Catechism for atheists (or for anyone else who thinks they're good)

TripleJ

Platinum Member
Apr 29, 2001
2,667
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Given that the young don't like being commanded, I decided on 10 suggestions. Or, to borrow from the supplements, to offer 10 lifestyle choices. What follows is the Reader's Digest condensed version.

Thou shalt not worship false gods.
The ones I've in mind are technology and the economy. There was a time when the economy served people. It was designed to give them jobs and wages and, except when things went wrong, as in depressions, optimism. Now the economy is omnipotent and omniscient, requiring millions of blood sacrifices. We are destined, doomed to grease its mighty axles with our tiny lives.
And playing Gog to Magog, there are new technologies to assist your total surrender, their tentacles invading every nook and cranny of your life.
Yield to them if you must, but please don't worship them. Now, famous writers will tell you cyberspace is a spiritual realm - that the new technologies, by interconnecting human conciousness, are bringing God into being. (He didn't exist, doesn't exist, but will exist by the time the Internet is in full flower.) How odd that cyberspace seems to be about downloading porn, buying junk from the vast dotcom shopping mall and visiting hate pages run by raving bigots.

Thou shalt not fear death.
This is a big change. Over the milleniums, religions have insisted you do so. As an atheist, I believe we already know death well, that the death after life is identical to the oblivion that preceded it - to those millions of years prior to birth, characterised by the same lack of light, colour taste or sensation. Where as religions postulate a smorgasbord of hereafters, including one wherein people simmer for billions of years in molten brimstone. Forget it. In the future you will live forever because your personality, no matter how enfeebled by years staring at a computer screen, will be immortalised. You'll simply jump ship, downloading your conciousness on to a floppy. Behold, the digital eternity.

Don't bother dying in the first place.
The Australian writer Damien Broderick is among many who tell me that I belong to the last generation who'll find it necessary to kick the bucket. Whereas the youngens of this world belong to the first generation whose boots need not come into contact with that battered receptacle. So you may not require the digital afterlife previously mentioned because you're going to benefit from the Human Genome Project that will allow you to linger on for centuries. You will have a lot of time on your hands which, oddly enough, leads to the fourth suggestion. Which is, despite all the extra time?

Don't waste it.
I've long found the thought of mortality useful. It's something of an aphrodisiac to know how quickly your time is running out. Which is why I've always had five or six careers running in parallel. Pack it in, that's my motto. So I don't waste it with with TV soaps or the like. It's better to use your time to think, and to think for yourselves. Not because you're paid to think. Not because it might lead to a promotion or a nobel prize. Think because thinking is one of the two ultimate pleasures, more orgasmic than sex. Discover something Olympic organisers do not know - that tossing around ideas is far more exhilarating than hurling discuses, putting shots or heaving javelins. And thought wins over sport in another important regard. You can do it longer. I know people over 30 still actively thinking. Try that with marathon running.

Fall in love
Do so frequently and with abandn. Falling in love is the most exhilarating, agonising, wonderful, wonderful, woeful experience that flesh is heir to. While the symptoms are similar to flu, do not ask for antibiotics. Better to let the fever ravage you. Or, rather, ravish you. At no stage in life will your perceptions be as heightened as when you are overwhelmed by love. If you're not in love, please correct this by the end of this post.

Worry about someone else
You are probably weighed down by neuroses, anxieties and self-pity. The best way to deal with them isn't to rush off to a therapist or to pop a prosac. To minimise the miasma of personal anxieties, it's good to help people with more problems than you. Work with street kids. Get involved with aboriginal land rights. Wave placards at the Prime Minister or President. Rush off to Davos or Seattle and menace multinationals. In short, help our society while we still have one.

Do not be fashionable.
The world is full of people who have yielded to fashism. That's f-a-s-h-i-s-m, the fascism of fashion. This can involve haircuts, nipple piercing, designer clothing, political ideologies, experiments in gender, philosophies, religions and modes of literary criticism.
Remember, fashions have ever-briefer shelf lives. Yoghurt lasts longer than most modish theories. To avoid being covered by intellectual mould, keep your distance. Identification with a fashion will give you a sort of evanescent relevance. You may briefly glow. But you'll finish up as dead as the dodo or Derrida.
I'm running short of time already. So here follows a grab bag of optional commandments or suggestions or lifestyle choices you may wish to download on to your floppy:

Be curious.
This will ensure your education will not end with today's triumphs but begin with them. Remember, absolutely everything is interesting.

Be sceptical
This is utterly different from cynicism. Apply scepticism to everything you hear or read or see on the telly. Be particularly sceptical of experts, whether annointed or self-appointed, and of politicians.

Be enormously amused.
It is our triumph and tragedy that we are the only creatures fully concious of their mortality. This gives us three things: life insurance policies, spirituality and a sense of humour. Given a choice between the spiritual and the humorous, go for humour every time as, unlike religion, laughter hasn't been responsible for the deaths of millions. But always remember: it's a good idea to laugh at yourself.

