Catholocism = Christianity?

[jyates]

Originally posted by: chrisms

Originally posted by: KruptosAngelos

Originally posted by: jabamayne

Originally posted by: chrisms
Catholicism is a form of Christianity. Anyone saying otherwise is likely Protestant or is otherwise opposed to the Catholic faith. There really should be no arguement about this.

christianity (dictionary.com)

n 1: a monotheistic system of beliefs and practices based on the Old Testament and the teachings of Jesus as embodied in the New Testament and emphasizing the role of Jesus as savior [syn: Christianity, Christian religion] 2: the collective body of Christians throughout the world and history (found predominantly in Europe and the Americas and Australia); "for a thousand years the Roman Catholic Church was the principal church of Christendom"

That sums it up ...

Catholicism does not follow the teachings of the NT, which is where the arguement stems from.

If you don't mind letting me know, what is your religious affiliation? And where do you get the idea that Catholics don't follow the New Testement? They have a different interpretation of it than other faiths do, but they certainly do follow the New Testement.

It's a question of differing theology more than whether Catholics are Christians or not.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: jyates
It's a question of differing theology more than whether Catholics are Christians or not.

No, it's not. This has nothing to do with theology, just straight disregard for the teachings of Christ yet calling oneself Christian.

 

[chrisms]

Originally posted by: kinev
Catholics are not Christians.

I suppose it all depends on your definition of Christian. To me, a Christian is a person who believes in and follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. As to these teachings, there is no more important aspect of a religion than determining how you are able to be with God in Heaven when you die. Christianity and Catholicism differ on the most important aspect of religion.

Christianity teaches that Jesus died for our sins and man can receive the gift of salvation by accepting Jesus as his/her savior. Jesus himself stated that he alone was the only way to Heaven in John 14:6. So, according to Jesus himself, man receives salvation through faith in Him, not by works.

Catholicism teaches that Jesus gives a "measure" of grace, but there are other actions that have to be performed to get to Heaven. This is where the Catholic sacraments come along. Catholics do not put their faith in Jesus alone for salvation. They believe that if they perform enough sacraments to receive enough grace, they can get into Heaven. This is contrary to what the Bible and Jesus himself taught.

As others have stated, Catholicism has strayed from what the Bible teaches and has become a religion based on rituals. The Bible itself warned early Christians about becoming too ritualized and putting too much importance on ceremony.

The reasons for this distinction are pretty obvious to anybody who has studied religion. If two religions differ regarding the core aspects of those religions, they cannot be the same.

I don't think it is obvious to anyone who has studied religion. If it was, would you assume the thousands of Catholic theologans around the world, who have dedicated their lives to studying the teaching of Jesus, and who write deep interpretations of the Bible, are deliberately going against the New Testement?

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: chrisms
I don't think it is obvious to anyone who has studied religion. If it was, would you assume the thousands of Catholic theologans around the world, who have dedicated their lives to studying the teaching of Jesus, and who write deep interpretations of the Bible, are deliberately going against the New Testement?

You don't have to study much to see the differences between Christianity and Catholicism.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: Vaerilis
Before the reformation: Christianity = Catholics
After the reformation: Christianity = Catholics + Lutherans + Calvinists + Unitarians + ...

Sure.. Prior to the Reformation, the Catholic Church had this thing about exterminating Heresies..

 

[kinev]

Originally posted by: chrisms

Originally posted by: kinev
Catholics are not Christians.

I suppose it all depends on your definition of Christian. To me, a Christian is a person who believes in and follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. As to these teachings, there is no more important aspect of a religion than determining how you are able to be with God in Heaven when you die. Christianity and Catholicism differ on the most important aspect of religion.

Christianity teaches that Jesus died for our sins and man can receive the gift of salvation by accepting Jesus as his/her savior. Jesus himself stated that he alone was the only way to Heaven in John 14:6. So, according to Jesus himself, man receives salvation through faith in Him, not by works.

Catholicism teaches that Jesus gives a "measure" of grace, but there are other actions that have to be performed to get to Heaven. This is where the Catholic sacraments come along. Catholics do not put their faith in Jesus alone for salvation. They believe that if they perform enough sacraments to receive enough grace, they can get into Heaven. This is contrary to what the Bible and Jesus himself taught.

As others have stated, Catholicism has strayed from what the Bible teaches and has become a religion based on rituals. The Bible itself warned early Christians about becoming too ritualized and putting too much importance on ceremony.

The reasons for this distinction are pretty obvious to anybody who has studied religion. If two religions differ regarding the core aspects of those religions, they cannot be the same.

