Cat6 cable and hardware?

[imagoon]

Hey guys,

I appreciate the debate as I like learning why people choose to use one approach over another. I'm fairly convinced neither approach is "right" or "wrong" but that there are many variables that give pro's and con's to each - and equally functional and non-functional.

I'm torn as to which way to go. I've never done this before but I agree that on paper, I like knowing that with a panel, once I get those connections diagnosed and locked down, nothing should ever go wrong 'cept with a patch cable.

That said, since I'll be doing this over a couple weeks - I'm worried that since I want to test the first couple cables I pull before doing more (and these will be the shortest runs), by punching them down onto a panel and then moving that panel on and off to do the rest could cause some of the connections to fault due to the movement?

Since I already bought a 42" Leviton structure wiring cabinet, this seems to work but it's $100 for 12 cat6 ports and the only review seems to think it's cheaply made.

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-476TM-...1376213&sr=1-1

I'm fairly convinced I'll do fine with this as I'm pretty meticulous despite not having done this before.

It's clear to me - however - that my greatest discomfort and challenge will be how to tear aapart my walls to drill all the studs on two rooms that have no attic or below-floor space. Time to check out doityourself.com forums

Yesterday I took off an old face plate that has no real frame of jbox, just a 2" hole or so drilled into the drywall. I tried putting a spade bit through there pretending there was a beam next to it and ... no way. Maybe a 4" hole or larger, but I'm thinking I'll just cut a 2" trough the length of where I need to run cable and have a drywaller replace the whole patch - hopefully.

Maybe I better call a drywaller to understand the best approach that allows them to do their job easiest.

Take a look at monoprice.com for the network gear. Most of the patch panels and prices I am listing are from there. They sell cheap to the public and I use them for my own personal projects.

As for the drilling, I would think a the strip would be the best bet. However 2 inches is to little to get a nice patch mostly because the replacement drywall piece is a pain to break cleanly that small and if you really want the best look, you need to bevel the dry wall edges. In most cases I like 4-6 inches for this work. I also recommend throwing pipe in if you can mostly so you can pull a new cable for expansion. When you pull the cable pull a pull string through at the same time and leave it in the wall. You can get this at the hardware store or shipped from monoprice dirt cheap. If you need to add you then attach the raw cable to the string, attach a new string and just pull it through.

I personally just use the low voltage remodel boxes but if you opened the wall you could box it up 'nice' if you wanted. Plan to pull more than you expect. Random example is my entertainment center, I pulled 2 cabled and eventually pulled 4 more for 6 total. When you have a Roku, DVR, xbox360, PS3, netflix TV etc all in once spot you find it nice to have 6 ports available on need. It is also handy since I use a 2 cat6 HDMI / audio /USB 'extender' to send video up to the TV because the media "pc" is stashed in the basement.

This will give you reference:

Swinggate $10.80
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10516&cs_id=1051602&p_id=8624&seq=1&format=2

Patch panel: (pick off this list) 48 is $40, 24 for $20 12 $18 Best value / port is the 24/48
http://www.monoprice.com/products/search.asp?keyword=patch+panel&x=0&y=0

So for $30-$50 you can get a ton more ports and have a better quality gear than that leviton product.

 

[adamantinepiggy]

Not sure where you see that. You certainly love arguing this point. We have already shown you (repeatedly) that if you don't waste cash buying the mod end tools and the mod ends, you can install a patch panel for $20-$70 (or less even if you see stuff on sale) more than it cost to buy the crimping tool and to put mod ends on the cable. This is with shipping and patch cords included. So what this amounts to is you arguing and giving bad advice to save someone $20-$70, and a more problematic experience. This great for you because now next yeah they have to call you out to "fix a cable" which you likely won't do for free. Is it job security for you? Meanwhile a properly installed and terminated cable has lasted without defect for 20+ years. Home users typically do move ports, unless you want to have them buy a 16 port switch to patch everything. I personally have a ton more in wall cable drops than I have devices at. I also only have patch cables attached to the switch where I have the devices. So do you have them buy a 16 or 24 port switch so they never have to touch the mod cables?" That sounds more costly than the $20-$70 to throw a patch panel in there. Hardly "bolt racing rims added to his Camry." Much more comparable to putting the OEM pad on for an extra $20-$70 so it lasts longer and needs less labor wasted on repairs.

