Catholic Church, founded by Jesus

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Nik
Just because you keep the commandments doesn't mean you're saved. I know lots of "good people" who follow the commandments but they don't have faith. They're not saved.

If they keep the commandments, it is because they have faith. They just might not call God by the same name that you do.

The whole and entire reason that Protestants created the faith vs. works argument was to grant exclusivity to their only particular brand of faith. So that they could condemn other righteous peoples on earth. In other words, so they could say "Nanny nanny ha ha, we're saved and you're not." So they they could boast, in direct contradiction of Ephesians 2:8, for is not the status of being "born again" something that they grant to themselves, one human to another? Just as you have taken the place of God and have judged and denied salavation to those "lots of good people," even despite their righteous obedience to God's commandments.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: KruptosAngelos
I don't think you are understanding this at all

They aren't seperate, they are together. But works are piggyback to faith. The only thing that matters is intention. Intention is faith in God. Only by God's grace through faith are you saved. The works are just part of the faith package. It's not a dual requirement, it's a single requirement. You are the one making them sound seperate, not me.

Really? So if a person live the most righteous of lives, keeping all the commandments of the Bible, loving God and his neighbor, but doesn't proclaim faith in the particular god of KruptosAngelos, then you think that person will be saved?

I'm not making them sound separate, I am saying that faith and works are one and the same, and that neither piggybacks on the other.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Nik
Just because you keep the commandments doesn't mean you're saved. I know lots of "good people" who follow the commandments but they don't have faith. They're not saved.

If they keep the commandments, it is because they have faith. They just might not call God by the same name that you do.

The whole and entire reason that Protestants created the faith vs. works argument was to grant exclusivity to their only particular brand of faith. So that they could condemn other righteous peoples on earth. In other words, so they could say "Nanny nanny ha ha, we're saved and you're not." So they they could boast, in direct contradiction of Ephesians 2:8, for is not the status of being "born again" something that they grant to themselves, one human to another? Just as you have taken the place of God and have judged and denied salavation to those "lots of good people," even despite their righteous obedience to God's commandments.

I see what you're saying but just because someone follows the commandments doesn't mean they're saved. You're saying that it's impossible to follow the teachings of Christ unless you are saved. If you're already saved, following the commandments isn't going to make you any more saved. Being saved may result in someone following the commandments but following the commandments aren't a requirement of being saved -they're a result.

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: glen

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: glen
Jesus did not leave behind a Bible.
He left a Church.

The birth of the church is from the word. Without the "Word of God", the Bible, there would be no church.

The Church existed for hundreds of years before the Bible.
Did you not know that?

The bible is a compliation of the word of God. The church is a part of that word. The bible (compliation of the word) supercedes the church. Without it the church would not exist.

 

[glen]

Originally posted by: classy
Without it the church would not exist.

Then how did the church exist for hundreds of years before the bible?

 

[Malak]

Really? So if a person live the most righteous of lives, keeping all the commandments of the Bible, loving God and his neighbor, but doesn't proclaim faith in the particular god of KruptosAngelos, then you think that person will be saved?

I'm not making them sound separate, I am saying that faith and works are one and the same, and that neither piggybacks on the other.

By saying works are a requirement for salvation, you make it seperate, and imply things that are not true.

 

[EmperorRob]

Originally posted by: glen

Originally posted by: classy
Without it the church would not exist.

Then how did the church exist for hundreds of years before the bible?

The Bible is a compilation of the Word of God. The Word of God has always existed. John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."