Catholic Church, founded by Jesus

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: Nimloth
um... wrong? Saint Paul established Catholic church

oh and btw..

P&N!

um wrong. paul happened to be the most influential of the apostles in establishing actual church communities. peter, however, was comissioned as the first pope, and therefore was its founder/leader.

 

[JulesMaximus]

1-800-WHOGIVESAFUCK

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: glenn beck
blah blah blah, lets talk Mormons.....

They are the only one's god was letting into heaven. Until he realized it made his army too small and he was going to lose his battle against satan. The he started allowing in other faiths.

Not even that. They believe that only 144,000 are getting into heaven. Yet... there are 2 million of them world wide :laugh:

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Nimloth
um... wrong? Saint Paul established Catholic church

oh and btw..

P&N!

um wrong. paul happened to be the most influential of the apostles in establishing actual church communities. peter, however, was comissioned as the first pope, and therefore was its founder/leader.

Commissioned as the first pope? By whom? Where in the Bible is this recorded?

 

[Krk3561]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Nimloth
um... wrong? Saint Paul established Catholic church

oh and btw..

P&N!

um wrong. paul happened to be the most influential of the apostles in establishing actual church communities. peter, however, was comissioned as the first pope, and therefore was its founder/leader.

Commissioned as the first pope? By whom? Where in the Bible is this recorded?

Commissioned by Jesus himself.

Its an established fact by the Catholic church, do I need to cite Matthew again?

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Krk3561

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Nimloth
um... wrong? Saint Paul established Catholic church

oh and btw..

P&N!

um wrong. paul happened to be the most influential of the apostles in establishing actual church communities. peter, however, was comissioned as the first pope, and therefore was its founder/leader.

Commissioned as the first pope? By whom? Where in the Bible is this recorded?

Commissioned by Jesus himself.

Its an established fact by the Catholic church, do I need to cite Matthew again?

the "CATHOLICS" established that Jesus Commissioned them?

who is to believe that?

once again, the word "CHURCH" as used by jesus in that particular text has NOTHING to do with organized religion as we know it today. NOTHING.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Krk3561

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Nimloth
um... wrong? Saint Paul established Catholic church

oh and btw..

P&N!

um wrong. paul happened to be the most influential of the apostles in establishing actual church communities. peter, however, was comissioned as the first pope, and therefore was its founder/leader.

Commissioned as the first pope? By whom? Where in the Bible is this recorded?

Commissioned by Jesus himself.

Its an established fact by the Catholic church, do I need to cite Matthew again?

Yes. Please brainlessly copy/paste from the Bible where Jesus commissioned Peter to create the "Catholic Church".

I'd love to see this. Know why? wait for it... wait for it... BECAUSE IT'S A LIE.

 

[Krk3561]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Krk3561

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Nimloth
um... wrong? Saint Paul established Catholic church

oh and btw..

P&N!

um wrong. paul happened to be the most influential of the apostles in establishing actual church communities. peter, however, was comissioned as the first pope, and therefore was its founder/leader.

Commissioned as the first pope? By whom? Where in the Bible is this recorded?

Commissioned by Jesus himself.

Its an established fact by the Catholic church, do I need to cite Matthew again?

Yes. Please brainlessly copy/paste from the Bible where Jesus commissioned Peter to create the "Catholic Church".

I'd love to see this. Know why? wait for it... wait for it... BECAUSE IT'S A LIE.

How many times do I need to post it?

Matthew 16:16-19.

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17 And Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal [this] to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades shall not overpower it. 19 "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." (NASB).

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Krk3561

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Krk3561

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Nimloth
um... wrong? Saint Paul established Catholic church

oh and btw..

P&N!

um wrong. paul happened to be the most influential of the apostles in establishing actual church communities. peter, however, was comissioned as the first pope, and therefore was its founder/leader.

Commissioned as the first pope? By whom? Where in the Bible is this recorded?

Commissioned by Jesus himself.

Its an established fact by the Catholic church, do I need to cite Matthew again?

