Catholic Priests and marriage: Poll

[newParadigm]

Originally posted by: dragonballgtz
I thought it said in the bible you should have a wife no matter who you are.

Nope, says the opposite,

7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.
9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

Its better if you can reamin unamarried, unless the desire for sex is too great, then you shoud lmarry to avoid fornication (or molestation).

~new

 

[newParadigm]

Originally posted by: WooDaddy
You know.. I have to say most of the people supporting marriage here seem not to support for religious reasons but for social reasons..

I'm actually kinda disappointed. That's actually the reason why male priests were the only ones allowed in the first place; for social reasons. Not like I'm trying to put words in your mouth.. (ok, yeah I am ) but it should be a return back to the religion and Christianity says nothing about not letting women speak the word and gospel...

Hell, I'm going to start a flame war by doing this... BUT...

If we were to follow the teachings of the New Testament, the Catholic branch of Christianity should be abolished..
Yup, I said it.. There really shouldn't be hugely different denominations, such as in this case Catholic and Protestant.

Ok.. Let the flames begin.

(BTW, I'm being a slight devil's advocate, no pun intended)

ACtually, it does say that women shouldn't preach in the synagogues (note, they shoudl still preach to people on their own)

9 ¶ In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

~new

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
There are reasons for priests to not marry.. Focusing on the job and whatnot. There is NO reason to now allow women to be priests. It's pure sexism. Remember, women weren't allowed to do a lot of things a few decades ago.

Biblically that is error. After Christ arose and men and women could be born again, its the spirit of person that determines whether or not they have the call of God. In the old testament men were at the forefront because of the order of law and the spirit of man was still seperated from direct contact with God. But even some women like Ruth found tremendous favor with God and he used them instead. Shame most christians don't read the manual that came with the belief. If most christians read the bible which should be and better be the foundation of what you believe, a lot of the error in christianity wouldn't exist.

Where does the Bible say that it is the foundation of what you should believe? Quote: "The pillar and foundation of Truth is the Church."

Protestants seem to forget that.

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
There are reasons for priests to not marry.. Focusing on the job and whatnot. There is NO reason to now allow women to be priests. It's pure sexism. Remember, women weren't allowed to do a lot of things a few decades ago.

Read this.

I'm constantly amazed by the ridiculous crap that some people can come up with -- all of these things that the Church apparently officially supports, etc..but how many of you really know the official teachings of the Church? I doubt more than 10%..if even that.

Heck, I don't claim to be an expert on Catholicism either, unlike how many vehement anti-Catholics present themselves - and I'm Catholic. Incidentally, a former 10+ year Protestant at that..

 

[Kadarin]

I voted yes to both, though my opinion counts for little given that I am neither Catholic, nor religious.

I would also never marry a woman priest, as I could just never imagine one being sexually open.

 

[newParadigm]

Originally posted by: CadetLee
Where does the Bible say that it is the foundation of what you should believe? Quote: "The pillar and foundation of Truth is the Church."

ACtually the pillar and foundation of truth is the word of God.

~new

 

[WooDaddy]

I appreciate it... slightly. For future reference, throw a smiley in there..

And man.. I am SO SICK AND TIRED of the "I have a black friend".. Dammit man. It's ok. You make it worse by saying that black/asian/hispanic friend crap. Just say it. We don't bite. Things get worse by trying to sound 'down' or pc by saying you have a friend. It just makes you sound like a closet racist or trying put forward a front.

I have plenty of friends who are from different backgrounds, but does that mean I hate Finnish people less? Nope.. I hate them just as much as I dislike Icelanders (actually, I have a wierd crush on Bjork)

BTW, maybe what you observe is the fact that you have less to offer than your friend or the guys around you who happen to be black.

I have a friend who is samoan who gets more ass than I do.

Ok.. so he doesn't ... but I like that stereotype for us though.

OR maybe he does?

 

[WooDaddy]

Originally posted by: newParadime
ACtually, it does say that women shouldn't preach in the synagogues (note, they shoudl still preach to people on their own)

9 ¶ In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

~new

Geez.. Now I feel like an idiot.. I mean about thinking you were an ass from what you said earlier. Now you're the guy who's actually providing the relevant info. Good news.

You know what though, you could interpret that passage as saying Women are not to speak with indignation to men.. but...

What passage is that from? I don't want to say much more if I don't have all the facts.

 

[suse920]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: HardcoreRobot
if it will stop them from touching little boys, i say go for it

always a threadcrapper :roll:

:lips:

 

[mwtgg]

I love how many people who don't give a crap about the Catholic church or religion in general come in here and want an organization they don't care about to reform. Who cares what they do? Mind your own business.