I don't think it is obvious to anyone who has studied religion. If it was, would you assume the thousands of Catholic theologans around the world, who have dedicated their lives to studying the teaching of Jesus, and who write deep interpretations of the Bible, are deliberately going against the New Testement?

If they adhere strictly to the teachings of the Catholic church, then, yes.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: kinev

Originally posted by: chrisms

Originally posted by: kinev
Catholics are not Christians.

I suppose it all depends on your definition of Christian. To me, a Christian is a person who believes in and follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. As to these teachings, there is no more important aspect of a religion than determining how you are able to be with God in Heaven when you die. Christianity and Catholicism differ on the most important aspect of religion.

Christianity teaches that Jesus died for our sins and man can receive the gift of salvation by accepting Jesus as his/her savior. Jesus himself stated that he alone was the only way to Heaven in John 14:6. So, according to Jesus himself, man receives salvation through faith in Him, not by works.

Catholicism teaches that Jesus gives a "measure" of grace, but there are other actions that have to be performed to get to Heaven. This is where the Catholic sacraments come along. Catholics do not put their faith in Jesus alone for salvation. They believe that if they perform enough sacraments to receive enough grace, they can get into Heaven. This is contrary to what the Bible and Jesus himself taught.

As others have stated, Catholicism has strayed from what the Bible teaches and has become a religion based on rituals. The Bible itself warned early Christians about becoming too ritualized and putting too much importance on ceremony.

The reasons for this distinction are pretty obvious to anybody who has studied religion. If two religions differ regarding the core aspects of those religions, they cannot be the same.

I don't think it is obvious to anyone who has studied religion. If it was, would you assume the thousands of Catholic theologans around the world, who have dedicated their lives to studying the teaching of Jesus, and who write deep interpretations of the Bible, are deliberately going against the New Testement?

If they adhere strictly to the teachings of the Catholic church, then, yes.

:beer:

I've talked to many-a-Catholic who say "I don't believe such-and-such is wrong" or "I believe such-and-such to be wrong" and still stick to their guns even after shown in the New Testament where Christ teaches exactly the opposite.

*shrug*

Does it really matter? Their leader's a Nazi anyway, so ... :laugh:

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Gurck
This came up the other day, I mentioined Islam being the world's most popular religion and someone disagreed, saying that because Catholocism is a facet of Christianity, much like Protestants, Methodists, etc., Christianity enjoys far greater numbers. I didn't think this was right, but since I'm not religious nor do I know much about religion, I figure I'll ask ATOT.

http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mreligio.html

Islam is scheduled to become more popular by the mid 21st century

The problem with religon is why there are sub-factors in Christianity.

I was born RC, I don't believe that dogma...esp the inquisitions.

 

[ChooChooChooseMe]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
All Catholics are Christians, but not all Christians are Catholics.

 

[FoBoT]

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out -
because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the communists
and I did not speak out -
because I was not a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out -
because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

-Martin Niemöller

 

[shortylickens]

Originally posted by: mugs
Catholics are Christians, but when someone refers to Christians, they're almost always referring to non-catholic Christians.

And therein lay trouble.
Too many folks have meant protestants when they said christians, and eventually we get so used to saying it that sometimes we come up with conflicting statements.

By the way:
There are only two main groups in christianity.
Protestants and Catholics.
Within catholics there are Irish and Roman catholics and maybe some others I dont know about.
Within protestantism exists all the lutherans and baptists and methodists and all the other stuff I cant think of right now.
The word protestant came from protest. If you protested the way the catholic church was doing things, you were a protestant. It isnt a larger group that all the other groups have to report to. It just means you dont like the catholic doctrine.

As far as some of the above posters saying that catholics have strayed so much they arent christians: Well guess what? They still believe in christ whether you like it or not.
That makes them christians.
Part of the reason so many groups broke away was they didnt like how Rome was bossing everybody around. See my first statement regarding the confusion. You folks are going to have to start reffering to yourselves as protestants if thats what you mean. And your going to have to accept the fact that other people might believe in your god too, EVEN IF THEY DONT WORSHIP HIM THE SAME WAY. Thats why you have so many more protestant groups in the US than Europe. People kept wanting to change what they believe in.

I think I had it good attending public school in MN. We dont teach religion, we teach ABOUT religion. That helps avoid all the confusion later on in life.
We also teach ABOUT the philosophies at the same time, (taoism, confusionism, buddism, few others). Again its to help avoid confusion.

P.S. My own personal belief allows for an almighty man living in the sky, but not for a mortal bossing around my spirit. So I am non-religous.
I may get into the philosophies one day.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Gurck
Wow, looks like I was wrong about them being seperate religions, good to know. Also good to know I was right about Islam having greater numbers though, thanks for the info.

