Cat6 cable and hardware?

[drunkgamer]

Hi all,

I asked a question before about a cabling project I was thinking of undertaking (and am now) but it deviated a bit - no thanks to me - towards installation vs what I actually need.

So I wanted to ask real quickly...for running CAT6/6a and RG6 from a central closet to a few rooms...

1) For CAT6 (or 6a) cable, which would I use if I'm running this in my walls and attic? (I've tried to Google but it doesn't answer my main question)?
- Cat6 Solid Cable
- Cat6 Stranded Cable
- Cat6 Solid Cable - Plenum
- Cat6 Solid Cable - Shielded

2) Can anyone please recommend a company to buy name-brand or high-quality cable from vs. a generic 1000ft box from? Name brands I've been told are: Commscope, General Cable, Belden, Brand-rex, Nexans [I don't know which is better or how much it matters]

3) For hardware, I think all I really need are:
- Single Gang Low Voltage Mounting Bracket (I don't think I need an old work/jbox right?)
- QuickPort UTP Copper Connectors (for CAT6a)
- QuickPort F-Type Snap-In Connector (for RG6)
- Quickport Flushmount Wallplates

Am I missing any hardware I don't realize I might want to consider?

Thanks!

 

[imagoon]

There is far more detail in the sticky but:

Cat6 (a) solid core. No need for shielded, plenum. Stranded isn't for in wall install.
You are missing the patch panel and wall mount for the closet / switch side. Please note that snapping mod ends on to the cable and plugging it right in to the switch is "the wrong way."

 

[adamantinepiggy]

Walls and attic don't need plenum cable. Plenum cable has plastic sheathing with fire retardant built in. It's supposed to be used for cable runs that involve locations designed with forced air circulation in mind. So for example, if you were to run cable "inside" your heating duct work on the house, you would supposedly be required to use it, however this really only applies to commercial buildings that might be running a LOT of cable in BIG ventilation systems with high circulation volumes. The fire retardant is basically to help keep all that plastic sheathing from bursting into giant flames in response to a forced air supply fanning the flames and spreading toxic fumes. In your home with just a few runs, plenum cabling is not going to make a difference in a fire. Your wooden-framed house is not gonna burn any slower using plenum cable for a few runs than if you used standard cable.

As for cabling your home, don't bother buying expensive CAT6 cabling. Just buy cheap. Why? Because even cheap CAT6 cabling will easily support normal home-length runs of gigabit (100baseT) speeds easily and there really is no greater speed option for the anyone that makes sense using UTP/STP type copper cabling. Sure there is a spec for 10GBbaseT over copper, but at these elevated speeds, fiber becomes a better and cheaper solution than 10GB over copper.

The biggest failure points of connectivity will always be at the cable end terminations. Spend your money on better terminations versus the cable. Unless you are living in a damn big house, you aren't going to be running 90 meter drops. If your runs aren't that long, stranded core CAT6 will work just fine. If your drops are gonna max out under 25m (around 80 feet), you can even get away with CAT5e for GB speeds (1000baseT).

Nothing wrong with the quickport terminators. I'm a cheapo and just like to have one long cable from the router to the PC with RJ45's on the ends . Less to troubleshoot that way, but I've done cabling since IBM type1 was the big thing on them new fangled token ring networks....

 

[imagoon]

Nothing wrong with the quickport terminators. I'm a cheapo and just like to have one long cable from the router to the PC with RJ45's on the ends . Less to troubleshoot that way, but I've done cabling since IBM type1 was the big thing on them new fangled token ring networks....

This needs to be changed to:

I'm a cheapo and just like to have one long cable from the router to the PC with RJ45's on the ends . More to troubleshoot that way, and much higher odds to damage the cabling near the switch.

 

[drunkgamer]

Thanks for the great feedback. Also, I read the sticky and all comments a couple times now (not sure how I missed it the first time around) and have a few questions:

1) Why is using a patch panel the "right" way? I've had a couple people via Angie's List come out to give estimates and all have agreed (independently) that there is no reason for a patch panel. It's not like I'll be changing often - if ever - that respective wall ports will all be connected to the switch. So why not crimp connection ends to the solid wire cat6 and go right into the switch? I was also told that any point of crimping into another keystone add some signal loss. What pro's are there over the con of some (even if minor) signal loss?

2) So it doesn't matter if I used 568A or 568B as long as I use the same on all ends of connections? I assume if a keystone requires one or the other, than I used that - otherwise I just need to ensure it's the same on all ends?

3) 110 punch - I won't need one after this install but I can tell this is where problems can occur, so is it better to invest in a Klein or Fluke 110 tool or ok to skimp with a TrendNet or Tripp Lite?

4) The comments on not over-tightening zip-tie's or staplers that are too pinching was good to remember as it might distort the physical nature of the cable, etc. I plan on just using some plastic insulated staples from Gardner Bender at either 3/8" or 1/2" instead of normal 5/16" for cat5/6 just so there is some play. I'm assuming that is fine?

5)

"Many people, myself included, like to comb out the wire so it is neat and parallel where a big bundle of it is exposed - this causes alien cross-talk"

This was a comment left. If I understand it correctly, avoid running CAT5/6 cables in parallel because of 'alien crosstalk'? If so, how can I ever run a few cables in walls or the attic? At some point when pulling them, they will all be in parallel and very close together, especially if pulling a few cables through studs and down walls. Is this actually an issue?

6) Lastly, there is talk about "Drill bit / Auger with cable eye" - I'm not going through a floor, but rather in a couple rooms where there is no attic and only slap concrete under the floor, I'll be going through quite a few studs. Any tips/tricks to drilling a hole in each stud while also needing to cut out the drywall to accomplish this?

