at 4,500 degrees. ? It reacts to whatever it touches."'
[/i]
How, exactly does it do that? And how is that "safe?" Wouldn't it burn its way through the earth?

They're making up stuff for the gullible. You can't even look at the rest of the article after reading the first few lines. If your assumptions are false...

A Hydrogen and oxygen mixture burns at a very high temperature (something like 5000 F) - there are 2 catches; 1) the actual density of the flame is low, and the amount of energy released for a given volume of gas is low; 2) the only product of the reaction is water - which will withdraw considerable heat from the flame by evaporation.

Because there is relatively little energy in the flame, it is slow at heating things up (so brushing it past your hand may not cause a catastrophic burn), and if held in free air so that the steam can escape easily, the flame burns at a relatively low temperature.

When confined, you do have access to the hottest part of the flame, so you can heat things to very high temperatures. But, there's a catch - if you've got a large lump of metal, like 1/2 inch copper plate, because the copper is an excellent heatsink it will just pull the heat energy away from the flame, so you'll never be able to get one spot of it up to melting point. (You need a flame with much more energy in it - like oxy-acetylene, or a very high temperature 'flame' from a plasma cutter). So, while a hydrogen torch is excellent for cutting concrete, or getting ball bearings red hot - it will struggle with cutting bulk metal, especially highly conductive metals like Aluminium or copper.

 

[confused1234]

 

[bobsmith1492]

Well, it would seem they don't even have a hydrogen-oxygen mixture to burn, if all they have is "HHO", i.e. H2O, so it sounds like they're burning hydrogen to show how their fuel can burn, while claiming it really isn't hydrogen when they need to show the advantages of their system (since separating water into H2 and burning it will obviously be a drain on power rather than assistance).

 

[Acanthus]

The laws of thermodynamics say this wont work.

Edit: Unless of course it consumes more energy than burning gasoline.

 

[savvy]

Scam.

 

[i3igpete]

it was a scam from the minute i saw the word "businessman." business majors don't have to take chemistry 101 in college. we'll call this guy exhibit "A". he has seemed to prove the first two laws of thermodynamics false.

so one guy screwing around in a garage can do something that entire corporations with millions in research and teams of engineering phd's can't? interesting. :roll:

 

[wirelessenabled]

Originally posted by: russoxley187
sounds like a scam to me

NSS:disgust:

 

[Calin]

Originally posted by: Mark R

Originally posted by: dkozloski
How could this stuff work in an engine. As the first cylinder fired it would melt down if you swallow their BS. To quote a well known engineer; "That's the most rediculous Goddam thing I ever heard".

Well, hydrogen is a very potent octane booster - so if you mixed 1-2% of this hydrogen mixture with the air, then you have a chance at improving fuel consumption.

The idea of hydrogen mixing for internal-combustion engines is well established - the problem has been developing a practical system for generating sufficient quantities in a vehicle.

This system is used on big rigs (trucks) - they rob energy from the engine, use it to create H2 and O2 from water, and inject the gases in back cylinders. The result? Higher temperature in combustion chamber, more complete burning of diesel fuel. A net increase in efficiency of the engine (even considering all the losses in electricity generation and electrolysis).
As one of the drivers said, "the black columns of smoke from the stacks are gone".

 

[Calin]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: theman
why does making gasoline burn really hot, make the car more efficient? does he even understand how a car works? maybe for a furnace... but even so, that article sounds like it is writen by a 6th grader. "...but soon tried it out in a hybrid automobile." and, how can you SEPARATE the atoms of H2O and still have HHO? hmmmmm...... this is just total BS, and anyone who cant tell after reading the first 3 sentences is just retarded. it makes me feel like an idiot just replying to this. ahhh, i feel sick.

It's been 20 years since I've bothered reading about it or have done any work with it, but in the Carnot energy cycle, you do get more efficiency with a higher temperature. This is the reason they (ceramic engineers) were trying to come up with a ceramic engine - it didn't have to be cooled as much as a metal based engine.

Also, increasing temperature (like in diesel engines) increases the formation of NOx (nitrogen oxides). These nitrogen oxides are a pollutant, so there is an upper limit of temperature in an engine (this is a limit only for current diesel engines, not yet current gasoline engines).

 

[Calin]

Originally posted by: theman
i read about some thing that they sold back in the 70s, it was like, a thing that you attached to your carburetor that sprayed water in with your gas. just saves gas, but yeah, its like having super weak gasoline.

Water injection is used (if I remember correctly) in the engines of B52 bombers during takeoff, in order to increase power.
Injecting water (liquid water) will allow you to reduce the total temperature (reducing thermal stress). The vaporisation of water will create a great quantity of gas, which helps increasing the pressure/force in the active cycle of the engine. This could increase total power (as the most power hungry cycle, the compression, is unaffected by the water injection)

 

[inveterate]

You know guys, I think our problems will go away eventually. THe populated areas are always densing up, sooner or later , we can likely (finally) walk to work. and we wouldn't need cars.

And if u look at the way Internet is EXPLODING. eventaully we don't need transportation to work. at least half of the workforce will be like this. No problems i can see.

 

[Tsuwamono]

As far as i can see its BS just based on the fact that the HHO cannot be made, the Valence electron wouldnt allow it as many other people have said.

 

[Kyanzes]

Well, there is a well known transportation device that could be run on water, it's called a horse.

 

[bobsmith1492]

Originally posted by: Kyanzes
Well, there is a well known transportation device that could be run on water, it's called a horse.

True, but it requires large amounts of organic fuels as well, and generates solid waste indiscriminately with only a small holding tank. Not to mention they are prone to diseases, may be tempermental, must be trained to do what is required, have a relatively low top speed, and often have a mind of their own... plus, if they break, they may take a long time to repair, and you can't just stop by the local Autozone for spare parts.

 

[dkozloski]

Originally posted by: bobsmith1492

Originally posted by: Kyanzes
Well, there is a well known transportation device that could be run on water, it's called a horse.

True, but it requires large amounts of organic fuels as well, and generates solid waste indiscriminately with only a small holding tank. Not to mention they are prone to diseases, may be tempermental, must be trained to do what is required, have a relatively low top speed, and often have a mind of their own... plus, if they break, they may take a long time to repair, and you can't just stop by the local Autozone for spare parts.

If left to their own devices they'll automatically create their own replacements.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: dkozloski

Originally posted by: bobsmith1492

Originally posted by: Kyanzes
Well, there is a well known transportation device that could be run on water, it's called a horse.

True, but it requires large amounts of organic fuels as well, and generates solid waste indiscriminately with only a small holding tank. Not to mention they are prone to diseases, may be tempermental, must be trained to do what is required, have a relatively low top speed, and often have a mind of their own... plus, if they break, they may take a long time to repair, and you can't just stop by the local Autozone for spare parts.

If left to their own devices they'll automatically create their own replacements.

over the course of weeks, months, or even years. push comes to shove, you can buy a new car within hours

 

[theslickvik]

i saw the commercial not the car

 

[GoPackGo]

Watch out, he and the Video Professor guy might form a company.