Looks like you're wrong about that too.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm

32% Christian
19% Muslim

Christianity almost doubles the number of Islamic followers.

Doh

Not a good week for you on the forums, huh.

 

[dornick]

Originally posted by: kinev
Catholics are not Christians.

I suppose it all depends on your definition of Christian. To me, a Christian is a person who believes in and follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. As to these teachings, there is no more important aspect of a religion than determining how you are able to be with God in Heaven when you die. Christianity and Catholicism differ on the most important aspect of religion.

Christianity teaches that Jesus died for our sins and man can receive the gift of salvation by accepting Jesus as his/her savior. Jesus himself stated that he alone was the only way to Heaven in John 14:6. So, according to Jesus himself, man receives salvation through faith in Him, not by works.

Catholicism teaches that Jesus gives a "measure" of grace, but there are other actions that have to be performed to get to Heaven. This is where the Catholic sacraments come along. Catholics do not put their faith in Jesus alone for salvation. They believe that if they perform enough sacraments to receive enough grace, they can get into Heaven. This is contrary to what the Bible and Jesus himself taught.

As others have stated, Catholicism has strayed from what the Bible teaches and has become a religion based on rituals. The Bible itself warned early Christians about becoming too ritualized and putting too much importance on ceremony.

The reasons for this distinction are pretty obvious to anybody who has studied religion. If two religions differ regarding the core aspects of those religions, they cannot be the same.

You are incorrect in your conception of Catholicism. What Catholicism teaches is that salvation is acheived through faith in Christ AND living as an imitator of Christ. Faith (as in simple belief that Jesus dies for you) is not totally sufficient. You have to live a Christian lifestyle as well.

Catholicism does not go against the Bible. You guys should do a little reading from the other side of the table, since it looks like you've been taught what's "wrong" with Catholics pretty well.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: dornick

Originally posted by: kinev
Catholics are not Christians.

I suppose it all depends on your definition of Christian. To me, a Christian is a person who believes in and follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. As to these teachings, there is no more important aspect of a religion than determining how you are able to be with God in Heaven when you die. Christianity and Catholicism differ on the most important aspect of religion.

Christianity teaches that Jesus died for our sins and man can receive the gift of salvation by accepting Jesus as his/her savior. Jesus himself stated that he alone was the only way to Heaven in John 14:6. So, according to Jesus himself, man receives salvation through faith in Him, not by works.

Catholicism teaches that Jesus gives a "measure" of grace, but there are other actions that have to be performed to get to Heaven. This is where the Catholic sacraments come along. Catholics do not put their faith in Jesus alone for salvation. They believe that if they perform enough sacraments to receive enough grace, they can get into Heaven. This is contrary to what the Bible and Jesus himself taught.

As others have stated, Catholicism has strayed from what the Bible teaches and has become a religion based on rituals. The Bible itself warned early Christians about becoming too ritualized and putting too much importance on ceremony.

The reasons for this distinction are pretty obvious to anybody who has studied religion. If two religions differ regarding the core aspects of those religions, they cannot be the same.

You are incorrect in your conception of Catholicism. What Catholicism teaches is that salvation is acheived through faith in Christ AND living as an imitator of Christ. Faith (as in simple belief that Jesus dies for you) is not totally sufficient. You have to live a Christian lifestyle as well.

Catholicism does not go against the Bible. You guys should do a little reading from the other side of the table, since it looks like you've been taught what's "wrong" with Catholics pretty well.

read this

and this

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: dornick

Originally posted by: kinev
Catholics are not Christians.

I suppose it all depends on your definition of Christian. To me, a Christian is a person who believes in and follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. As to these teachings, there is no more important aspect of a religion than determining how you are able to be with God in Heaven when you die. Christianity and Catholicism differ on the most important aspect of religion.

Christianity teaches that Jesus died for our sins and man can receive the gift of salvation by accepting Jesus as his/her savior. Jesus himself stated that he alone was the only way to Heaven in John 14:6. So, according to Jesus himself, man receives salvation through faith in Him, not by works.

Catholicism teaches that Jesus gives a "measure" of grace, but there are other actions that have to be performed to get to Heaven. This is where the Catholic sacraments come along. Catholics do not put their faith in Jesus alone for salvation. They believe that if they perform enough sacraments to receive enough grace, they can get into Heaven. This is contrary to what the Bible and Jesus himself taught.

As others have stated, Catholicism has strayed from what the Bible teaches and has become a religion based on rituals. The Bible itself warned early Christians about becoming too ritualized and putting too much importance on ceremony.