Wow, I mention, that most normal people think it's more fun getting laid than it is bragging how easy one can swap cables around, and here you go bragging how fast you can swap cables around.. And there is no "we" attempting to show me anything that you keep mentioning. Just you...

Have you actually priced "new" unmanaged GB switches on something like Newegg lately? In 1 minute I found a <$100 for a brand new "24" port Gigabit unmanagaged switch (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833156294) which will cover every single room in his home and garage. Or perhaps the OP would rather have the hours of hassle following the advice of someone who'd rather brag about their cool cabling instead of getting laid.. Give me a break. Just because you're a PC geek doesn't mean everyone else wants to be.

I suppose you want to argue now the OP should blow the bucks to make sure the switch is a "managed" unit, because his 5-6 devices are so taxing on the network...

PS unless the user is color blind, a patch panel is easier to punch that to correctly mod end a cable. The patch panel has the exact same punch tool and layout as the keystone in the wall. If they punched the keystones, the patch panel is more of the same.

You do know they make tool-less RJ45's that are color coded and near-impossible to screw up don't you? So what's easier again? If the OP wants a guarantee, he can just custom order a pre-terminated xxxfoot cable from a zillion places. He could just pull the whole thing (termination and all) and never even have to worry about doing the actual terminations.

 

[imagoon]

Wow, I mention, that most normal people think it's more fun getting laid than it is bragging how easy one can swap cables around,

Ok child. We are done here. Come back when you hit 18.

 

[adamantinepiggy]

Ok child. We are done here. Come back when you hit 18.

Hehe, struck a nerve? Nothing hurts like the truth ()..

 

[drunkgamer]

I also recommend throwing pipe in if you can mostly so you can pull a new cable for expansion. When you pull the cable pull a pull string through at the same time and leave it in the wall. You can get this at the hardware store or shipped from monoprice dirt cheap. If you need to add you then attach the raw cable to the string, attach a new string and just pull it through.

Yeah, the issue is that I need to go around two corner in the room (the attic is basically on the other side of the room so I'm going through the wall with the target keystone/plate, through the sloped ceiling, and into the other wall and then attic). So basically, I'll not be able to pull cable through those turns since there will be no gradual bend, but I understand the general principal of a fish line.

As for the monoprice panel, I've ordered from them but...I don't know if that panel will fit into a Leviton enclosure unless the holes in the panel are "industraty standard" for other attachments.

I can order it and try I guess...

 

[imagoon]

Yeah, the issue is that I need to go around two corner in the room (the attic is basically on the other side of the room so I'm going through the wall with the target keystone/plate, through the sloped ceiling, and into the other wall and then attic). So basically, I'll not be able to pull cable through those turns since there will be no gradual bend, but I understand the general principal of a fish line.

As for the monoprice panel, I've ordered from them but...I don't know if that panel will fit into a Leviton enclosure unless the holes in the panel are "industraty standard" for other attachments.

I can order it and try I guess...

Yeah, that is why I linked you the swing arm. You bolt that to the wall, and then bolt to the patch panel to it. Can you link the enclosure for me? I'll look at it. Some of them come with empty 19 rack space (like 3-5U.) I tend to avoid the leviton "home" products because a lot of them are all about how much money they can exploit out the home owner, not the functionality. I have seen the prices on some of those units exceed the cost buy a full swing cabinet used in offices.

Do you have vaulted ceilings of a sort? I am trying visualize what you are talking about. It almost sounds like you had a house and the room was an add on (might not have been just build that way.) Since you can't pull more I would suggest adding a couple and stashing them in the wall. If you think you need 1, pull 2 etc.

 

[adamantinepiggy]

Hey guys,
That said, since I'll be doing this over a couple weeks - I'm worried that since I want to test the first couple cables I pull before doing more (and these will be the shortest runs), by punching them down onto a panel and then moving that panel on and off to do the rest could cause some of the connections to fault due to the movement?

As I mentioned, fastest test is plugging it in, best way you don't mess anything up by movement is to leave it in and not move it again.

Hey guys,

Since I already bought a 42" Leviton structure wiring cabinet, this seems to work but it's $100 for 12 cat6 ports and the only review seems to think it's cheaply made.

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-476TM-...1376213&amp;sr=1-1

I'm fairly convinced I'll do fine with this as I'm pretty meticulous despite not having done this before.