Yes. Please brainlessly copy/paste from the Bible where Jesus commissioned Peter to create the "Catholic Church".

I'd love to see this. Know why? wait for it... wait for it... BECAUSE IT'S A LIE.

How many times do I need to post it?

Matthew 16:16-19.

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17 And Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal [this] to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades shall not overpower it. 19 "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." (NASB).

And how many times to I have to post the same thing?


once again, the word "CHURCH" as used by jesus in that particular text has NOTHING to do with organized religion as we know it today. NOTHING.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Krk3561
How many times do I need to post it?

Matthew 16:16-19.

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17 And Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal [this] to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades shall not overpower it. 19 "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." (NASB).

root> /find Bible.Matthew.16.16-19 "Catholic"
error: The system cannot find the phrase specified.

root> /find Bible.Matthew.16.16-19 "commission"
error: The system cannot find the phrase specified.

Christ was talking about founding His church on the faith that Peter gave an example of when he answered. Christ did not found his "church" on Peter or any other one man.

 

[jbass]

Well until recently i would have claimed to be a Christian.. now its very difficult to grasp any truth and/or reality to religion..

Basically what Christians teach is that Jesus came here to save the Jews and was rejected by them. Jesus then defaulted to those who were not Jewish and heaven's doors were then opened to the rest of the world..

By Christian teachings, you must accept Jesus as your savior and the only way into heaven. This makes absolutely no sense.. That is like God himself giving the finger to the rest of the world (population? 100s millions?) Saying that the only way you guys are coming into heaven is if these 12 guys start walking and talking and tell everyone about this new rule and they believe it.

For the most part, your religion is established when you are born.. If you are born in the lower US, you and almost certain to start out Christian of some type. If you are born in the middle east you have islam or judaism as your starting point... in asia you are either buddhist, hindu or taoist.. and so on... Of course there are exceptions..

It is interesting to see how alot of the major religions were established around the same time periods in completely different parts of the world... So what does that mean? Are they all wrong? Are they all right? Are some right? By todays standards there is no way of telling who is right and who is wrong or if any are right..

All the major religions have similar underlying principles.. Was religion a way "God".. whoever he/she/it may be.. established basic morals and social structures on the earth? or is religion an offshoot of man trying to explain himself and his surroundings?

That all being said, i believe there is high powers (supernatural/godlike/etc...) What they are is something i dont think anyone knows. If we were meant to know and understand, we would have by now.

 

[Greyd]

Ok I'm not gonna debate this whole Catholic/Christian debate - just wanted to make a statement.

I can't believe that there are people who still believe Jesus never existed. Even MAINSTREAM SECULAR history and historians do not deny the existence of the person Jesus. There are small elements and groups of people who doubt his existence - but they are SMALL and their arguments weak. No respected historian/school of history doubts the actual existence of Christ. To do so would be akin to beleiving Aztecs were descendents of aliens or such nonsense.

Now whether you believe Jesus was God or a person is the point of deabte.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: jbass
Well until recently i would have claimed to be a Christian.. now its very difficult to grasp any truth and/or reality to religion..

Basically what Christians teach is that Jesus came here to save the Jews and was rejected by them. Jesus then defaulted to those who were not Jewish and heaven's doors were then opened to the rest of the world..

By Christian teachings, you must accept Jesus as your savior and the only way into heaven. This makes absolutely no sense.. That is like God himself giving the finger to the rest of the world (population? 100s millions?) Saying that the only way you guys are coming into heaven is if these 12 guys start walking and talking and tell everyone about this new rule and they believe it.

For the most part, your religion is established when you are born.. If you are born in the lower US, you and almost certain to start out Christian of some type. If you are born in the middle east you have islam or judaism as your starting point... in asia you are either buddhist, hindu or taoist.. and so on... Of course there are exceptions..

It is interesting to see how alot of the major religions were established around the same time periods in completely different parts of the world... So what does that mean? Are they all wrong? Are they all right? Are some right? By todays standards there is no way of telling who is right and who is wrong or if any are right..