 

[Jzero]

ATOT would be awfully boring if we all just minded our own business all day long.

Not like our discussion here means anything, either. Does anyone believe that there is a Cardinal reading ATOT and saying "Well, the majority of 100 voters in an unscientific poll on an internet forum for nerds felt that we should allow married clergy and female clergy. It's like Jesus said in Matthew 133:7 - As ATOT goeth, so goeth the body. I guess my vote is going to be for the progressive liberal candidate, then. Thanks, ATOT!"

 

[Mathlete]

Ok I am going to rant for a little bit.

I am a Catholic. I teach in a Catholic school and I read the Bible. I feel that priests should be allowed to marry but not become priests until after their children are out of the house. The reason that I believe this is because as a priest you have to be available to the people. The greatest thing about John Paul II is that he brought the faith back to the people. If we allow priests to be married with kids then they can't give their time to their flock. Priests have very little free time to devote a family. And I don't feel that women should be allowed to become priests. There are many other religous orders that they can join if they feel called to do so.

On another note, I am PISSED OFF at all the people that think that the Catholic religion should change their rules because they don't have enough priests. This reminds me of the attitude in the early 90's that not enough people were graduating high school so they made it easier to graduate. Now all of the people here b!tch because the requirements are too easy. You can't have it both ways people.

[/rant]

Edit:spelling

 

[Ynog]

Originally posted by: Mathlete
On another note, I am PISSED OFF at all the people that think that the Catholic religion should change their rules because they don't have enough priests. This reminds me of the attitude in the early 90's that not enough people were graduating high school so they made it easier to graduate. Now all of the people here b!tch because the requirements are too easy. You can't have it both ways people.

I tend to agree.

As a Catholic myself, I haven't formed a solid opinion one way or the other on either issue, married priests or female priests.

However, I do believe that the shortage of priest isn't the reason we should be allowing for married priests or female priests. If they are considering either of those two issues, the shortage of priests, shouldn't remotely factor into the decision. Although I believe that the Vatican knows this already.

I also feel that if you are going to allow for priest that are married, it should be one way only, having a married man complete Holy Orders, not priests getting married.

 

[datalink7]

And I don't feel that women should be allowed to become priests. There are many other religous orders that they can join if they feel called to do so.

But they aren't part of "many other religious orders", they are Catholic women. Why shouldn't they be able to be Priests?

 

[Mathlete]

Originally posted by: datalink7

And I don't feel that women should be allowed to become priests. There are many other religous orders that they can join if they feel called to do so.

But they aren't part of "many other religious orders", they are Catholic women. Why shouldn't they be able to be Priests?

By "religous orders" I mean Franciscian Sisters of Christian Charity(Catholic), Dominicans(Catholic), Sisters of St. Joseph(Catholic), Carmalite(Catholic) and so on. Why do they have to be priests? Nuns do a great service to the church and serve God just as well.

 

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: Mathlete

Originally posted by: datalink7

And I don't feel that women should be allowed to become priests. There are many other religous orders that they can join if they feel called to do so.

But they aren't part of "many other religious orders", they are Catholic women. Why shouldn't they be able to be Priests?

By "religous orders" I mean Franciscian Sisters of Christian Charity(Catholic), Dominicans(Catholic), Sisters of St. Joseph(Catholic), Carmalite(Catholic) and so on. Why do they have to be priests? Nuns do a great service to the church and serve God just as well.

Why not have the option to be either a Priest or a Nun?

 

[MisfitsFiend]

Yes and No (and I'm a woman for what it's worth)

 

[newParadigm]

Originally posted by: WooDaddy

Originally posted by: newParadime
ACtually, it does say that women shouldn't preach in the synagogues (note, they shoudl still preach to people on their own)

9 ¶ In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

~new

Geez.. Now I feel like an idiot.. I mean about thinking you were an ass from what you said earlier. Now you're the guy who's actually providing the relevant info. Good news.

You know what though, you could interpret that passage as saying Women are not to speak with indignation to men.. but...

What passage is that from? I don't want to say much more if I don't have all the facts.

Lol, I am dumb, forgot to quote Chapter/Verse. Its from 1 Timothy 2:9-15.

The other reference...

Originally posted by: newParadime

Originally posted by: dragonballgtz
I thought it said in the bible you should have a wife no matter who you are.

Nope, says the opposite,

7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.
9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

Its better if you can reamin unamarried, unless the desire for sex is too great, then you shoud lmarry to avoid fornication (or molestation).

~new

is from 1 Corinthians 7:7-9

~new

 

[chrisms]

Originally posted by: datalink7

And I don't feel that women should be allowed to become priests. There are many other religous orders that they can join if they feel called to do so.

But they aren't part of "many other religious orders", they are Catholic women. Why shouldn't they be able to be Priests?

It's really quite simple. The Bible forbids women to serve as priests:
"As in all the churches of the holy ones, women should keep silent in the churches, for they are not allowed to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. But if they want to learn anything, they should ask their husbands at home. For it is improper for a woman to speak in the church." (1 Corinthians 14:33-35)

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: chrisms

Originally posted by: datalink7

And I don't feel that women should be allowed to become priests. There are many other religous orders that they can join if they feel called to do so.

But they aren't part of "many other religious orders", they are Catholic women. Why shouldn't they be able to be Priests?

It's really quite simple. The Bible forbids women to serve as priests:
"As in all the churches of the holy ones, women should keep silent in the churches, for they are not allowed to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. But if they want to learn anything, they should ask their husbands at home. For it is improper for a woman to speak in the church." (1 Corinthians 14:33-35)

Ummm that was written because the Corinthian church was riddled with carnality, which part of the problems there was gossiping. That part has absolutely nothing to do with priests or who should be priests. Absolutely zero.

 

[Detayned1447]

No and no

 

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: Mathlete

Originally posted by: datalink7

And I don't feel that women should be allowed to become priests. There are many other religous orders that they can join if they feel called to do so.

But they aren't part of "many other religious orders", they are Catholic women. Why shouldn't they be able to be Priests?

By "religous orders" I mean Franciscian Sisters of Christian Charity(Catholic), Dominicans(Catholic), Sisters of St. Joseph(Catholic), Carmalite(Catholic) and so on. Why do they have to be priests? Nuns do a great service to the church and serve God just as well.

Why not have the option to be either a Priest or a Nun?

Why can't men be nuns? Is it so wrong to have gender specific roles?

 

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: Mathlete

Originally posted by: datalink7

And I don't feel that women should be allowed to become priests. There are many other religous orders that they can join if they feel called to do so.

But they aren't part of "many other religious orders", they are Catholic women. Why shouldn't they be able to be Priests?

By "religous orders" I mean Franciscian Sisters of Christian Charity(Catholic), Dominicans(Catholic), Sisters of St. Joseph(Catholic), Carmalite(Catholic) and so on. Why do they have to be priests? Nuns do a great service to the church and serve God just as well.

Why not have the option to be either a Priest or a Nun?

Why can't men be nuns?

I don't know, why can't they? I don't see a problem with it.

Is it so wrong to have gender specific roles?

Yes, when those roles bar people who are perfectly qualified from a job simply because of their sex no matter what their merit is.

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: mwtgg
Why can't men be nuns? Is it so wrong to have gender specific roles?

Perhaps my understanding of monastascism is off, but a man can become a monk, which seems to be quite similar to being a nun.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: mwtgg

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: Mathlete

Originally posted by: datalink7

And I don't feel that women should be allowed to become priests. There are many other religous orders that they can join if they feel called to do so.

But they aren't part of "many other religious orders", they are Catholic women. Why shouldn't they be able to be Priests?

By "religous orders" I mean Franciscian Sisters of Christian Charity(Catholic), Dominicans(Catholic), Sisters of St. Joseph(Catholic), Carmalite(Catholic) and so on. Why do they have to be priests? Nuns do a great service to the church and serve God just as well.

Why not have the option to be either a Priest or a Nun?

Why can't men be nuns?

I don't know, why can't they? I don't see a problem with it.

Is it so wrong to have gender specific roles?

Yes, when those roles bar people who are perfectly qualified from a job simply because of their sex no matter what their merit is.

http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ116.HTM <-- read.

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: CadetLee
http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ116.HTM <-- read.

That guy makes some good points about the history against ordaining women, but his obsession with the sexual revolution weakens his argument. In my opinion, sexual revolution and equality have nothing to do with it.

My mother was raised Catholic and left the church after a whole lot of BS about her getting married. There's a lot she misses about Catholocism, one thing in particular being the focus on the virgin Mary. While Catholocism focuses perhaps too much on the virgin Mary, in most protestant churches she's hardly more than a footnote you mention during the Advent season.

She misses the virgin Mary because, being a female, it is easier for her to relate to and understand the female experience instead of the male experience.

Likewise, one thing she really likes about the protestant church (currently Methodist) is female clergy, for much the same reason - women know women better than men.

It's not about equality, women's lib or feminism. I don't think there are a lot of people who want women priests just because there are male priests (although I suppose it could be wrong). But in my opinion, it's about drawing more people closer to God and giving them better tools and resources to understand and focus on God.