Thanks in advance!

 

[adamantinepiggy]

This needs to be changed to:

I'm a cheapo and just like to have one long cable from the router to the PC with RJ45's on the ends . More to troubleshoot that way, and much higher odds to damage the cabling near the switch.

Only if you move the cables around a lot. I set it up, and never touch it again unless something breaks. In fact, I don't know many people who mess with the router/switch side of things once it's working. It the side connected to the PC's you have to worry about, not the switch/router side. And if you actually crimp the RJ45's properly on the sheath of the cable versus the wires like novices do, they are quite durable.

 

[adamantinepiggy]

Thanks for the great feedback. Also, I read the sticky and all comments a couple times now (not sure how I missed it the first time around) and have a few questions:

1) Why is using a patch panel the "right" way? I've had a couple people via Angie's List come out to give estimates and all have agreed (independently) that there is no reason for a patch panel. It's not like I'll be changing often - if ever - that respective wall ports will all be connected to the switch. So why not crimp connection ends to the solid wire cat6 and go right into the switch? I was also told that any point of crimping into another keystone add some signal loss. What pro's are there over the con of some (even if minor) signal loss?

2) So it doesn't matter if I used 568A or 568B as long as I use the same on all ends of connections? I assume if a keystone requires one or the other, than I used that - otherwise I just need to ensure it's the same on all ends?

3) 110 punch - I won't need one after this install but I can tell this is where problems can occur, so is it better to invest in a Klein or Fluke 110 tool or ok to skimp with a TrendNet or Tripp Lite?

4) The comments on not over-tightening zip-tie's or staplers that are too pinching was good to remember as it might distort the physical nature of the cable, etc. I plan on just using some plastic insulated staples from Gardner Bender at either 3/8" or 1/2" instead of normal 5/16" for cat5/6 just so there is some play. I'm assuming that is fine?

5) This was a comment left. If I understand it correctly, avoid running CAT5/6 cables in parallel because of 'alien crosstalk'? If so, how can I ever run a few cables in walls or the attic? At some point when pulling them, they will all be in parallel and very close together, especially if pulling a few cables through studs and down walls. Is this actually an issue?

6) Lastly, there is talk about "Drill bit / Auger with cable eye" - I'm not going through a floor, but rather in a couple rooms where there is no attic and only slap concrete under the floor, I'll be going through quite a few studs. Any tips/tricks to drilling a hole in each stud while also needing to cut out the drywall to accomplish this?

Thanks in advance!

#1 There is absolutely no need of a patch panel in the majority of "home" setups. The only thing it adds is it looks nice. It just becomes another layer to troubleshoot and loose signal strength. If you want one get one, if you don't you aren't losing anything.

#2 Go for 68B, no one uses the 68A except for old/existing networks for compatibility.

#3 Assuming you demand a paunch panel, don't worry about special tool brands you use once in a blue moon. You can do 110 punchdowns with a butter knife or screwdriver, or many other tools if you need to (I've done hundreds of terminals in my past cabling life with nothing but a Leatherman tool). Anyone who tells you you can't hasn't done much work on 110 panels. A special tool just makes it easier when you have large volumes.

My recommendation is to skip the whole patch panel thing in a home, unless you're the type that like to brag about the pretty lights and hidden wiring inside their PC. They are more hassle than they are worth, unless you want something to show your friends (who are only pretending to care). Kinda like I tell my anal PC geek friends, While your busy bragging about your ultra neat telco closet wiring, I've got the girl naked in the bedroom. Basically, no one is gonna give a rat's ass about your cool neatly wired patch panels but you. Not your girlfriend/wife, not your kids, not your friends. They are only gonna give a crap that they can browse their Internet/Facebook. Now if this were a business, someone's gonna care, but your house.. nope... So do what makes "you" happy about it.

#4 A simple cheapo staple gun with > 5/8 staples and good aim work fine. As long as you don't pierce/cut the cabling your fine. Again, don't over complicate things. It's only as hard as YOU make it. Personally, I wouldn't even staple or secure the cable as long as it is laying on something or supported every few feet. Just make the stuff harder to get out if you need to take it out for any reason. Any force that rips apart your cabling snaking through the walls and attic probably destroyed your house and you will have bigger things to worry about.

#5 easy, answer.. Don't sweat the technical details. You are setting up a "home", not a corporate building with hundred of runs. What issues happen with big business numbers aren't gonna have any affect on your 10 drop < 75m cabling. It's when you over-complicate things with patch panels, punch panels and such, you start having more problems with a "home" setups. Why? because they become harder to troubleshoot if you haven't done it before. Patch panels aid troubleshooting for pros when there are so many runs it's impossible to dig out the offending cables. Patch panels are nothing but another failure point for home use.

Crosstalk, paralleling power, etc, etc.. Don't worry about it for your home setup. With a finished home setup, you run your cables (don't even staple yet) and test them by hooking them up (before you do the finishing work). Any cable that doesn't work, just pull it and run another since cable is cheap. Just pull and hang your cable through carefully; don't kink it all up or drag against some ductwork sharp sheetmetal edge or something. Do your stapling and stuff "after" you established a working drop. Then check the drops again after you have stapled/secured the cabling to ensure you didn't cut anything.

If you get that much done, then it's only the terminations you need to worry about, and adding a patch panel onto this just adds needless complexity. Best way to test a drop is attach it to a router/PC and do some file transfers. You don't need special testers and stuff for a home build. It generally either runs at proper speed or not at all. It's not competing with hundreds of other drops and power/phone cabling at the same time where crosstalk and stuff becomes an issue.