$100 for a possibly junkie panel or an extra $100 on a better/bigger switch/router. Your decision. IMHO, cheap patch panels are worse than NO patch panels. The connections tend to be crap. The receptacles pop out when you try to plug stuff in, etc, etc. hassles..

It's clear to me - however - that my greatest discomfort and challenge will be how to tear aapart my walls to drill all the studs on two rooms that have no attic or below-floor space. Time to check out doityourself.com forums

Just route cable under the wall base boards to points you can go through-wall/floor.

Yesterday I took off an old face plate that has no real frame of jbox, just a 2" hole or so drilled into the drywall. I tried putting a spade bit through there pretending there was a beam next to it and ... no way. Maybe a 4" hole or larger, but I'm thinking I'll just cut a 2" trough the length of where I need to run cable and have a drywaller replace the whole patch - hopefully.

Spade bits do not work on drywall (as you found out the hard way), as they can't stay centered on the guide tip. For drywall, if you want good straight cuts, use a $18 vibrating cutter at Harbor freight. This is a nice tool you just press against the object to be cut and it doesn't make a mess like other spinning tools. If you want nice round holes, use a lock-installation type hole cutter or do it by hand with a keyhole saw.

The hole in drywall can be ugly as long as it is smaller than the cover plate that will go over it on the PC side.

 

[drunkgamer]

Yeah, I didn't mean I was using a spade bit on drywall I'm not THAT much of a noob.

I mean some people suggest to cut a 3" or 4" hole with a holesaw and then put in a spade bit at an angle. The problem is that this angle isn't nearly as big (via the opening) as I'd hope.

So basically I need like a 4"x4" hole in front of every stud or just cut a 3" trough across the whole wall to make patching easier (potentially) and pulling the wire, etc. easier.

I also read...but this scares me more...where someone said he's seen it where people will cut a 4" hole right on top of the stud, then put the drywall back over it...but I'm not sure how the wire is passed through. I'm guessing they cut a notch into the wood but that worries me more about the structural soundness.

I can't run it under carpet because we're getting hardwood or laminates at some point in the future if we can afford it. And for this one room, 16 guage speaker wire, 2-3 cat6 and 1 RG6 is too much to put behind a piece of molding.

Damn these old homes

 

[imagoon]

Yeah, I didn't mean I was using a spade bit on drywall I'm not THAT much of a noob.

I mean some people suggest to cut a 3" or 4" hole with a hole saw and then put in a spade bit at an angle. The problem is that this angle isn't nearly as big (via the opening) as I'd hope.

So basically I need like a 4"x4" hole in front of every stud or just cut a 3" trough across the whole wall to make patching easier (potentially) and pulling the wire, etc. easier.

I also read...but this scares me more...where someone said he's seen it where people will cut a 4" hole right on top of the stud, then put the drywall back over it...but I'm not sure how the wire is passed through. I'm guessing they cut a notch into the wood but that worries me more about the structural soundness.

I can't run it under carpet because we're getting hardwood or laminates at some point in the future if we can afford it. And for this one room, 16 guage speaker wire, 2-3 cat6 and 1 RG6 is too much to put behind a piece of molding.

Damn these old homes

I feel your pain, my house was built when it was 'cool' to put all the textured stucco like stuff on the walls. So patching is a giant pain because you have to chip in to the design enough to get a decent flat edge and then after mix up so extra compound and try to mimic the pattern that is covered with 52 years of paint.

You can notch studs a a bit to get cables through without structure issues but a 4 inch chunk would worry me a bit... I personally think the notching could work (like a 3/8 notch), but the holes in the dry wall are bigger then.

Another thing I have seen done if the wall is small enough, you notch the existing drywall, tape the cables in the notches with drywall tape, then put a new layer of 3/8 or 1/2 inch drywall right over the top. I have seen that done more for home theater people though because it adds to the 'rigidness' of the room which is a bit better for sound quality. It is a bit of work though.

 

[notposting]

Good luck OP. I do this work for a living and it's still a pain in the rear sometimes. On the bright side, whoever rents this townhouse after us is gonna be cabled to the gills. Including a patch panel.

I see an electrician has snuck in here. The good ones leave this stuff to us now. It's not about convenience, it's about following code and standards...if you do that, success is nearly guaranteed. Jeebus...going back and reading some of his posts. WTF. Get a punch tool. I'm actually speechless reading some of his garbage posts. Anyways....good luck OP.