The reasons for this distinction are pretty obvious to anybody who has studied religion. If two religions differ regarding the core aspects of those religions, they cannot be the same.

You are incorrect in your conception of Catholicism. What Catholicism teaches is that salvation is acheived through faith in Christ AND living as an imitator of Christ. Faith (as in simple belief that Jesus dies for you) is not totally sufficient. You have to live a Christian lifestyle as well.

Catholicism does not go against the Bible. You guys should do a little reading from the other side of the table, since it looks like you've been taught what's "wrong" with Catholics pretty well.

read this

and this

He is trolling son.

 

[dornick]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: dornick

Originally posted by: kinev
Catholics are not Christians.

I suppose it all depends on your definition of Christian. To me, a Christian is a person who believes in and follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. As to these teachings, there is no more important aspect of a religion than determining how you are able to be with God in Heaven when you die. Christianity and Catholicism differ on the most important aspect of religion.

Christianity teaches that Jesus died for our sins and man can receive the gift of salvation by accepting Jesus as his/her savior. Jesus himself stated that he alone was the only way to Heaven in John 14:6. So, according to Jesus himself, man receives salvation through faith in Him, not by works.

Catholicism teaches that Jesus gives a "measure" of grace, but there are other actions that have to be performed to get to Heaven. This is where the Catholic sacraments come along. Catholics do not put their faith in Jesus alone for salvation. They believe that if they perform enough sacraments to receive enough grace, they can get into Heaven. This is contrary to what the Bible and Jesus himself taught.

As others have stated, Catholicism has strayed from what the Bible teaches and has become a religion based on rituals. The Bible itself warned early Christians about becoming too ritualized and putting too much importance on ceremony.

The reasons for this distinction are pretty obvious to anybody who has studied religion. If two religions differ regarding the core aspects of those religions, they cannot be the same.

You are incorrect in your conception of Catholicism. What Catholicism teaches is that salvation is acheived through faith in Christ AND living as an imitator of Christ. Faith (as in simple belief that Jesus dies for you) is not totally sufficient. You have to live a Christian lifestyle as well.

Catholicism does not go against the Bible. You guys should do a little reading from the other side of the table, since it looks like you've been taught what's "wrong" with Catholics pretty well.

read this

and this

like I said before, those books don't have anything to do with Catholicism.

Anyway, I already know the Protestant objections, do you know the Catholic answers?

 

[Schadenfroh]

I am a baptist and i consider catholocism to be a type of christianity

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: dornick
like I said before, those books don't have anything to do with Catholicism.

Anyway, I already know the Protestant objections, do you know the Catholic answers?

Read them cover-to-cover. Would you like me to mail you mine copies?

 

[dornick]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: dornick
like I said before, those books don't have anything to do with Catholicism.

Anyway, I already know the Protestant objections, do you know the Catholic answers?

Read them cover-to-cover. Would you like me to mail you mine copies?

No thanks, I think we can settle it here (and I'm in Spain)

I'm still interested though, have you read anything at all written from the Catholic point of view?

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Gurck
Wow, looks like I was wrong about them being seperate religions, good to know. Also good to know I was right about Islam having greater numbers though, thanks for the info.

Looks like you're wrong about that too.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm

32% Christian
19% Muslim

Christianity almost doubles the number of Islamic followers.

Doh

Not a good week for you on the forums, huh.

Quite incorrect, I got a great new quote for my sig and gathered more evidence (as if more were needed) showing elite members to be far less mature than the average ATer by making a few foam at the mouth & namecall simply by holding a different opinion than them Look at you, you can't even keep it in the proper thread, your blood pressure is probably in the danger zone

 

[xirtam]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: dornick

Originally posted by: kinev
Catholics are not Christians.

I suppose it all depends on your definition of Christian. To me, a Christian is a person who believes in and follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. As to these teachings, there is no more important aspect of a religion than determining how you are able to be with God in Heaven when you die. Christianity and Catholicism differ on the most important aspect of religion.

Christianity teaches that Jesus died for our sins and man can receive the gift of salvation by accepting Jesus as his/her savior. Jesus himself stated that he alone was the only way to Heaven in John 14:6. So, according to Jesus himself, man receives salvation through faith in Him, not by works.

Catholicism teaches that Jesus gives a "measure" of grace, but there are other actions that have to be performed to get to Heaven. This is where the Catholic sacraments come along. Catholics do not put their faith in Jesus alone for salvation. They believe that if they perform enough sacraments to receive enough grace, they can get into Heaven. This is contrary to what the Bible and Jesus himself taught.