#6. A longish 1/2-3/4 spade bit goes through studs just fine and makes a big enough hole for your use. As for cutting drywall holes, either use razor knife, a small keyhole type handsaw, or use a "vibrating" cutter. Drywall isn't exactly hard to cut, it's just hard to cut neatly once it's hung on a wall (ask anyone who has had to repair a hole). Spinning tools like Dremels work, but you will be throwing dust everywhere and drywall dust is nasty.

 

[drunkgamer]

Heya adamantinepiggy,

Thanks for the lengthy response.

As for #1/#3 (is patch panel necessary?), what you say goes somewhat along the same lines of what I heard. A patch panel is nice, but unless you have a need to move connections around, there is more harm than potential benefit from one in a home install. The only advantage I see is that at least once you get the wall to panel connections solid, you never have to worry about them.

As for #4 (stapling/securing the cable), I wanted to keep the cable off the attic rafters because if we need to get some AC/vent work or roof work, I don't want to worry about some yahoo stepping on or cutting cable draped across the attic floor. That said, I need to figure out how to drape the cable from the roof as it all feeds into the closet and not have it bend too much.

Finally, using a spade (3/4 or 1/2 inch) makes sense to go through beams/2x4's. I guess I could just use like a 3" hole saw in front of each beam and then angle the long spade to cut through the 2x4 such that there is enough lee-way to pull the cable through.

Thanks!

 

[RadiclDreamer]

Heya adamantinepiggy,

Thanks for the lengthy response.

As for #1/#3 (is patch panel necessary?), what you say goes somewhat along the same lines of what I heard. A patch panel is nice, but unless you have a need to move connections around, there is more harm than potential benefit from one in a home install. The only advantage I see is that at least once you get the wall to panel connections solid, you never have to worry about them.

As for #4 (stapling/securing the cable), I wanted to keep the cable off the attic rafters because if we need to get some AC/vent work or roof work, I don't want to worry about some yahoo stepping on or cutting cable draped across the attic floor. That said, I need to figure out how to drape the cable from the roof as it all feeds into the closet and not have it bend too much.

Finally, using a spade (3/4 or 1/2 inch) makes sense to go through beams/2x4's. I guess I could just use like a 3" hole saw in front of each beam and then angle the long spade to cut through the 2x4 such that there is enough lee-way to pull the cable through.

Thanks!

One of the reasons for a patch panel is you are not supposed to crimp ends on solid core cable, and stranded shouldnt be run long distances due to attenuation. Do it right and never worry about it again. The patch panel isnt much money and it looks better and adheres to standards. If you dont want to have the panel, at least use keystones and then plug into that

 

[drunkgamer]

One of the reasons for a patch panel is you are not supposed to crimp ends on solid core cable, and stranded shouldnt be run long distances due to attenuation. Do it right and never worry about it again. The patch panel isnt much money and it looks better and adheres to standards. If you dont want to have the panel, at least use keystones and then plug into that

Fair enough...and I do like the idea that once you do it right, you don't have to mess with it again.

I bought a 42" Leviton panel enclosure cabinet. I keep reading their patch panels are not very robust.

Do you know if I can use any other patch panel that would still fit in a structured wiring cable enclosure? Is there a particular manufacturer to consider?

 

[adamantinepiggy]

Heya adamantinepiggy,

Thanks for the lengthy response.

As for #1/#3 (is patch panel necessary?), what you say goes somewhat along the same lines of what I heard. A patch panel is nice, but unless you have a need to move connections around, there is more harm than potential benefit from one in a home install. The only advantage I see is that at least once you get the wall to panel connections solid, you never have to worry about them.

As for #4 (stapling/securing the cable), I wanted to keep the cable off the attic rafters because if we need to get some AC/vent work or roof work, I don't want to worry about some yahoo stepping on or cutting cable draped across the attic floor. That said, I need to figure out how to drape the cable from the roof as it all feeds into the closet and not have it bend too much.

Finally, using a spade (3/4 or 1/2 inch) makes sense to go through beams/2x4's. I guess I could just use like a 3" hole saw in front of each beam and then angle the long spade to cut through the 2x4 such that there is enough lee-way to pull the cable through.

Thanks!

A patch panel is definitely not required. Now if you have one already, or like me can get a used one from work for free, then sure, use it (I don't use one even though I can get it for free!). But I would not get one otherwise unless you are a neat freak and don't mind the extra effort. Even without a patch panel, you will pretty much never have to goof around with the cabling on the router side once it's up and running. You will still have extra cable even with a patch panel unless you cut each patch cable custom length. One cable into router is 1/2 the problem of 1 cable to patch panel, then and another from patch panel to router. More is not better with cabling. Make sure you have plenty of slack. 10 feet of extra cabling is better than too short when you go to hook it up.

The easiest and cheapest way to secure the cable so it's protected in the attic is to use some cheap PVC pipe. Secure the PVC pipe with the little screw-down brackets for pipes to any conveniently positioned attic wood. It doesn't have to cover every inch of the cable in your attic, just worry about the spots where traffic will occur and/or areas that will be worked on or exposed to weather. 1" PVC pipe is only like $6-7 bucks for 20 feet from any Home Depot and 1" will hold 5-10 cables easy. You don't even need to glue the connecting joints of the PVC, you only want it to support the cable if it's hung and/or protect it from inadvertent damage from any work being done in your attic.

If you glue the joints, it'll only make it harder to push cable through. Just push your cable through one piece at a time and then push joints together and secure to attic beams. Being a cheapskate, I would simply route the cable on the sides of beams and things and staple it, but PVC pipe does add a nice layer of protection against elements, traffic, rodent teeth, etc (and it's cheap).. You can make a complicated jigsaw pattern of tubes with it, but remember you might have to thread through or pull out extra cable in the future (unless you feel like dissembling it, so the straighter, the better, so you can actually pull cable through. That's why i said not to glue the joints; in case you need to disassemble.