Do as little damage as possible
"First, do no ill." This scrap of the Hippocratic oath seems universally applicable. At the end of life, or just before a power surge wipes out the digital you on the floppy, look back o'er the vista that was you and you may find that you've been comparatively harmless.

Be glad to be alive
The odds against winning lotto are what? A million to one? The odds against us being here today, because of the big bang billions of years ago, are trillions to one. Whatever happens to you, you're already won first prize - simply by existing. It's tantamount to winning lotto every day.
Because no matter how crook things get, life, which so many take for granted and consequently waste, may be the most interesting phenomenon in the universe. And there isn't a lot of life around. Even the most optomistic cosmologist knows it's rare - even life at its most basic, at the level of the amoeba or the polyp. Life on this jewel of a planet, in this beautiful and still not entirely stuffed-up country, is a billion times more precious than the biggest salary package or the highest share price. So react to life with joy, gratitude and passion.
 

LordMaul

Lifer
Nov 16, 2000
15,168
1
0
Is this sarcastic?

WHatever it is, I'll be to the point: Quit being stupid and join my religion.



(Sorry, I didn't want to go on in a big debate, so I figured I might as well just say what I am thinking and get it over with. )
 

freedexter

Member
Oct 15, 2000
73
0
0
Am I the only one that was looking for spelling errors? I got bored after a couple of them, so I just read to see if he spelled anything wrong. I found two. Whoopee.
 

TripleJ

Platinum Member
Apr 29, 2001
2,667
0
0
This is a thread pooling some fundamental ideas of mine. There is a little sarcasm in it, but that is beside the point. I wanted to raise some good ideas and was thinking that you lot in here might be analytical enough to see these points I raise and contribute something. Instead I got a comment or two that related little to the post. Some mind stimulation is welcomed here. So who's up to it?
 

kelesh3

Banned
Oct 31, 2000
727
0
0
why is this just targeted for atheists? i have to take a dump. i'm gonna go print this out on some soft non-chaffing paper.
 

ElPool

Senior member
Oct 11, 2000
665
0
0
please dont make this into a spoken-word song like that damn 'always wear sunscreen' thing.
 

syzygy

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2001
3,038
0
76
usually a catechism is a bit longer. atheists don't lead such simple
lives, do they ? anything that can be shrunk down to a catechism
may not be for the godless breed anyway
 

Jfur

Diamond Member
Jul 9, 2001
6,044
0
0
TripleJ,

Despite all the jokes, this is actually quite good! Thanks
 

porschefan

Member
May 24, 2001
43
0
0
From a good atheist website...
<a target=new href="http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/intro.html">http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/intro.html
</a>


&quot;Even if religion is not entirely true, at least it puts across important messages. What are the fundamental messages of atheism?&quot;

There are many important ideas atheists promote. The following are just a few of them; don't be surprised to see ideas which are also present in some religions.

  • There is more to moral behavior than mindlessly following rules.
  • Be especially sceptical of positive claims.
  • If you want your life to have some sort of meaning, it's up to you to find it.
  • Search for what is true, even if it makes you uncomfortable.
  • Make the most of your life, as it's probably the only one you'll have.
  • It's no good relying on some external power to change you; you must change yourself.
  • Just because something's popular doesn't mean it's good.
  • If you must assume something, assume something easy to test.
  • Don't believe things just because you want them to be true.
and finally (and most importantly):
  • All beliefs should be open to question.
 

porschefan

Member
May 24, 2001
43
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0
It's been some time since I've been in a good religion vs. atheist, evolution vs. creationism debate...
 

syzygy

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2001
3,038
0
76


<< Don't believe things just because you want them to be true >>


how is this unique to atheists ? not all religionists are cast out of a
simpleton mold.


<< If you must assume something, assume something easy to test >>


religionists and secularists alike make favorable assumptions. how is
this unique to atheists ?


<< Just because something's popular doesn't mean it's good >>


traditional christianity is virtually non-existent. the more orthodox believers today
would be considered liberal compared to practitioners of old. what is popular today
is anything and everything secular with a little religion sprinkled on top. while
atheism may not never in vogue, true religion isn't either. popularity isn't a
basis for truth or veracity regardless.


<< It's no good relying on some external power to change you; you must change yourself. >>


pshychological studies support the therapeutic benefits of prayer. most secular
people have stable well-adjusted religionists as friends. what better testimony for
the remedial powers of faith in god than that from secularists


<< Make the most of your life, as it's probably the only one you'll have >>


and religionists don't ? the word 'probably', even as a modifier, should
not be in the absolutist lexicon of an true atheist.


<< Search for what is true, even if it makes you uncomfortable >>


so how many atheists do you know who've converted to the riskier side of religious belief ?


<< If you want your life to have some sort of meaning, it's up to you to find it. >>


ok :frown:


<< Be especially sceptical of positive claims. >>


positive or positivist ? how should we treat negative claims then ?


<< There is more to moral behavior than mindlessly following rules >>


there is ofcourse. but we are not defining the ethical precepts of atheists here, so
please continue
 

porschefan

Member
May 24, 2001
43
0
0
Felix...