All the major religions have similar underlying principles.. Was religion a way "God".. whoever he/she/it may be.. established basic morals and social structures on the earth? or is religion an offshoot of man trying to explain himself and his surroundings?

That all being said, i believe there is high powers (supernatural/godlike/etc...) What they are is something i dont think anyone knows. If we were meant to know and understand, we would have by now.

no, that's not what christians teach. God and Jesus mission was always to reach all of humanity. the Jews were just the chosen intruments thru which God / Jesus wanted to save all of humanity. The Jews not only rejected that mission they also rejected Him.

 

[Mathlete]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Mathlete

Originally posted by: Nik
I don't see "Catholic" in the Bible anywhere. I see Christian. Catholicism wasn't "invented" by Christ and wasn't the first "church." Period. Saying that Jesus started the Catholic church and making Peter the first pope is like saying the IRS signed the Declaration of Independence.

</thread>

Like saying the Pope is a Nazi???

Well it's true isn't it :laugh:

Not even with that queer assed smile at the end it isn't!

 

[jbass]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: jbass
Well until recently i would have claimed to be a Christian.. now its very difficult to grasp any truth and/or reality to religion..

Basically what Christians teach is that Jesus came here to save the Jews and was rejected by them. Jesus then defaulted to those who were not Jewish and heaven's doors were then opened to the rest of the world..

By Christian teachings, you must accept Jesus as your savior and the only way into heaven. This makes absolutely no sense.. That is like God himself giving the finger to the rest of the world (population? 100s millions?) Saying that the only way you guys are coming into heaven is if these 12 guys start walking and talking and tell everyone about this new rule and they believe it.

For the most part, your religion is established when you are born.. If you are born in the lower US, you and almost certain to start out Christian of some type. If you are born in the middle east you have islam or judaism as your starting point... in asia you are either buddhist, hindu or taoist.. and so on... Of course there are exceptions..

It is interesting to see how alot of the major religions were established around the same time periods in completely different parts of the world... So what does that mean? Are they all wrong? Are they all right? Are some right? By todays standards there is no way of telling who is right and who is wrong or if any are right..

All the major religions have similar underlying principles.. Was religion a way "God".. whoever he/she/it may be.. established basic morals and social structures on the earth? or is religion an offshoot of man trying to explain himself and his surroundings?

That all being said, i believe there is high powers (supernatural/godlike/etc...) What they are is something i dont think anyone knows. If we were meant to know and understand, we would have by now.

no, that's not what christians teach. God and Jesus mission was always to reach all of humanity. the Jews were just the chosen intruments thru which God / Jesus wanted to save all of humanity. The Jews not only rejected that mission they also rejected Him.

ok well the main point is you still have millions of people dieing and going to hell because half of the world will not even be reached for another 1500 years...

 

[FoBoT]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: glenn beck
blah blah blah, lets talk Mormons.....

They are the only one's god was letting into heaven. Until he realized it made his army too small and he was going to lose his battle against satan. The he started allowing in other faiths.

Not even that. They believe that only 144,000 are getting into heaven. Yet... there are 2 million of them world wide :laugh:

no, actually that is the jehovah's witnesses

yet another reason to not get (mis)information from someone outside of a faith

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: FoBoT

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: glenn beck
blah blah blah, lets talk Mormons.....

They are the only one's god was letting into heaven. Until he realized it made his army too small and he was going to lose his battle against satan. The he started allowing in other faiths.

Not even that. They believe that only 144,000 are getting into heaven. Yet... there are 2 million of them world wide :laugh:

no, actually that is the jehovah's witnesses

yet another reason to not get (mis)information from someone outside of a faith

Nah, I'm mixing them up because my brain is tired and I'm a little stressed.

 

[xirtam]

Originally posted by: FoBoT

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: glenn beck
blah blah blah, lets talk Mormons.....

They are the only one's god was letting into heaven. Until he realized it made his army too small and he was going to lose his battle against satan. The he started allowing in other faiths.