Oh yeah, make sure you have slack in the cables and have a pull line laid in with the cables in case you want to pull through some more cable later. You don't want super taut cables.

As to the drilling. I can't help you there because each home attic is different, so you just have to try different things. My feeling is that it is better to only go "through" the thinner stuff like 2x4's and "route around" bigger support pieces (anything thicker than 4.5 inches or so).

 

[imagoon]

After all this talking, I still consider a patch panel a requirement. The amount of work people will do to avoid spending $70 to buy a patch panel and the wall bracket amazes me. Then you will turn around and buy a Mod end connector tool. They then show up here in about a year asking why they have cables that will only do 100Mbps etc.

Here is the straight answer: Solid core is not designed to be moved at all once it is terminated. Mod ends are not designed to be crimped on to solid core. The mod end also have a high flex point where the copper can crack. Also you can say you will never move the switch but that is rarely true.

So in short, the work to do it correctly is typically only about $20 more than doing it wrong. Why do it incorrectly?

 

[adamantinepiggy]

They then show up here in about a year asking why they have cables that will only do 100Mbps etc.

You know how fast it takes to troubleshoot a single ended drop? 5 seconds. You unplug the working drop line next to it on the switch, and plug in the suspect cable. If it works, then it isn't the termination, if it doesn't replace the termination. If in doubt, replace the termination regardless. That easy. If there's a patch panel, guess what, include troubleshooting the patch panel in those steps, and it takes a lot longer than 5 secs.

2 minutes to cut back the cable and replace the suspect terminations and attach new ones, and plug the switch/route back in... versus 10 minutes just getting to the back of a patch panel. You know the cheap patch panels are crap and more likely than good terminations to go bad, right?

Mod ends are not designed to be crimped on to solid core. The mod end also have a high flex point where the copper can crack. Also you can say you will never move the switch but that is rarely true.

Whatever .. You are aware that there are RJ45's (which is all I use) and other terminations made specifically for solid core cable right and terminators made specifically for stranded core right? And I have no idea what "high flex point" with a modular connector is. In fact I can't find that particular cable terminology ANYWHERE ON THE INTERNETZ.. In fact, neither can Google... How about you go simply grab some cat6 solid strand with a pair of pliers and with the the other hand move the cable back and forth until a strand breaks.. Want to bet the number of times you have to move it back and forth is going to be FAR HIGHER than the number of times you are gonna move your switch /router around? In fact, I have a singled out solid core strand from a piece of CAT6 cable right in my hand, I've bent it back and forth at least 30 times now without it breaking. And that's a single "solid" strand without the strengthening properties of the other strands and sheath. I can do the exact same with any of my terminations I have installed on either solid or stranded core cabling.

I don't know anyone who has moved there setup around this many times. Sure you can have crappy RJ45 terminations, but that's because the installer is a novice, not because RJ45's suck. Done right and you can "hang" 30+lbs on them easy. I know because I've done it.

You know what the difference between years of dealing with cabling in the corporate networking world and "i did it after I read it on the Internetz" experience is? Knowing when to apply the KISS principle.

spending $70 to buy a patch panel and the wall bracket amazes me.

typically only about $20 more than doing it wrong. Why do it incorrectly?

First it was $70, then it is $20. What is the price? It's always easy to spend someone else's money.. Of course that doesn't count all the little stuff like tools and parts to mount everything "properly". Maybe he should by a good 19" rack to to mount the patch panel correctly and then some regulating NEMA power receptacles to make sure everything is powered and protected "properly". And maybe a rack mountable UPS to ensure 24x7 operation to do it "properly". Hell And while were spending his money, let's buy him a $2000 hooker to pretend someone gives a rat's ass about something hidden in his closet/cabinet.


The OP wants a small home network, anything besides switch/router, terminated cable, and PC NIC between one side and the other is fluff. If he wants it, more power to him, if he doesn't care about fluff, then it isn't "improper".

 

[imagoon]

You know how fast it takes to troubleshoot a single ended drop? 5 seconds. You unplug the working drop line next to it on the switch, and plug in the suspect cable. If it works, then it isn't the termination, if it doesn't replace the termination. If in doubt, replace the termination regardless. That easy. If there's a patch panel, guess what, include troubleshooting the patch panel in those steps, and it takes a lot longer than 5 secs.

2 minutes to cut back the cable and replace the suspect terminations and attach new ones, and plug the switch/route back in... versus 10 minutes just getting to the back of a patch panel. You know the cheap patch panels are crap and more likely than good terminations to go bad, right?




Whatever .. You are aware that there are RJ45's (which is all I use) and other terminations made specifically for solid core cable right and terminators made specifically for stranded core right? And I have no idea what "high flex point" with a modular connector is. In fact I can't find that particular cable terminology ANYWHERE ON THE INTERNETZ.. In fact, neither can Google... How about you go simply grab some cat6 solid strand with a pair of pliers and with the the other hand move the cable back and forth until a strand breaks.. Want to bet the number of times you have to move it back and forth is going to be FAR HIGHER than the number of times you are gonna move your switch /router around? In fact, I have a singled out solid core strand from a piece of CAT6 cable right in my hand, I've bent it back and forth at least 30 times now without it breaking. And that's a single "solid" strand without the strengthening properties of the other strands and sheath. I can do the exact same with any of my terminations I have installed on either solid or stranded core cabling.

I don't know anyone who has moved there setup around this many times. Sure you can have crappy RJ45 terminations, but that's because the installer is a novice, not because RJ45's suck. Done right and you can "hang" 30+lbs on them easy. I know because I've done it.

You know what the difference between years of dealing with cabling in the corporate networking world and "i did it after I read it on the Internetz" experience is? Knowing when to apply the KISS principle.



First it was $70, then it is $20. What is the price? It's always easy to spend someone else's money.. Of course that doesn't count all the little stuff like tools and parts to mount everything "properly". Maybe he should by a good 19" rack to to mount the patch panel correctly and then some regulating NEMA power receptacles to make sure everything is powered and protected "properly". And maybe a rack mountable UPS to ensure 24x7 operation to do it "properly". Hell And while were spending his money, let's buy him a $2000 hooker to pretend someone gives a rat's ass about something hidden in his closet/cabinet.


The OP wants a small home network, anything besides switch/router, terminated cable, and PC NIC between one side and the other is fluff. If he wants it, more power to him, if he doesn't care about fluff, then it isn't "improper".

High flex point. A point where the cable will flex the most. IE right as where the mod end is.

The point isn't that it takes 5 minutes to test the drop. The point is you wouldn't have to fix it, if you did it right in the first place. You wouldn't "test" the patch panel because the cable didnt move and the patch panel is attached to a wall. In the entire in wall run you would test the patch cords. Unless the keystone and patch was some how physically broken. Worst case you spend 89 cents to replace the patch that is typically going to be the wall side.

It is easy to spend someone's money, they have to waste money testing and messing around with a cabling job that should have been done right in the first place.

As for the tools you are the person recommending using a leatherman. The cheap $5 110 punch at the store will punch the connection better and not damage the keystone blades in the process.

And yes, I ran myself a quad of NEMA20's near my 48 port CAT6 panel in my basement.

However since you have dropped to the point of recommending a hooker, you obviously do not want a mature argument and if anything, that should indicate what level your advice should be taken at.

This is the KISS principle. Don't screw up the physical layer. Much easier to deal with issues when you know the physical layer is good. Also cat6 failed on the Fluke tester after 6 bends.

 

[bobdole369]

Why is using a patch panel the "right" way?

Does an electrician splice in your washer's 240V power to a cable hanging out of the wall?

Does the phone company jack go from a cable hanging out of a hole directly into your phone?

It is meant to be an end to end system. Patch panel on one end, jack on the other. That way you can easily change ports by changing patch cables from panel to switch.

Do you need to do it in your home? Nope.

In the marine world they exclusively use stranded cable in the walls to RJ-45 mod ends at both ends. Granted a yacht is a different environment. They never use solid core anything on a boat.

 

[mcturkey]

High flex point. A point where the cable will flex the most. IE right as where the mod end is.

The point isn't that it takes 5 minutes to test the drop. The point is you wouldn't have to fix it, if you did it right in the first place. You wouldn't "test" the patch panel because the cable didnt move and the patch panel is attached to a wall. In the entire in wall run you would test the patch cords. Unless the keystone and patch was some how physically broken. Worst case you spend 89 cents to replace the patch that is typically going to be the wall side.

It is easy to spend someone's money, they have to waste money testing and messing around with a cabling job that should have been done right in the first place.

As for the tools you are the person recommending using a leatherman. The cheap $5 110 punch at the store will punch the connection better and not damage the keystone blades in the process.

And yes, I ran myself a quad of NEMA20's near my 48 port CAT6 panel in my basement.

However since you have dropped to the point of recommending a hooker, you obviously do not want a mature argument and if anything, that should indicate what level your advice should be taken at.

This is the KISS principle. Don't screw up the physical layer. Much easier to deal with issues when you know the physical layer is good. Also cat6 failed on the Fluke tester after 6 bends.

I agree with you completely here. You do not want to be troubleshooting in-wall/attic cabling. If it doesn't work, you can try a new end - no go, then guess what? You're now re-running a cable, which is way more than a 5 minute job. With a patch panel, you toss a new $0.89 patch cable in, and you're good. Done properly, the patch/in-wall cabling would be the least likely point of failure in the entire system, which is important since it's also the biggest pain in the neck to replace.

If it's worth running the cable through the wall/attic, and that's more than a five minute job in itself, then it's worth taking the time and money to setup a patch panel. But to each their own.

 

[adamantinepiggy]

High flex point. A point where the cable will flex the most. IE right as where the mod end is.

The point isn't that it takes 5 minutes to test the drop. The point is you wouldn't have to fix it, if you did it right in the first place. You wouldn't "test" the patch panel because the cable didnt move and the patch panel is attached to a wall. In the entire in wall run you would test the patch cords. Unless the keystone and patch was some how physically broken. Worst case you spend 89 cents to replace the patch that is typically going to be the wall side.

It is easy to spend someone's money, they have to waste money testing and messing around with a cabling job that should have been done right in the first place.

As for the tools you are the person recommending using a leatherman. The cheap $5 110 punch at the store will punch the connection better and not damage the keystone blades in the process.

And yes, I ran myself a quad of NEMA20's near my 48 port CAT6 panel in my basement.

However since you have dropped to the point of recommending a hooker, you obviously do not want a mature argument and if anything, that should indicate what level your advice should be taken at.

This is the KISS principle. Don't screw up the physical layer. Much easier to deal with issues when you know the physical layer is good. Also cat6 failed on the Fluke tester after 6 bends.

So as we both agree, the last inch of the cable is the most likely point of failure (you call it the "High Flex Point"), and yet your solution is to spend lots more money on a panel rather than simply cut off an "inch" off of end the extra 5-10 feet of slack if the termination ever goes bad and replacing it with another cheap $0.25 RJ45. Somehow in your mind it makes more economic sense to spend $70+ dollars on a patch panel to use as the terminating point that does "nothing" but add more diagnostic points in troubleshooting and degrade signal integrity!!??

The cable in the walls and attic is going to remain static. That portion of the cable doesn't care about the end-points. From the wall exit-point to either a patch panel or a RJ45, there is ALWAYS going to be a slack length of cable. This slack-cable portion can be statically mounted whether the terminating point is a modular connector or a patch panel, however there is ALWAYS some slack from the wall exit-holes to the the connecting end. It is just as easy and a whole lot cheaper to "hard mount" a switch/router which and securing the extra slack in the cable which fixes "any" movement issue versus hard-mounting a patch panel (which still requires securing the slack in the cable), but adds a patch board, patch cable, and 2 more termination points to troubleshoot.

I don't know where you learned math, but 5 points of diagnostic points (last inch + patch panel + patch cable + 2 terminations) is greater than 1 point (last inch). Again, your solution simply adds more failure points and expense and yet nothing else to simplify the diagnostic equation and you actually add some BS about the messing with the physical layer..Where's the KISS principle with adding more failure/diagnostic points?? Is your logic box broken?

For some reason you keep thinking that a patch panel + mounting hardware + zip ties on slack + patch cables + extra terminations + special punchdown tool is cheaper and more secure to cabling than simply zip tying the same amount of slack and a few bolts on a hard-mounted switch/router..

And which store sells your "$5" 110 punch? Hyperbole much? Lowes? Home Depot? The grocery store? Guess what, it's a lot more than $5 at any likely-available "local" store and there isn't a lot of discount telecom tool stores in most towns/cities. Oh wait, the cheapest I can find one using good ol' Google is $6 online and that's not counting the just as much for shipping. Hmm, Your math sucks.

And hookers always add something to the discussion, just because you're a prude doesn't mean hookers aren't fun.

 

[adamantinepiggy]

I agree with you completely here. You do not want to be troubleshooting in-wall/attic cabling. If it doesn't work, you can try a new end - no go, then guess what? You're now re-running a cable, which is way more than a 5 minute job. With a patch panel, you toss a new $0.89 patch cable in, and you're good. Done properly, the patch/in-wall cabling would be the least likely point of failure in the entire system, which is important since it's also the biggest pain in the neck to replace.

If it's worth running the cable through the wall/attic, and that's more than a five minute job in itself, then it's worth taking the time and money to setup a patch panel. But to each their own.

As I mentioned earlier. Cable in the walls and attic will always be "static" It doesn't matter if you have a patch panel on one end or the other. Assuming there are no tree rats chewing on the lines, The only diagnostics involved with good cabling is initial length and layout. You almost never replace already-laid cable unless something "external" causes physical damage to it. The only failure points typically on "any" cabling is the wall exit-points or the last inch of cabling termination. These failures are reduced by securing the slack.

Secured slack is secured slack. It doesn't matter what the end device is a patch panel or hard mounted switch/router. If weather damage, movement, or toothless hookers are gnawing on the "in-between" portion of any cabling in the walls or attic. It doesn't matter how the end points are secured and new cable will have to be run regardless..

And again with the magic pricing... There are no $0.89 patch cables at any local stores.. Sure maybe in bulk on the Internet, but that does not include shipping and the volume required for that pricing is much more than any home network.

 

[imagoon]

You don't check the patch panel... because if it is installed correctly, it isn't the problem. Your "test point" is the patch cord at the wall (at the key stone side.) Done correctly, you don't even need to acknowledge there is a patch panel.

Let me break it down for you:

Cost to install: 12 port patch panel is $14. Wall mount for it is $8. "Special tool" as you call it (110 punch) is $5.

If you count zip ties and screws then fine, add $5 since you will use them in both installs.

14 + 8 + 5 = $27.

Your way:

12 mod ends: $3 More because you buy them in 10 or 25 packs. Tool: Cheapest piece of crap I can find online: $10. $7 to ship it.

So mod ends: (25 pack)
$16 + tool $17, -> $33

Delta in cable: Nothing. Delta in tools $17 since you should have the 110 punch for the keystones. Delta for mod ends vs 12 port patch -$2.

Looks pretty even to me. Toss in a some shipping for the patch panel and wall mount and your basically even. So don't waste money on the Mod end tool because you don't need one. Don't bother with mod ends because you don't need them.

Lets bump up to 24 ports. Add $3 for a 24 port patch.

$5 punch:
http://www.frys.com/product/2992335?...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG

The way you harp about testing the patch panel termination points, I question how much real cable testing experience you have. I have done it for 15 years including working with the local union low voltage guys. Once you install the cable wall to patch, the amount of testing you will ever do on those terminations is basically 0.

12 .89 cent cables + $5 to ship is $1.31 a cable. You should be planning the install, so who cares if it takes 2 days to get your house?

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10208&cs_id=1020804&p_id=2132&seq=1&format=2

Also the bulk pricing of 77 cents starts at 10 cables. So the cost is 1.19 a cable.

 

[adamantinepiggy]

Does an electrician splice in your washer's 240V power to a cable hanging out of the wall?

Not sure if you are being facetious here, but having also been an electrician, as long as the wiring coming out of the wall is the required voltage and gauge, an electrician simply adds a junction box around a "splice" when tying into a line. The extra portion of wire hanging out of the wall needs simply to be pushed back into the wall or into the junction box (if the slack is short) or cut off and then the junction box mounted over the hole (non-commercial). This is entirely within legal specs. The hanging unprotected wire is the illegal portion, not any sort of junctioned splice. And like with electrical wiring, the fewer the juntions (or termination in network cabling) the fewer points of failure and diagnosis.

Does the phone company jack go from a cable hanging out of a hole directly into your phone?

Phone companies install jacks as a convenience for the customer. If the customer asks for it, they will wire a phone however the customer would like.

It is meant to be an end to end system. Patch panel on one end, jack on the other. That way you can easily change ports by changing patch cables from panel to switch.

Physical networking is about and an end-to-end "connection", patch panels, quick change ports, and everything else is simply a convenience. If the conveniences are not required, then those conveniences do are not required as part of the solution.

Do you need to do it in your home? Nope.

Agree

In the marine world they exclusively use stranded cable in the walls to RJ-45 mod ends at both ends. Granted a yacht is a different environment. They never use solid core anything on a boat.

Having been in the Marines for 8 years, I agree that the maritime environment has a completely different set of requirements for salt-water corrosion, vibration, and lots of other protections. However too many people think their little "home" network setup with 10 drops has the same environmental requirements as a 1000+ user corporate setups and push this crap on others similar to Monster cables pushing their gold connections and inch-thick speaker cabling..

 

[imagoon]

However too many people think their little "home" network setup with 10 drops has the same environmental requirements as a 1000+ user corporate setups and push this crap on others similar to Monster cables pushing their gold connections and inch-thick speaker cabling..

Since we have already shown that you can do it patch to wall for what amounts to pennies per drop "more." I wouldn't compare that to the Monster cable is selling you the same cable at 10,000% mark up. I think a more correct comparison is spending $500 to have your brakes replaced on your car, using the cheapest pads because they have a "Free replacement" and laughing to the bank until 6000 miles later when the pads are shot.

Grats you saved $20 right now, but next year you have to pay the labor again. While if you paid the $20 in the first place you would have done 50,000 miles on those pads.

it is like this:
"expensive pads" : $500
"free replacement": 1 x $480, 7 x $420 -> $3420

Spend the extra $whatever now and the cable runs in the house will likely last the life of the house.

 

[adamantinepiggy]

You don't check the patch panel... because if it is installed correctly, it isn't the problem. Your "test point" is the patch cord at the wall (at the key stone side.) Done correctly, you don't even need to acknowledge there is a patch panel.

Let me break it down for you:

Cost to install: 12 port patch panel is $14. Wall mount for it is $8. "Special tool" as you call it (110 punch) is $5.

If you count zip ties and screws then fine, add $5 since you will use them in both installs.

14 + 8 + 5 = $27.

Your way:

12 mod ends: $3 More because you buy them in 10 or 25 packs. Tool: Cheapest piece of crap I can find online: $10. $7 to ship it.

So mod ends: (25 pack)
$16 + tool $17, -> $33

Delta in cable: Nothing. Delta in tools $17 since you should have the 110 punch for the keystones. Delta for mod ends vs 12 port patch -$2.

Looks pretty even to me. Toss in a some shipping for the patch panel and wall mount and your basically even. So don't waste money on the Mod end tool because you don't need one. Don't bother with mod ends because you don't need them.

Lets bump up to 24 ports. Add $3 for a 24 port patch.

$5 punch:
http://www.frys.com/product/2992335?...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG

The way you harp about testing the patch panel termination points, I question how much real cable testing experience you have. I have done it for 15 years including working with the local union low voltage guys. Once you install the cable wall to patch, the amount of testing you will ever do on those terminations is basically 0.

12 .89 cent cables + $5 to ship is $1.31 a cable. You should be planning the install, so who cares if it takes 2 days to get your house?

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10208&cs_id=1020804&p_id=2132&seq=1&format=2

Also the bulk pricing of 77 cents starts at 10 cables. So the cost is 1.19 a cable.

And yet you forget, the main delta everything a patch panel requires... Your price ($70+) for a patch panel, not counting the space, knowledge, time, and labor to install.. Nor do you address added failure/diagnostic points or the fact that one thin strand of solid core has more movement capability than any home user is likely to actually move things.

Most people can't install 8 wires into a RJ45 jack without a few tries, in the proper order, and without a few bad crimp attempts, and yet you want to tell them that it's easier diagnose initial problems and to use a punch down tool on the back of a hard-mounted (often non-color coded) cheap patch panel in the back of a dark cabinet or closet is easier and better for some reason.

The OP is not a professional installer nor will he have a 1000 user network and does this everyday of his working life. Chances are he will at MOST have 5-6 devices (maybe 3 PC's and a couple/three of other things like a TV maybe or an XBox and a wireless laptop/tablet) attached at any given time. FIVE TO SIX networked devices and you somehow think he requires all these non-cheap network conveniences he will never take advantage of. He doesn't want to learn your job. He simply wants to browse his porn, keep his kid's Xbox working, let the wife do her facebook thing, and is probably doing it himself to save money over having "you" come over and overcharge him for crap he doesn't need.

Once he gets it working, he's not going to mess with it beyond "basic" troubleshooting if something doesn't seem to work right. Since his diagnostic skills are probably lacking in this department because he doesn't and shoudn't give a crap about learning this stuff, he's gonna call a friend who is probably someone like you. In which case, you can either be happy that the only thing you are diagnosing a simple badly-crimped RJ45 on the end of a long cable, or an entire patch panel mounted on the hard-to-reach side of a dark cabinet installed by a "novice". I harp on diagnosing the patch panel because it will be installed by a NOVICE not a pro as you obviously are. NOVICES DO NOT NEED ADDED COMPLEXITY!

With my simple advice, there's "2" things he can screw up. The cable pull, and/or the terminations. How many things can he screw up using your fine advice? Remember, he doesn't have your immense professional knowledge and wisdom to guide him ever so lovingly. Maybe the OP's setup won't last look as beautiful and last 100 years like your geek network setup will. Heck, he will probably move to a new house before his crap breaks. He might even need to redo the the cable terminations or call a friend for diagnostic help, but I bet he'd rather be out buying hookers and getting laid or something than trying to impress people with how easy he can change a cable assignment..