As others have stated, Catholicism has strayed from what the Bible teaches and has become a religion based on rituals. The Bible itself warned early Christians about becoming too ritualized and putting too much importance on ceremony.

The reasons for this distinction are pretty obvious to anybody who has studied religion. If two religions differ regarding the core aspects of those religions, they cannot be the same.

You are incorrect in your conception of Catholicism. What Catholicism teaches is that salvation is acheived through faith in Christ AND living as an imitator of Christ. Faith (as in simple belief that Jesus dies for you) is not totally sufficient. You have to live a Christian lifestyle as well.

Catholicism does not go against the Bible. You guys should do a little reading from the other side of the table, since it looks like you've been taught what's "wrong" with Catholics pretty well.

read this

and this

Those are both good resources. I've read them. If I remember right, the second resource kind of lumps catholics and seventh-day adventists in the same category, claiming that one can be a devout catholic and a christian and a devout sda and a christian, but that you can't legitimately follow one of the other "cults" and still be considered a christian because of mutually exclusive points.

Catholicism doesn't have anything that would exclude one from living a Christian life and having legitimate Christian beliefs. Just because some professing catholics aren't Christians doesn't mean anything... professing protestants are just as guilty, and perhaps more so. I meet people who think that because they're born in a "Christian" nation, they must be Christian. It's a good thing they weren't born in a garage. Maybe they'd think they were a car.

 

[glen]

KruptosAngelos, Nik, kinev, and others, I am not sure you really want to know the truth as much as you want to think you are right.
You might talk to a Priest or go to Catholic Answers if you were sincere. When you or anyone start digging into the faith, you will find support for the historic apostolic faiths such as the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodox, and Anglicans. The quienssential Protestant, Luthur, is essentially Catholic. He, and modern Luthurans hold a sacramental world view, and believe in Christ's Real presence in the Eucharist. I and others could go on and on defeding this view, but I am afraid it is pointless if you are not really interested in understanding more about Christianity.

 

[glen]

Originally posted by: kinev
Catholics are not Christians.

I suppose it all depends on your definition of Christian. To me, a Christian is a person who believes in and follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. As to these teachings, there is no more important aspect of a religion than determining how you are able to be with God in Heaven when you die. Christianity and Catholicism differ on the most important aspect of religion.

Christianity teaches that Jesus died for our sins and man can receive the gift of salvation by accepting Jesus as his/her savior. Jesus himself stated that he alone was the only way to Heaven in John 14:6. So, according to Jesus himself, man receives salvation through faith in Him, not by works.

Catholicism teaches that Jesus gives a "measure" of grace, but there are other actions that have to be performed to get to Heaven. This is where the Catholic sacraments come along. Catholics do not put their faith in Jesus alone for salvation. They believe that if they perform enough sacraments to receive enough grace, they can get into Heaven. This is contrary to what the Bible and Jesus himself taught.

As others have stated, Catholicism has strayed from what the Bible teaches and has become a religion based on rituals. The Bible itself warned early Christians about becoming too ritualized and putting too much importance on ceremony.

The reasons for this distinction are pretty obvious to anybody who has studied religion. If two religions differ regarding the core aspects of those religions, they cannot be the same.

Your understanding of Catholicism maybe what you have been taught about it, but it is certainly not what the Catholic Churches teaches.

 

[FoBoT]

Originally posted by: glen
I and others could go on and on defeding this view, but I am afraid it is pointless if you are not really interested in understanding more about Christianity.

that is the deal, they are doing a Clinton , bringing their own definition to the discussion. the krux of the issue is they disagree on a defintion of "christian"


the whole discussion is pointless since there is no starting point of agreement on what a "christian" is

 

[xirtam]

Originally posted by: glen
KruptosAngelos, Nik, kinev, and others, I am not sure you really want to know the truth as much as you want to think you are right.
You might talk to a Priest or go to Catholic Answers if you were sincere. When you or anyone start digging into the faith, you will find support for the historic apostolic faiths such as the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodox, and Anglicans. The quienssential Protestant, Luthur, is essentially Catholic. He, and modern Luthurans hold a sacramental world view, and believe in Christ's Real presence in the Eucharist. I and others could go on and on defeding this view, but I am afraid it is pointless if you are not really interested in understanding more about Christianity.

The catholic view centers on tradition. The protestant view centers on personal salvation through faith. We don't care about Luther any more than we praise Gutenberg every time we sit down with the daily newspaper or a Grisham novel.

Lutherans are more like catholics than most protestant denominations. But protestantism at its core centers on the fact that, while we sprang from the Catholic church, we believe the emphasis on tradition in various cases have permitted a form of dogmatic corruption.