Not even that. They believe that only 144,000 are getting into heaven. Yet... there are 2 million of them world wide :laugh:

no, actually that is the jehovah's witnesses

yet another reason to not get (mis)information from someone outside of a faith

So are you a Jehovah's Witness? If not, using your own justification, I shouldn't believe you?

And yes, I was about to say the same thing. Well, the first part. It would be a little hypocritical to argue the second point, as I'm not a Jehovah's Witness.

That said, it's not too hard to confuse JW's with mormons. Both go door to door. Both have modified Bibles. One argues against the trinity because there's only one god, and the other one argues for plural deities... that's one of the main differences in the theology. That and the polygamy issue, which isn't as much of an issue anymore because of the legality problem in the U.S.

 

[FoBoT]

i googled it, so shoot me. at least it is correct. he was wrong

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
i googled it, so shoot me. at least it is correct. he was wrong

The only way I could have been proven wrong is if you were right. The only way to be right, according to you, is to only speak about religions of which you belong.

Therefore, by your logic, I was not proven wrong.

 

[drpootums]

Hmmmmm....I wonder what Peter's wife thought of him being pope????


And for people who say he's not married, why else would Jesus heal his "MOTHER-IN-LAW"????



If this was already posted, sorry, i didnt read it all...

 

[Mathlete]

This thread got sooooo f'ed up. I will start by giving you my stance. I am a 28 year old dude that teaches math/technology at a Catholic school. I have also studied theology, read part of the Koran, meditated with some Buddhists and studied with a Lama for 1 week. I agree with you that the modern Catholic teachings have gotten so fvcked up that who knows what is going on. Here are my thoughts on the OP

Are Catholics Christians?

You have said many times that Catholicism says that you must adhere to all these rituals and follow some crazy power structure (you lost me on that one). I have to disagree with you. I think that people have the impression nowadays that this is the way that it has to be. I don't believe that this is ?taught? by the Catholic Church. All of these items that you mention arise from tradition and have no soteriological(sp?) purpose in the Church. The Church only requires two things for salvation
1. Faith
2. Good works

Now I have heard argued, that because Jesus never mentioned good works that Catholics =/ Christians. But this is where we differ. Many times Jesus said to the people:

Matthew 25:31 - Matthew 25:46:
31. When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, 33. and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. 34. Then the King will say to those at his right hand, 'Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35. for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36. I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.' 37. Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? 38. And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? 39. And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?' 40. And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.' 41. Then he will say to those at his left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42. for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43. I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' 44. Then they also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?' 45. Then he will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.' 46. And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. (Revised Standard Version)


I believe that this is the part that proves there is no faith without good works.

I would like to know what you think.

Your humble servant in Christ
Mathlete

 

[xirtam]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: FoBoT
i googled it, so shoot me. at least it is correct. he was wrong

The only way I could have been proven wrong is if you were right. The only way to be right, according to you, is to only speak about religions of which you belong.

Therefore, by your logic, I was not proven wrong.

Well, he was correct about his assertion that you were wrong about mormons and that the statement applied to Jehovah's Witnesses. What doesn't follow is that one can only make a true statement about a religion to which he or she belongs, because if that logic holds, you're both wrong.

 

[drpootums]

yes...yes...good works are "good". However, didnt Jesus call all of our good deeds "dirty rags"? Good works doesnt not get us into heaven. When Jesus died on the cross, he said "It is finished"---that's right, no good works needed to go to heaven

If Catholics want to do good works, then fine, go ahead, but remember that "good" works are not going to get us into heaven!

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: xirtam

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: FoBoT
i googled it, so shoot me. at least it is correct. he was wrong

The only way I could have been proven wrong is if you were right. The only way to be right, according to you, is to only speak about religions of which you belong.

Therefore, by your logic, I was not proven wrong.

Well, he was correct about his assertion that you were wrong about mormons and that the statement applied to Jehovah's Witnesses. What doesn't follow is that one can only make a true statement about a religion to which he or she belongs, because if that logic holds, you're both wrong.

:thumbsup: