Catholic Church, founded by Jesus

[ZachMarius]

Originally posted by: Mucho

Originally posted by: TheLonelyPhoenix
The Catholic Church wasn't "founded" by Jesus, Jesus established Christianity.

Then, in about 600 A.D., the Bishop of Rome broke off his little "section" of the religion and called it the Catholic Church, and started calling himself the Pope.

Orthodox Christianity is the closest form of Christianity to what really existed after Christ said "Go forth and preach to all nations".

This is the only sensible post in this stupid thread.

I agree with you on that. And it provides the only plausible and correct information.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: ZachMarius

Originally posted by: Mucho

Originally posted by: TheLonelyPhoenix
The Catholic Church wasn't "founded" by Jesus, Jesus established Christianity.

Then, in about 600 A.D., the Bishop of Rome broke off his little "section" of the religion and called it the Catholic Church, and started calling himself the Pope.

Orthodox Christianity is the closest form of Christianity to what really existed after Christ said "Go forth and preach to all nations".

This is the only sensible post in this stupid thread.

I agree with you on that. And it provides the only plausible and correct information.

/thread, please, for the love of God, just let it go...

 

[ZachMarius]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Mathlete

Originally posted by: Nik
I don't see "Catholic" in the Bible anywhere. I see Christian. Catholicism wasn't "invented" by Christ and wasn't the first "church." Period. Saying that Jesus started the Catholic church and making Peter the first pope is like saying the IRS signed the Declaration of Independence.

</thread>

Like saying the Pope is a Nazi???

Well it's true isn't it :laugh:

yes it is. Read up on the new pope's background.

 

[ZachMarius]

Originally posted by: Attrox
Another point is regarding the pope's death.
I know that he was a good person and has done tremendous good too. But why the treatment as if he was some sort of God who died?
Even peter (correct me if I'm wrong) chose to not glorified his own death.

You are correct. Peter chose to be crucified upside down so that he would not be seen as a christ or god-head. He would have been crucified anyway but it was his choice not to be glorified as jesus was.

 

[ZachMarius]

Originally posted by: Tom
Jesus also started Mcdonalds, but he lacked marketing skills.

Now we've gone stupid.

 

[ZachMarius]

Originally posted by: FoBoT

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: glenn beck
blah blah blah, lets talk Mormons.....

They are the only one's god was letting into heaven. Until he realized it made his army too small and he was going to lose his battle against satan. The he started allowing in other faiths.

Not even that. They believe that only 144,000 are getting into heaven. Yet... there are 2 million of them world wide :laugh:

no, actually that is the jehovah's witnesses

yet another reason to not get (mis)information from someone outside of a faith

But Jehovah's witnesses believe themselves to be mormons.

 

[PurdueRy]

Jesus created the catholic church....

but he was not the creator of the Catholic church(Hence the Holy catholic church in the apostles creed even in protestant churches). For those who don't know, I am saying that Jesus did not create the RCC.

And Mr. Valedictorian, the quote you keep posting from the bible regarding Peter and Jesus talking, there is no mention of Catholic Church or Popes! I think Nik pointed that out. If you want to add in words, go right ahead.

 

[Tool]

i'm always/never surprised to see threads like this go on and on.

who gives a sh1t...plain and simple. try arguing about something important. :shakes his head: amazing how you idiots go on and one about these things. Religion really let's the idiots shine.

...and this coming from someone that went to catholic school his entire life.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: Tool
i'm always/never surprised to see threads like this go on and on.

who gives a sh1t...plain and simple. try arguing about something important. :shakes his head: amazing how you idiots go on and one about these things. Religion really let's the idiots shine.

...and this coming from someone that went to catholic school his entire life.

Because religion is not important compared to all the USEFUL ATOT topics out there.

"What's your favorite Japanese snack? "
" woah...I thoght dug777 was handicapped?"
"OMFG proofs that KILLZONE 2 VIDEO isnt CGI???"

GREAT point...right....

 

[classy]

For the one millionth time the rock was the revelation that Jesus is the Christ, not Peter. And besides Peter couldn't have founded the Catholic Church for several reasons. One he was married and two Peter didn't believe that salvation was for the Gentiles. He needed God to give him a vision to straighten him out about salvation, then God sent him to Cornelius' house. Peter even wrote that Paul was to carry the gospel to the Gentiles. Wish people would read the bible for a change.

 

[glen]

Jesus did not leave behind a Bible.
He left a Church.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Originally posted by: Krk3561

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: exilera

Originally posted by: Krk3561

Originally posted by: Horus
WRAONG!

Roman Catholics believe in the Holy Trinity. Father(God), Son(Jesus) and Holy Ghost(Holy Spirit).

Peter(one of the 12 Diciples) was the first one to actively preach the teachings of Jesus. Jesus did NOT found the R.C. faith, he is one of the cornerstones of it.

Where did you hear this from, or did you make it up? I just graduated Valedictorian of 525 kids from a Catholic high school yesturday.

Quote from Krk3561: "I'm fvcking Jewish and even I know this."

SHENS you hypocritical poser.

Many non-Catholics send their kids to Catholic schools merely because they are often the best local private schools to be found.

A large portion of my school is not Catholic, we have a lot of protestants and a few Jews too.

What wrong with an education in academics along with morality and ethics too?

The school understands that and Catholicism isnt forced down anyones throat, but it is a Catholic school so it is still there. In fact, my theology class that i was taking was World Religions, and we learned about how every religion hold truths and reveals some aspect of God.

My school is #3 on this list:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/m...e/05/11/top.high.school0516/index.html

So how does it feel to go to a Catholic high school named for a Saint that was buried alive?

Your faith in your education is amusing, especially considering how limited that education is. You ought to take some university level classes. Study of the Bible and History of the Early Christian Church would teach you a thing or two, provided your professor was not completely ignorant on the subject.

Besides, Jack T. Chick knows the truth, that Catholics aren't Christians.

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: glen
Jesus did not leave behind a Bible.
He left a Church.

The birth of the church is from the word. Without the "Word of God", the Bible, there would be no church.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

On a semi-related note, I made a new character in City of Heroes.

His real identity is Pope John Paul III. He traveled back in time to save the Catholic church from pedophile priests, monetary problems, and Catholic high school valedictorians that failed spelling.

Super Pope!

Here he is bringing the word of Gawd to the evil drug-using bad guys.

His battle cry is, "I kick ass for the Lord!"

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: Tool
i'm always/never surprised to see threads like this go on and on.

who gives a sh1t...plain and simple. try arguing about something important. :shakes his head: amazing how you idiots go on and one about these things. Religion really let's the idiots shine.

...and this coming from someone that went to catholic school his entire life.

Oh I'm sorry all of eternity is less important to you than the millions of trivial topics that pop up in off topic everday. As they've said time and time again, if you don't like it don't click on the topic. Considering how fast these threads grow, obviously it's important to some people.

 

[glen]

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: glen
Jesus did not leave behind a Bible.
He left a Church.

The birth of the church is from the word. Without the "Word of God", the Bible, there would be no church.

The Church existed for hundreds of years before the Bible.
Did you not know that?

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: glen

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: glen
Jesus did not leave behind a Bible.
He left a Church.

The birth of the church is from the word. Without the "Word of God", the Bible, there would be no church.

The Church existed for hundreds of years before the Bible.
Did you not know that?

The Word was Jesus.

 

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: ZachMarius

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Mathlete

Originally posted by: Nik
I don't see "Catholic" in the Bible anywhere. I see Christian. Catholicism wasn't "invented" by Christ and wasn't the first "church." Period. Saying that Jesus started the Catholic church and making Peter the first pope is like saying the IRS signed the Declaration of Independence.

</thread>

Like saying the Pope is a Nazi???

Well it's true isn't it :laugh:

yes it is. Read up on the new pope's background.

You mean how every young male was forced to join the Hitler Youth? Or how about the part about his desertion from the German Army before the end of the war?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: glen
I am not sure the folks who say Catholics are not Christian are interested in seriously looking at the issue.
Typically part of the problems stems from them holding the idea that Scripture, rather than the Church, is the final Authority on earth.
Even the Bible says that the Church is the pillar of all truth.

This is true. Catholics worship the Church and Protestants worship the Bible. Both are idolatry, as neither worship God.

Originally posted by: Amused
In fact, it has always been my belief that Christianity should really be called "Paulism."

My belief as well.

Originally posted by: Nimloth
I think if Jesus would be alive today he wouldn't endorse a single religion existing today. As a matter of fact our society would probably lock him up in a mental institution.

No, we would kill Him. In fact, those who claim the greatest belief in Him would the ones most active in seeking His death, just as it was the Jewish holy men who killed Him 2,000 years ago.

Originally posted by: Mathlete
I believe that this is the part that proves there is no faith without good works.

Jesus repeatedly said that both faith AND good deeds are required. Neither can exist without the other. If one truly believes, then one will act in accordance to his beliefs. If one does not act in accordance to his stated beliefs, then one does not actually believe. End of story.

The Catholic church (and the word Catholic means a generally [or universally] accepted singular, in modern English the name Catholic church would mean "The One True Church") was established in 325AD during the First Council of Nicaea, during the reign of the Roman emperor Constantine. It was at this council that the belief of the Holy Trinity was invented (virtually out thin air, in order to condemn Arianism as heresy, and to elevate Jesus to a status equal to God the Father, a status that He did not have before) and the individual books of the Bible were chosen (where some were selected while others that did not match the newly created faith, like the Book of Thomas for example, were rejected).

Catholicism is Christianity every bit as much as Protestantism is Christianity. Was Catholicism founded by Jesus? No, it most certainly was not.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: Vic
Jesus repeatedly said that both faith AND good deeds are required. Neither can exist without the other. If one truly believes, then one will act in accordance to his beliefs. If one does not act in accordance to his stated beliefs, then one does not actually believe. End of story.