 

[bobsh]

I bought a 42&quot; Leviton panel enclosure cabinet. I keep reading their patch panels are not very robust.

Do you know if I can use any other patch panel that would still fit in a structured wiring cable enclosure? Is there a particular manufacturer to consider?

I am trying to find a patch panel that fits a Leviton 14 cabinet. Standard rack mounts seem to be 19 inches. I have found 12 port panels that are 10-12 inches long and should fit easily into your cabinet. I hadn't looked at monoprice, they have a mini patch panel 12 port that is 10 inches by 2.25 inches. No depth mentioned -- that cabinet is 3.6 inches deep. At any rate, there should be a variety of patch panels that will fit in your cabinet without using the very expensive Leviton ones.

Does the quality of the different cat 6 keystone jacks vary significantly? Are there some specs that need to be met? They run from $2 to $8.

 

[imagoon]

I am trying to find a patch panel that fits a Leviton 14 cabinet. Standard rack mounts seem to be 19 inches. I have found 12 port panels that are 10-12 inches long and should fit easily into your cabinet. I hadn't looked at monoprice, they have a mini patch panel 12 port that is 10 inches by 2.25 inches. No depth mentioned -- that cabinet is 3.6 inches deep. At any rate, there should be a variety of patch panels that will fit in your cabinet without using the very expensive Leviton ones.

Does the quality of the different cat 6 keystone jacks vary significantly? Are there some specs that need to be met? They run from $2 to $8.

The quality of the keystones does vary, they are all meant to meet the spec they list (ie cat6 etc) but how tightly they meet it varies.

To add more to the mix, there are certain groups that say the keystones will only pass spec correctly if you use their cables and patch panels, IE they test end to end (yet another reason to use a patch panel.) and do not guarantee spec if you use say: Mohawk keystone, Beldin cable and a cheap Chinese brand patch. In reality this tends to only matter longer runs. Generally as long as you cable and devices are the same class you should be fine in most residential settings. IE Cat6 cable attacked to a Cat6 panel and a Cat6 keystone. Mixing categories is a recipe for trouble. This stems from the copper being different gauges so the blades in the keystones and patch panels may not pierce and get a strong connection to a smaller cable.

 

[adamantinepiggy]

Good luck OP. I do this work for a living and it's still a pain in the rear sometimes. On the bright side, whoever rents this townhouse after us is gonna be cabled to the gills. Including a patch panel.

I see an electrician has snuck in here. The good ones leave this stuff to us now. It's not about convenience, it's about following code and standards...if you do that, success is nearly guaranteed. Jeebus...going back and reading some of his posts. WTF. Get a punch tool. I'm actually speechless reading some of his garbage posts. Anyways....good luck OP.

Heh, I already had my fun with imagoon so I'll pick on this one that is talking out his ass once he brings up "codes and standards". There is only "one" standard by which the data wiring is supposed to conform to. That is TIA/EIA-568 (TIA = Telecommunications Industry Association). Now if you want, you can pay $450+ dollars to download the actual PDF standard, however it is instead it's easier to just peruse the Siemens cabling information site since it's free. In addition, poopoo-ing electricians obviously shows your lack of understanding actual codes and building standards as (and I'm gonna quote a legal line) "The installation of data and voice cabling is governed by the National Electric Code and state and local building codes." Hmm, the National Electric Code is run by those electrician's you blatantly disregard, yet carries the voice of defacto civil law..

Not discussing electrician type low-power, versus high power electrical, simply data "Codes and Standards" for campus telco cabling because you brought it up.

In regards to campus cabling "codes and standards" (I'm gonna keep quoting this since you put it forth as if you know wtf your talking about) in TIA/EIA-568 (Siemens quote here as the actual TAI doc is a bitch to read) "The horizontal cabling system extends from the telecommunications outlet in the work area to the horizontal cross-connect in the telecommunications room. It includes the telecommunications outlet, an optional consolidation point or transition point connector, horizontal cable, and the mechanical terminations and patch cords (or jumpers) that comprise the horizontal cross-connect". Note: the word OPTIONAL consolidation point or transitional point connector (AKA patch panel in this discussion).

This recognized and official TIA "standard" (not some BS someone is pulling out their ass), only cares about the establishment of proper end-to-end signal requirements. It doesn't give a damn about solid/stranded,or the use of patch panels..

Here is the recognized horizontal cabling requirements (horizontal actually designating end-to-end cabling, as opposed to meaning actual horizontal positioning):

4-pair 100 &#937; unshielded twisted-pair (UTP) or screened twisted-pair (F/UTP).

4-pair 100 &#937; fully shielded twisted-pair (S/FTP) (ISO/IEC 11801:2002 only).

fiber optic cabling structure2-fiber (duplex) 62.5/125&#181;m or 50/125&#181;m multimode optical fiber.

See anything about stranded or solid core cabling? Thought not. As long as cabling meets signal integrity per certain length, it'll do. Stranded core cabling is expected to have a 20&#37; attenuation differential over solid core, however as long as that is taken into drop distance length, stranded core may be used just fine. Stranded core is preferred for high-movement area patch cords, however as has already been established, solid core movement, while not as flexible as stranded core) will do fine for the limited amount a home user is going to perform. If the runs are short enough, stranded can be used throughout and still conform to TIA end-to-end signal standards. The business environment is not the same as the home environment.

TIA/EIA-568 "codes and standards" for end-to-end cable signal propagation:

(Siemens quote)--> "A minimum of two telecommunications outlets are required for each individual work area. First outlet: 100 &#937; twisted-pair (category 6 is recommended). Second outlet: 100 &#937; twisted-pair."

Now you may have more, but two (terminations in general cabling speak) and a cable < 100m in length is all you need to actually conform to horizontal cabling "codes and standards" for end-to-end connectivity whether in the home on a large business campus. Anything in between is gravy, not a requirement.

(Siemens quote)--> One transition point (TP) or Consolidation Point (CP) is allowed.

-This means you may or may not have (again a patch panel is "optional to conform to official standards) "one" connector patch panel, punch panel, or other similar device.

Patch Panels, patch cords, paneling, racks, etc, etc are an optional item according to TIA/EIA-568 "Codes and Standards" as you put it, and is NOT required to actually meet real campus cabling standards (versus the BS you think you understand).

Here's a wiki link for a general overview of what the TIA standard is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIA/EIA-568. The actual TIA/EIA-568 contains tons of stuff not really applicable to a small home network but does actually set real standards, not what you think the standards are supposed to be" garbage.

In practical terms, since "homes" are not complex network environments, which the TIA standard simply references as should generally attempt to follow large campus standards, a simple cable with a termination at each end is all that is required to conform to REAL published cabling "Codes and Standards" (not counting actual local building codes).

In terms of actual FACTS about using a single drop with two terminations versus having an interposing patch panel, in addition to simplicity, there is none of the increased signal attenuation that occurs at each additional termination that patch panels and or devices introduce. Patch panels may add much convenience, however in a actual signal measurements test, patch panels and other forms of aggregated terminations increase signal attenuation (makes it "badder" for you). The only debatable item is whether a tiny HOME network actually needs the movement conveniences afforded by patch or punch down panels versus being overshadowed by the added cost, complexity, and signal degradation the same patch panel would introduce.

 

[imagoon]

TIA/EIA-568 specifically mentions
a) Riser cabling
b) Horizontal cabling
c) Work area cabling.

Specifically mentioned starting on page 1249 of the manual: Summarized here:

Work Area

The work area wiring subsystem consists of the communication outlets (wallboxes and faceplates), wiring, and connectors needed to connect the work area equipment (computers, printers, and so on) via the horizontal wiring subsystem to the telecommunication closet. The standard requires that two outlets be provided at each wall plate-one for voice and one for data.

Horizontal Wiring

The horizontal wiring system runs from each workstation outlet to the telecommunication closet. The maximum horizontal distance from the telecommunication closet to the communication outlets is 90 meters (295 feet) independent of media type. An additional 6 meters (20 feet) is allowed for patch cables at the telecommunication closet and at the workstation, but the combined length cannot exceed 10 meters (33 feet). As mentioned earlier, the work area must provide two outlets. The horizontal cable should be four-pair 100-ohm UTP cable (the latest standards specify Category 5E), two-fiber 62.5/125-mm fiber-optic cable, or multimode 50/125-mm multimode fiber-optic cable. Coaxial cable is no longer recommended.

Telecommunication Closet

The telecommunication closet contains the connection equipment for workstations in the immediate area and a cross-connection to an equipment room. The telecommunication closet is a general facility that can provide horizontal wiring connections, as well as entrance facility connections. There is no limit on the number of telecommunication closets allowed. Some floors in multistory office buildings may have multiple telecommunication closets, depending on the floor plan. These may be connected to an equipment room on the same floor.

Basically you are allowed 90 meters "between the outlets" and "6 meters of patch are allowed at the telecommunication closet and work area but must not exceed 10 meters" Mod ends (8P8C connectors) are only mentioned on the "Work area" section and not in the "Horizontal wiring" section. Take that as you will.

 

[skyking]

Not that this will help the original poster, but one very clean alternative to patch panels is to use keystone jacks, just like you do at the far end. I did that in my home setting because of the possibility that the room may get used for something other than an office. I did not have a good closet for networking.
You can put in two 6 hole wall plates in to cover 12 drops, and there is nothing sticking out of the wall, everything is hidden. Unplug the patch cabling and paint, move furniture, whatever. I have my cable and telephone and 10 drops in my home, and no cabling is visible.
Wall plates are a buck or two, so are the keystones.

 

[notposting]

There are even some patch panels that are made for inserting a whole pile of keystone inserts.

Not really going to bother to respond to the off topic conversation, it doesn't help the OP and the poster involved just repeatedly demonstrates his ignorance.

edit: but can't help myself. Code is the NEC code, good job catching that. All of my installs follow it. Of course, it's not "run by electricians" but is put together by a consensus including installers (electricians), manufacturers, users, labor, research/testing labs, insurance, consumers, contractors, inspectors. Standards are the customer requirements and industry standards/best practices, ie TIA/EIA 568. You need a better understanding of it if you want to argue about it. Your "optional" Consolidation point is not the closet patch panel, but for areas receiving frequent furniture changes (aka cubicle farms). Here is a good explanation of CP's and MuTOA's: das linky. I do this every day, in the last year I've been at the GM Tech Center, Ford plants, all over the Wayne St campus, various high rises, Metro Airport, assorted DMC projects and a bundle of smaller projects. I'm an IBEW 58 Technician with my BICSI and FOA certifications. I've worked alongside the best JIW's in the business and seen how they handle their trade. Hint, they don't do things the "cheapo" way, they do it the right way. How about you?

 

[drunkgamer]

I appreciate all the responses.

I'll admit, I'm getting a bit lost with all this "code" stuff. I'm sure it's very valuable, especially for industry professionals in terms of best practices, etc...

...but for a layman like myself, do I need to read any of that or as long as I do the following, I should be fine:

1) Use the same class for all endpoints and cable (i.e. cat6 keystones, patch panel, and cable)

2) Use common sense in the runs - don't have sharp bends, crimps, leave extra cable on each end, don't secure the cable too tightly (staples or wire ties), etc.

3) Use the same wiring (568B) for all terminations

4) Avoid running cable parallel (less than one foot anyway) to electrical cable

Anything else?

 

[imagoon]

I appreciate all the responses.

I'll admit, I'm getting a bit lost with all this "code" stuff. I'm sure it's very valuable, especially for industry professionals in terms of best practices, etc...

...but for a layman like myself, do I need to read any of that or as long as I do the following, I should be fine:

1) Use the same class for all endpoints and cable (i.e. cat6 keystones, patch panel, and cable)

2) Use common sense in the runs - don't have sharp bends, crimps, leave extra cable on each end, don't secure the cable too tightly (staples or wire ties), etc.

3) Use the same wiring (568B) for all terminations

4) Avoid running cable parallel (less than one foot anyway) to electrical cable

Anything else?

I pretty much think you got it. Basically with all the code it is simple, the stuff you said and don't make the run to long.

Another tip for either keystone to keystone or keystone to patch panel, resist the urge to straighten the wires "to much" basically about 3/4 inch of straighten pairs is the limit. Cat6a is even shorter but with what you are doing you will be fine at less than 3/4 inch.

 

[drunkgamer]

I pretty much think you got it. Basically with all the code it is simple, the stuff you said and don't make the run to long.

Another tip for either keystone to keystone or keystone to patch panel, resist the urge to straighten the wires "to much" basically about 3/4 inch of straighten pairs is the limit. Cat6a is even shorter but with what you are doing you will be fine at less than 3/4 inch.

BTW, I called Leviton and they said their Cat6 patch panel that is for their structured cable enclosures (plastic vs. metal for racks) uses the "A" wiring model and not "B". But it doesn't really matter since as long as both sides follow the same pattern, it's all the same.

Thanks for the advice about 3/4inch. I didn't realize that Cat6 solid core had that much of a twist to it...

My final question for today!

I planned on using these for the RG6:
http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-41084...ckel-Plated/dp/B000U3I2OI/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hi_1

What tool do I use to crimp on the "ends" for RG6 and what are those ends called?

Thanks in advance!

 

[adamantinepiggy]

Not really going to bother to respond to the off topic conversation, it doesn't help the OP and the poster involved just repeatedly demonstrates his ignorance.

edit: but can't help myself. Code is the NEC code, good job catching that. All of my installs follow it. Of course, it's not "run by electricians" but is put together by a consensus including installers (electricians), manufacturers, users, labor, research/testing labs, insurance, consumers, contractors, inspectors. Standards are the customer requirements and industry standards/best practices, ie TIA/EIA 568. You need a better understanding of it if you want to argue about it. Your "optional" Consolidation point is not the closet patch panel, but for areas receiving frequent furniture changes (aka cubicle farms). Here is a good explanation of CP's and MuTOA's: das linky. I do this every day, in the last year I've been at the GM Tech Center, Ford plants, all over the Wayne St campus, various high rises, Metro Airport, assorted DMC projects and a bundle of smaller projects. I'm an IBEW 58 Technician with my BICSI and FOA certifications. I've worked alongside the best JIW's in the business and seen how they handle their trade. Hint, they don't do things the "cheapo" way, they do it the right way. How about you?

I will concede, the consolidation point is not what I meant. I have always referred to the actual junction I meant to say as the main interconnect, but got the non-what-I-normally-used terminology of consolidation point in my head as it's named in the TIA spec. For what the consolidation point nomenclature, I would normally called the intermediate or secondary interconnect as opposed to a consolidation point..

That being said in my naming mistake, even a main interconnect is not "required" in an end-to-end solution to remain in TIA specs for a "simple" pathway; therefore, not having a main interconnecting junction it is not "incorrect". As has been brought up many times, what is good and proper for a campus setup with hundreds of thousands of dollars to spend on cabling does not mean a home with "hundred dollar limits" needs to be modeled in the same fashion.

It is still not disputable that a simple copper-based one-cable end-to-end run loses less signal than the same length run with multiple interconnects. True, any signal loss will be minor, but a business generally uses interconnects for the mentioned reasons of convenience, movement, troubleshooting. The issue still stands on whether a "home" network that does not get moved, requires, or can take advantage of these conveniences that makes the extra equipment offset the costs or disadvantages. Simple is not the same as cheap or shoddy.

In the OP's case, it is far easier to list a pro/con of a main interconnect (AKA patch panel in this case) versus not using one.

Simple/cheap one-cable end-to-end solution:
Pros
1. Don't need any extra special tools (assuming OP uses tool-less terminators)
2. Requires less special knowledge (as long as ends of cable are the same pattern, it will work)
3. Easier diagnostics as both cable sides are within the same close location (assuming the OP doesn't own a big-ass mansion/house, as long as the cable is not bad, the only problem area is the termination)
4. Much cheaper (as percentage of the overall costs, as this is not a large business where economies of scale reduce equipment purchases compared to labor)
5. Easier for a novice to install without issues
6. Better cabling signal (true again, that some interconnects probably won't make a difference in the end, but better signal is better signal, all else being equal)
7. Still remains in TIA specs as "simple" end-to-end runs are not excluded.

Cons:
1. If you move stuff around a lot, you are more likely to have end point failures
2. Isn't as pretty/cool or professional looking


Enhanced solution (patch/wall panels in this case):
Pros:
1. Easier movement/reassignment of cables
2. can segment the cable runs for diagnostic purposes
3. can easier replace the most common failure points if you use patch cables (ends of runs) because swapping out is easier than making new terminations, however no benefit if extra patch cables are not handy
4. Looks nice/cool as it's more "professional"
5. Is in TIA specs

Cons:
1. Complexity of novice-level troubleshooting if something isn't working. If both end patch cables have been swapped and the drop still does not work, there are more things to diagnose.
2. Requires more special tools and associated costs and knowledge to use
3. Extra equipment costs ($100 panel/tools is a much larger percentage of overall costs when the labor is free and if the manufacturer quits making the cheap panel, then replacement parts like bad receptacles can become an issue)
4. More signal degradation with interconnecting junctions (probably not ever enough to worry about as long as length are kept in check, but is a unarguable fact)

Now the debate is whether 7 pros and 2 cons for a simple HOME solution is outweighed by 5 pros and 4 cons of a more business oriented setup. As mentioned, equipment and tools costs are the largest expense for the home novice install. It cannot be offset like a business where labor becomes the largest expense. The enhanced solutions (having interconnection points) is GREAT for businesses setups, however I don't see how these pros help a HOME user. He is not running a mobile cubicle farm in his living room. His emplacement is generally static from the time he installs until he sells his house. If he can afford to significantly rearrange his house structure, he can afford a pro to do the cabling. As he is doing it himself, I would assume he falls into the "cheap budget" category where costs are a factor over "professional looking".

As to NEC code, I should have use the words "started" by electricians versus "run", but the point remains the same that electricians ran that show for a LONG LONG time (since the late 1800's) and should not be dismissed lightly.

 

[adamantinepiggy]

I planned on using these for the RG6:
http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-41084-...d_sim_sbs_hi_1

What tool do I use to crimp on the "ends" for RG6 and what are those ends called?

Thanks in advance!

Coax cable crimper. They sell them (+ cable + terminations) for around $27 at any Home Depot, Lowes, or Ace Hardware assuming you want to buy locally.

The ends are called RG6 coaxial connectors. They make crimp-on and twist-on type. Stay away from twist on because they suck bad.

 

[imagoon]

BTW, I called Leviton and they said their Cat6 patch panel that is for their structured cable enclosures (plastic vs. metal for racks) uses the "A" wiring model and not "B". But it doesn't really matter since as long as both sides follow the same pattern, it's all the same.

Thanks for the advice about 3/4inch. I didn't realize that Cat6 solid core had that much of a twist to it...

My final question for today!

I planned on using these for the RG6:
http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-41084-...d_sim_sbs_hi_1

What tool do I use to crimp on the "ends" for RG6 and what are those ends called?

Thanks in advance!

I recommend a compression end and tool (not to be confused with crimp.) The tool set is about $20-25 but the compression ends are slightly more costly than crimp or twist connectors. However done right they basically will never come off.

Tool:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10509&cs_id=1050902&p_id=3357&seq=1&format=2

cable stripper that will make your life much easier:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10509&cs_id=1050902&p_id=3359&seq=1&format=2

connectors (make sure to match the cable type)

http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10424&cs_id=1042403

 

[adamantinepiggy]

I recommend a compression end and tool (not to be confused with crimp.) The tool set is about $20-25 but the compression ends are slightly more costly than crimp or twist connectors. However done right they basically will never come off.

Tool:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10509&cs_id=1050902&p_id=3357&seq=1&format=2

cable stripper that will make your life much easier:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10509&cs_id=1050902&p_id=3359&seq=1&format=2

connectors (make sure to match the cable type)

http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10424&cs_id=1042403

Imagoon is right on in that the compressions are better, but I never see them sell the compression fittings (just crimp and twist) at local type hardware stores (so just keep the local availability in mind). If you order over the internet, just make sure you get plenty for the job, because nothing sucks more than being 1 or 2 short because you messed up a couple, and if you can't get it local, you gotta do the whole shipping thing again.

 

[skyking]

Graybar has compressions, so does Home Depot.

 

[drunkgamer]

Thanks guys.

I ordered the cable from Graybar and also all the hardware that I _know_ I need.

One final "usage" question.

I've seen people talk about using plates like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Vanco-120624X-.../dp/B0016ZWRQ8

I'm guessing it helps when you have cable for like security cameras, and I might want the DVR sitting on a shelf next to the cabling cabinet because it can't fit inside, but still needs ethernet and the security cable run to the closet.

But I'm tempted in hopefully having room to put this above the enclosure for taking it off when I need to pull future wire into the cabinet.

Any other placement reasons for this (either purpose or location)?