And still you have no answers on how a patch panel is more "secure" in movement than directly connecting and securing the cabling straight into a hard-mounted switch/router on an item that "rarely ever gets touched or moved once it's in place and even less so once it's bolted down. A patch panel adds "convenience" to often-changed cabling assignments. Home users do NOT change cabling assignments at the point of origin often, if ever, once the network is in place. They might change the location of the computers, they might add a drop, they might add another switch on the far end of the drop so they can short-term have their buddies Xbox hooked up, They DON"T "change" or "move" around their 1st point junction often enough to require the convenience and complexity of a patch panel.

The 2nd point junction is where stuff gets changed and moved around, like unplugging a PC and using then plugging into a laptop. Or perhaps simply plugging in a laptop and unplugging every day. They don't do it at the 1st junction and all your arguments are about this junction point needing a device that makes what they "don't do" more convenient.

If you are to argue a convenience receptacle device/point for a home network, then you can argue for good wall receptacles panels, however a patch panel at the distribution point in a location in the home that is nearly "always" inconvenient to access simply does not need a patch panel or other complex distribution hardware for a simple HOME network.

 

[adamantinepiggy]

Since we have already shown that you can do it patch to wall for what amounts to pennies per drop "more." I wouldn't compare that to the Monster cable is selling you the same cable at 10,000&#37; mark up. I think a more correct comparison is spending $500 to have your brakes replaced on your car, using the cheapest pads because they have a "Free replacement" and laughing to the bank until 6000 miles later when the pads are shot.

Grats you saved $20 right now, but next year you have to pay the labor again. While if you paid the $20 in the first place you would have done 50,000 miles on those pads.

it is like this:
"expensive pads" : $500
"free replacement": 1 x $480, 7 x $420 -> $3420

Spend the extra $whatever now and the cable runs in the house will likely last the life of the house.

A home network to akin to a corporate network like an average person in their Camry is to Shumacher in his Ferarri F1. The argument is whether a patch panel is adding anything of overall value to the OP's little HOME network so he can swap around cable assignments easy. You are now implying that he needs single bolt racing rims added to his Camry (patch panel convenience) so he can more-easily replace his brakes faster..

 

[imagoon]

A home network to akin to a corporate network like an average person in their Camry is to Shumacher in his Ferarri F1. The argument is whether a patch panel is adding anything of overall value to the OP's little HOME network so he can swap around cable assignments easy. You are now implying that he needs single bolt racing rims added to his Camry so he can more-easily replace his brakes faster..

Not sure where you see that. You certainly love arguing this point. We have already shown you (repeatedly) that if you don't waste cash buying the mod end tools and the mod ends, you can install a patch panel for $20-$70 (or less even if you see stuff on sale) more than it cost to buy the crimping tool and to put mod ends on the cable. This is with shipping and patch cords included. So what this amounts to is you arguing and giving bad advice to save someone $20-$70, and a more problematic experience. This great for you because now next yeah they have to call you out to "fix a cable" which you likely won't do for free. Is it job security for you? Meanwhile a properly installed and terminated cable has lasted without defect for 20+ years. Home users typically do move ports, unless you want to have them buy a 16 port switch to patch everything. I personally have a ton more in wall cable drops than I have devices at. I also only have patch cables attached to the switch where I have the devices. So do you have them buy a 16 or 24 port switch so they never have to touch the mod cables?" That sounds more costly than the $20-$70 to throw a patch panel in there. Hardly "bolt racing rims added to his Camry." Much more comparable to putting the OEM pad on for an extra $20-$70 so it lasts longer and needs less labor wasted on repairs.

PS unless the user is color blind, a patch panel is easier to punch that to correctly mod end a cable. The patch panel has the exact same punch tool and layout as the keystone in the wall. If they punched the keystones, the patch panel is more of the same. Also to the point. I was a novice once. Once I had a pro show me the basics, it became obvious why the patch was superior. When I moved up to network engineering, stability of the physical layer made it even more obvious.

 

[drunkgamer]

Hey guys,

I appreciate the debate as I like learning why people choose to use one approach over another. I'm fairly convinced neither approach is "right" or "wrong" but that there are many variables that give pro's and con's to each - and equally functional and non-functional.

I'm torn as to which way to go. I've never done this before but I agree that on paper, I like knowing that with a panel, once I get those connections diagnosed and locked down, nothing should ever go wrong 'cept with a patch cable.

That said, since I'll be doing this over a couple weeks - I'm worried that since I want to test the first couple cables I pull before doing more (and these will be the shortest runs), by punching them down onto a panel and then moving that panel on and off to do the rest could cause some of the connections to fault due to the movement?

Since I already bought a 42" Leviton structure wiring cabinet, this seems to work but it's $100 for 12 cat6 ports and the only review seems to think it's cheaply made.

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-476TM-...1376213&amp;sr=1-1

I'm fairly convinced I'll do fine with this as I'm pretty meticulous despite not having done this before.

It's clear to me - however - that my greatest discomfort and challenge will be how to tear aapart my walls to drill all the studs on two rooms that have no attic or below-floor space. Time to check out doityourself.com forums

Yesterday I took off an old face plate that has no real frame of jbox, just a 2" hole or so drilled into the drywall. I tried putting a spade bit through there pretending there was a beam next to it and ... no way. Maybe a 4" hole or larger, but I'm thinking I'll just cut a 2" trough the length of where I need to run cable and have a drywaller replace the whole patch - hopefully.

Maybe I better call a drywaller to understand the best approach that allows them to do their job easiest.