That isn't to say works are required, but are a result of faith. Works without faith does not get you into heaven, and faith can exist without works in limited circumstances, thus faith is the singular ingredient. Works are a result of active faith, when possible.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: KruptosAngelos

Originally posted by: Vic
Jesus repeatedly said that both faith AND good deeds are required. Neither can exist without the other. If one truly believes, then one will act in accordance to his beliefs. If one does not act in accordance to his stated beliefs, then one does not actually believe. End of story.

That isn't to say works are required, but are a result of faith. Works without faith does not get you into heaven, and faith can exist without works in limited circumstances, thus faith is the singular ingredient. Works are a result of active faith, when possible.

Neither can be singular. That is an excuse that Protestants like to make to justify their sinful lives (just as Catholics like confession, when actually repentence is to be done in private prayer before God only). Neither works without fatih, nor faith without works, because not only must you believe but you must keep the commandments as well.

As an example of this, read Matthew 19:16-30.

edit: I would like to point out that the whole works vs. faith argument came about because the Catholic church at one point required indulgences, and Luther's reformation was really a kind of protest against an immoral form of taxation. In that case, works were the granting of salvation by one human to another, which is what Ephesians 2:8-9 expressly forbids. Works are otherwise described in the NT are actually good deeds, righteous living, and keeping the commandments. If we were not commanded to keep them, then why oh why are they called commandments?
Now, because I know all Protestants love Ephesians 2:8-9, read that passage again and this time remember to read verse 10 in order to keep it all in context. Then hopefully you will realize that you must have faith, that you were created by God for the purpose of and commanded to do good deeds, and that salvation is the gift of God solely, and cannot be given one human to another. That is what that passage really means.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: KruptosAngelos

Originally posted by: Vic
Jesus repeatedly said that both faith AND good deeds are required. Neither can exist without the other. If one truly believes, then one will act in accordance to his beliefs. If one does not act in accordance to his stated beliefs, then one does not actually believe. End of story.

That isn't to say works are required, but are a result of faith. Works without faith does not get you into heaven, and faith can exist without works in limited circumstances, thus faith is the singular ingredient. Works are a result of active faith, when possible.

Neither can be singular. That is an excuse that Prostestants like to make to justify their sinful lives. Neither works without fatih, nor faith without works, because not only must you believe but you must keep the commandments as well.

As an example of this, read Matthew 19:16-30.

It's not an excuse. It's like this. You get the cow, you get the milk. But getting milk doesn't mean you get the cow. And sometimes... rarely... you get the cow without the milk. In some foreign land, in a jungle you've never been to, in a galaxy far far away... someone could be touched by God... and taken away before he has any works to prove it to anyone except God.

Did you miss all the verses that say by God's grace alone through faith we are saved?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: KruptosAngelos
It's not an excuse. It's like this. You get the cow, you get the milk. But getting milk doesn't mean you get the cow. And sometimes... rarely... you get the cow without the milk. In some foreign land, in a jungle you've never been to, in a galaxy far far away... someone could be touched by God... and taken away before he has any works to prove it to anyone except God.

Did you miss all the verses that say by God's grace alone through faith we are saved?

I addressed them in my edit. Read above. Your cow/milk analogy is hilariously wrong.

How about Matthew 7:21? "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

It's an excuse. If you truly believe, you will keep the commandments. If you keep the commandments, it must be because you truly believe. The idea that faith and righteousness are separate is one of the greatest fallacies of all of modern Christianity. They are in fact one and the same, just as Jesus taught us.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: Vic
I addressed them in my edit. Read above. Your cow/milk analogy is hilariously wrong.

How about Matthew 7:21? "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

It's an excuse. If you truly believe, you will keep the commandments. If you keep the commandments, it must be because you truly believe. The idea that faith and righteousness are separate is one of the greatest fallacies of all of modern Christianity. They are in fact one and the same, just as Jesus taught us.

I don't think you are understanding this at all

They aren't seperate, they are together. But works are piggyback to faith. The only thing that matters is intention. Intention is faith in God. Only by God's grace through faith are you saved. The works are just part of the faith package. It's not a dual requirement, it's a single requirement. You are the one making them sound seperate, not me.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: KruptosAngelos
It's not an excuse. It's like this. You get the cow, you get the milk. But getting milk doesn't mean you get the cow. And sometimes... rarely... you get the cow without the milk. In some foreign land, in a jungle you've never been to, in a galaxy far far away... someone could be touched by God... and taken away before he has any works to prove it to anyone except God.

Did you miss all the verses that say by God's grace alone through faith we are saved?

I addressed them in my edit. Read above. Your cow/milk analogy is hilariously wrong.

How about Matthew 7:21? "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

It's an excuse. If you truly believe, you will keep the commandments. If you keep the commandments, it must be because you truly believe. The idea that faith and righteousness are separate is one of the greatest fallacies of all of modern Christianity. They are in fact one and the same, just as Jesus taught us.

Just because you keep the commandments doesn't mean you're saved. I know lots of "good people" who follow the commandments but they don't have faith. They're not saved.