&quot;OK, you may think there's a philosophical justification for atheism, but isn't it still a religious belief?&quot;

One of the most common pastimes in philosophical discussion is &quot;the redefinition game&quot;. The cynical view of this game is as follows:

Person A begins by making a contentious statement. When person B points out that it can't be true, person A gradually re-defines the words he used in the statement until he arrives at something person B is prepared to accept. He then records the statement, along with the fact that person B has agreed to it, and continues. Eventually A uses the statement as an &quot;agreed fact&quot;, but uses his original definitions of all the words in it rather than the obscure redefinitions originally needed to get B to agree to it. Rather than be seen to be apparently inconsistent, B will tend to play along.

The point of this digression is that the answer to the question &quot;Isn't atheism a religious belief?&quot; depends crucially upon what is meant by &quot;religious&quot;. &quot;Religion&quot; is generally characterized by belief in a superhuman controlling power -- especially in some sort of God -- and by faith and worship.

(It's worth pointing out in passing that some varieties of Buddhism are not &quot;religion&quot; according to such a definition.)

Atheism is certainly not a belief in any sort of superhuman power, nor is it categorized by worship in any meaningful sense. Widening the definition of &quot;religious&quot; to encompass atheism tends to result in many other aspects of human behavior suddenly becoming classed as &quot;religious&quot; as well -- such as science, politics, and watching TV.

&quot;OK, maybe it's not a religion in the strict sense of the word. But surely belief in atheism (or science) is still just an act of faith, like religion is?&quot;

Firstly, it's not entirely clear that sceptical atheism is something one actually believes in.

Secondly, it is necessary to adopt a number of core beliefs or assumptions to make some sort of sense out of the sensory data we experience. Most atheists try to adopt as few core beliefs as possible; and even those are subject to questioning if experience throws them into doubt.

Science has a number of core assumptions. For example, it is generally assumed that the laws of physics are the same for all observers (or at least, all observers in inertial frames). These are the sort of core assumptions atheists make. If such basic ideas are called &quot;acts of faith&quot;, then almost everything we know must be said to be based on acts of faith, and the term loses its meaning.

Faith is more often used to refer to complete, certain belief in something. According to such a definition, atheism and science are certainly not acts of faith. Of course, individual atheists or scientists can be as dogmatic as religious followers when claiming that something is &quot;certain&quot;. This is not a general tendency, however; there are many atheists who would be reluctant to state with certainty that the universe exists.

Faith is also used to refer to belief without supporting evidence or proof. Sceptical atheism certainly doesn't fit that definition, as sceptical atheism has no beliefs. Strong atheism is closer, but still doesn't really match, as even the most dogmatic atheist will tend to refer to experimental data (or the lack of it) when asserting that God does not exist.








syzygy, no one is saying the above points are unique to atheists... They're just the founding blocks...

&quot;most secular people have stable well-adjusted religionists as friends. what better testimony for
the remedial powers of faith in god than that from secularists&quot;

The worst thing you can do, in my opinion, as an atheist, is to hate, loathe, or isolate out of your life those who are not of your beliefs. You may be Christian or whatever religion you want to be, and I may be an atheist, bu that doesn't mean we have to enemies and slaughter each other. Doing that will just bring us back to the religious conflicts that have let run the blood of millions of innocent people...

&quot;the word 'probably', even as a modifier, should not be in the absolutist lexicon of an true atheist.&quot;

The whole reason atheists, or most of them anyway, go that way is because they doubt what is spoon fed to them about the world being this way and that way, and that everything that comes out of that thousands years old book is true. To eliminate doubt from the atheist would be like eliminating faith from the Christian.




The small list I submitted before were not my words, but from that website I mentioned. However, I'll try to defend them
 

syzygy

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2001
3,038
0
76


<< The whole reason atheists, or most of them anyway, go that way is because they doubt what is spoon fed to them about the world being this way and that way, and that everything that comes out of that thousands years old book is true. To eliminate doubt from the atheist would be like eliminating faith from the Christian. >>



since when is doubt part of the philosophical arsenal of an atheist ? atheists casually
deny, deny, deny. agnostics doubt. secular humanists doubt. theists and certain other
religionists exercise doubt as an integral component to their beleif in the vast
magnitude of the unknown. atheists, either the positive or negative variety, tend
to pay lip service to doubt, employing a weak version of doubt, to further their
own prejudices.

some atheists tend to caricature religionists according to the worst tendencies
or by using the most callous knuckleheads as stereotypical models. not all
religionists arrive at the fully formed and mature set of beliefs in their
youth.


<< no one is saying the above points are unique to atheists... They're just the founding blocks >>


founding blocks for who ? atheists ? if so, they then are at least specific to atheists, and
taken together they form a definition closer to the practices of atheists than those of
religionists. conceded there is tremendous overlap.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,578
2,250
126
Porshefan -

Wow. That was a reply! Thanks, however this 'person A' is not going to budge. Atheism is being forced on todays students unfairly and improperly.


EDIT: So you do not believe in God ? Do you feel as if you everyone should believe as you do?
 
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