Carson v. Schiavo: Voters are the real brain dead problem.

[SirStev0]

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/11/ben...i-schiavo-case-it-was-much-ado-about-nothing/


My opinion and interpretation on the matter:

It is a tale
Told by an idiot,
full of sound and fury
Signifying nothing.


The backlash on Ben Carson shows that we are not ready for a physician to be president. People are too concerned about their right to have an opinion, no matter how much pesky science shows it to be wrong, over what is the actual reality.

Terry Schiavo was medically brain dead. Period. It should have never been a nation debate. No matter what your religious or philosophical beliefs, high brain function defines "human existence". And trying to get the government involved was the least conservative thing conservatives did for a long time.

It was a media circus run by clowns.

Someone who can make life or death decisions without getting caught in the "politics", frankly doesn't make a good president.

Ben Carson likely has been around brain dead people. So have I, nerves are firing, but there isn't life in there. And in his line of work, it was likely brain dead kids.

That's the kind of experience that you can't ignore and fake like it didnt happen just because it will upset your base.

Most of the people with opinion on the matter haven't been anywhere close to that. Go spend some time with people who aren't the lucky ones that die quickly. It will quickly change your opinion on who has the audacity to make that decision.

We live in a time where physicians have to pretend and hide behind ambiguous lies in order to do the humane thing.

That is one of the many reason he will never be president. When half the idiots only want to eat tripe, especially when they are your idiots, you can't go around pointing out they are eating shit, because they aren't going to like that.

I've said it before, and its something we are just going to have to come to terms with, our country isn't ready for leader who isn't a full time con man.

Full disclosure, I don't think he was a strong candidate to begin with.. but that can be said about the whole lot, both parties.

I was happy for once that a man of science was running, but I knew it wouldn't last. He'd either give in to the idiot masses and start agreeing with bullshit, or he'd crash and burn. He still seems to be skirting the line, but maybe this will be the final injunction before they pull the plug.

 

[Slew Foot]

at least the republican voters stand up for their principles, as opposed to the liberals who say they hate corporate greed, liars, phony politcians, and wall street cronies but vote for Hillary Clinton anyway

 

[Vic]

at least the republican voters stand up for their principles, as opposed to the liberals who say they hate corporate greed, liars, phony politcians, and wall street cronies but vote for Hillary Clinton anyway

You mean their supposed principle of small government while fighting to give government the ability to keep someone alive artificially and against their will?

 

[Slew Foot]

You mean their supposed principle of small government while fighting to give government the ability to keep someone alive artificially and against their will?

The voters do, the politicians on the other hand....

 

[Vic]

The voters do, the politicians on the other hand....

Yeah, the politicians were acting entirely on their own. No public pressure whatsoever.

 

[MongGrel]

I wondered how long it would take for Terry Schiavo to come up again.

Jeb stepped on his crank on that one IMHO, long ago.

 

[sm625]

That is one of the many reason he will never be president. When half the idiots only want to eat tripe, especially when they are your idiots, you can't go around pointing out they are eating shit, because they aren't going to like that.

lol this is so true. Ron Paul already proved that America will not elect a doctor. Just today I received an infraction, here on this subforum of all places, for simply stating that 'merca refuses to stop arming extremists in the middle east, and the end result of that will be a Hiroshima in response to a terrorist attack on 'mercan soil. It will happen, because 'mercans will only steer the ship of state in that direction. There is no will to prevent this downward sprial.

 

[glenn1]

You mean their supposed principle of small government while fighting to give government the ability to keep someone alive artificially and against their will?

That is an unsupported statement. She was in a vegetative state and could not express whether this was "against her will" or not. She also had no living will, no "do not resuscitate" order, or other guidance related to express whether this would have been "against her will."

That being said, I think it was a completely reasonable thing in every sense (legal, moral, etc.) to allow her husband to make that choice on her behalf that should would not have wanted to be "kept alive artificially," but let's not kid ourselves that she informed that decision.

 

[CitizenKain]

lol this is so true. Ron Paul already proved that America will not elect a doctor. Just today I received an infraction, here on this subforum of all places, for simply stating that 'merca refuses to stop arming extremists in the middle east, and the end result of that will be a Hiroshima in response to a terrorist attack on 'mercan soil. It will happen, because 'mercans will only steer the ship of state in that direction. There is no will to prevent this downward sprial.

People didn't vote for Ron Paul because he's a doctor, they didn't vote for him because he's a crazy person with bad policies.

 

[zinfamous]

People didn't vote for Ron Paul because he's a doctor, they didn't vote for him because he's a crazy person with bad policies.

Amazing, isn't it, how such a simple understanding of relevant variables eludes those with the supposed higher-brain function to type out complete sentences?

 

[Newell Steamer]

No big government!!

But, the government gets to say what happens with:
- a woman's vagina
- a brain dead woman
- your bedroom
- your text books
- your political movements on campus
- another state's selling of weed
- the pricing of farm produce

 

[Newell Steamer]

at least the republican voters stand up for their principles[/B]

Funny how principles is spelled differently when applied to Liberals..

It's principles for Conservatives.

It's fascist thought police and oppression for Liberals.

 

[glenn1]

No big government!!

But, the government gets to say what happens with:
- a woman's vagina
- a brain dead woman
- your bedroom
- your text books
- your political movements on campus
- another state's selling of weed
- the pricing of farm produce

It is the proper role of government to help with laws to clarify the "brain dead woman" scenario and even progressive states recognize this. Like I said earlier, if Schiavo had put in place a living will, DNR directive, etc. then this wouldn't have been an issue.

You'll need to clarify what some of the others mean, such as "political movements on campus" since I've not observed any serious political steps on the right or left to curtail or limit this, mere criticism doesn't count. And plenty of blue states and their politicians are still opposed to MJ and love farm subsidies.

 

[Newell Steamer]

You'll need to clarify what some of the others mean, such as "political movements on campus" since I've not observed any serious political steps on the right or left to curtail or limit this, mere criticism doesn't count. And plenty of blue states and their politicians are still opposed to MJ and love farm subsidies.

Sorry - I meant political bias: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...nitor-bias-on-college-campuses-is-that-legal/

Carson wants to stamp out political bias,... but, he will ensure conservatives aren't affected; http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conte...-speech-monitoring-would-only-target-liberals

 

[glenn1]

Sorry - I meant political bias: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...nitor-bias-on-college-campuses-is-that-legal/

Carson wants to stamp out political bias,... but, he will ensure conservatives aren't affected; http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conte...-speech-monitoring-would-only-target-liberals

OK, gotcha. I mentioned in the other thread that colleges should self-apply something like the Hatch Act as professors and administrators using their positions of authority to actively push political candidates is inappropriate, but don't think the government should be doing the monitoring. To me that's a simple issue of professional conduct that should be universally applied by all employers. Obviously the Carson approach is wrong and stupid for a host of reasons.

 

[marincounty]

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/11/ben...i-schiavo-case-it-was-much-ado-about-nothing/


I was happy for once that a man of science was running, but I knew it wouldn't last. .

A man of science? He doesn't believe in Evolution.
He has uttered some completely ridiculous statements, it's like he was living under a rock.
He has no experience in politics, and it shows.
I agree, brain dead voters- they are the only ones supporting this clown.

 

[who?]

No big government!!

But, the government gets to say what happens with:
- a woman's vagina
- a brain dead woman
- your bedroom
- your text books
- your political movements on campus
- another state's selling of weed
- the pricing of farm produce

I think you mean a woman's uterus.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

- the pricing of farm produce

Pretty sure this was FDR's baby.

 

[Vic]

That is an unsupported statement. She was in a vegetative state and could not express whether this was "against her will" or not. She also had no living will, no "do not resuscitate" order, or other guidance related to express whether this would have been "against her will."

That being said, I think it was a completely reasonable thing in every sense (legal, moral, etc.) to allow her husband to make that choice on her behalf that should would not have wanted to be "kept alive artificially," but let's not kid ourselves that she informed that decision.

Given that a reasonable person would not want to be kept alive indefinitely in a persistive vegetative state with no hope of recovery, I don't see why a living will or other such preventative legal measures should be required to prevent such a plainly undesirable and unnecessary outcome.

 

[ElFenix]

OK, gotcha. I mentioned in the other thread that colleges should self-apply something like the Hatch Act as professors and administrators using their positions of authority to actively push political candidates is inappropriate, but don't think the government should be doing the monitoring. To me that's a simple issue of professional conduct that should be universally applied by all employers. Obviously the Carson approach is wrong and stupid for a host of reasons.

i don't recall ever getting any sort of sermon in class (or even a suggestion) directing me to favor one political candidate over another. granted, i was in college a while back, but not that far back.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

I was happy for once that a man of science was running, but I knew it wouldn't last.

Because you found out he wasn't a man of science? Anyone who claims the pyramids are glorified grain silos cannot be called a "man of science" in good conscience.

 

[glenn1]

Given that a reasonable person would not want to be kept alive indefinitely in a persistive vegetative state with no hope of recovery, I don't see why a living will or other such preventative legal measures should be required to prevent such a plainly undesirable and unnecessary outcome.

I don't think it's that clear cut. For example the Catholic Church came down strongly on the side of "keep feeding tube in" when asked about a hypothetical person in persistent vegetative state. This a faithful Catholic would likely not be a "reasonable person" by your reckoning.

 

[SirStev0]

Because you found out he wasn't a man of science? Anyone who claims the pyramids are glorified grain silos cannot be called a "man of science" in good conscience.

So ... again full disclosure, I don't know much about him.

I had heard he was a bit of a loon on certain things, which christian mythologists in the science field, have been in the past.

I was happy to hear him defend vaccines a few months ago. And then he defended the idea that Schiavo was what it was: bullshit political soap opera.

The more I read, the loonier he is.
I will likely vote how I vote every year - None of the above.
I just can't knowingly pick between a big giant douche and a turd sandwich.

 

[zinfamous]

So ... again full disclosure, I don't know much about him.

I had heard he was a bit of a loon on certain things, which christian mythologists in the science field, have been in the past.

I was happy to hear him defend vaccines a few months ago. And then he defended the idea that Schiavo was what it was: bullshit political soap opera.

The more I read, the loonier he is.
I will likely vote how I vote every year - None of the above.
I just can't knowingly pick between a big giant douche and a turd sandwich.

Oh you will! And you'll do it again! :\