CBO analysis of new tax bill, $100k+ earner gets big cuts, poorer earner will tax more after bill

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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,689
25,000
136
8,000,000 people are currently (2016) subject to significant tax penalties (2.5%) under the ACA mandate. Bottom line, it's regressive as hell...hurting the poor the most with 58% of the penalties going to those who make less than $50,000 a year.

Awesome job Democrats! F*ck the poor.

10% increase in premiums something like 13M losing coverage under the proposed bill. The problem you are describing is because the GOP has done what they can to sabotage how the ACA was supposed to work.

But hey honesty was never exactly your strong suit.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,875
10,300
136
8,000,000 people are currently (2016) subject to significant tax penalties (2.5%) under the ACA mandate. Bottom line, it's regressive as hell...hurting the poor the most with 58% of the penalties going to those who make less than $50,000 a year.

Awesome job Democrats! F*ck the poor.
Many of them actively choose to not buy healthcare, even though they could because Obama. Others are stuck in no man's land because of states failing to expand Medicaid.
 

repoman0

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2010
4,544
3,471
136
8,000,000 people are currently (2016) subject to significant tax penalties (2.5%) under the ACA mandate. Bottom line, it's regressive as hell...hurting the poor the most with 58% of the penalties going to those who make less than $50,000 a year.

Awesome job Democrats! F*ck the poor.

Any thoughts on the GOP plan? Since it's significantly more regressive than this, am I to take it that you support it even less than the ACA mandate?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136
8,000,000 people are currently (2016) subject to significant tax penalties (2.5%) under the ACA mandate. Bottom line, it's regressive as hell...hurting the poor the most with 58% of the penalties going to those who make less than $50,000 a year.

Awesome job Democrats! F*ck the poor.

Any reason you left out the effects on insurance costs and availability to those making less than $50,000 if the mandate were removed? I wonder if those effects aren’t way, way more regressive than the mandate itself?

No need to answer that, we already know why.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,846
13,777
146
Many of them actively choose to not buy healthcare, even though they could because Obama. Others are stuck in no man's land because of states failing to expand Medicaid.

Wife has an acquaintance who noted on Facebook that she refused to get health insurance because Obamacare is socialism which is evil and wrong.

When her son broke a bone, she drove two hours to a Native American hospital for free care because she has enough heritage to qualify.

 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,689
25,000
136
Wife has an acquaintance who noted on Facebook that she refused to get health insurance because Obamacare is socialism which is evil and wrong.

When her son broke a bone, she drove two hours to a Native American hospital for free care because she has enough of heritage to qualify.


Has she stopped driving on public roads?
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
121
10% increase in premiums something like 13M losing coverage under the proposed bill. The problem you are describing is because the GOP has done what they can to sabotage how the ACA was supposed to work.

But hey honesty was never exactly your strong suit.
I'm talking about the poor and how the Democrats have totally screwed them with the mandate....are you conceding my point or just diverting?
 

repoman0

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2010
4,544
3,471
136
I'm talking about the poor and how the Democrats have totally screwed them with the mandate....are you conceding my point or just diverting?

Diverting?!?!??!?!?! This was a thread about the GOP tax plan and you brought up the ACA mandate! Again, any thoughts on the subject of the thread?
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
121
Any reason you left out the effects on insurance costs and availability to those making less than $50,000 if the mandate were removed? I wonder if those effects aren’t way, way more regressive than the mandate itself?

No need to answer that, we already know why.
Availability? The poor will have more access to cheaper plans than ever before.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,403
8,199
126
I'm talking about the poor and how the Democrats have totally screwed them with the mandate....are you conceding my point or just diverting?

No screwing with the poor is gutting medicaid expansion and crippling the exchanges. Then they can get insurance for what the mandate penalty costs them.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136
Availability? The poor will have more access to cheaper plans than ever before.

First, nice job ignoring the price effects on insurance for the poor and how much the repeal of the mandate will hurt them. Gee, I wonder why you did that.

Second, the idea that the poor will have greater access to cheaper plans than ever before is comical, ridiculous nonsense. They will in many cases likely have access to NO plans. The Republican tax plan is only removing the mandate, it does nothing to eliminate guaranteed issue or community rating. What that does is implement on a national scale what failed spectacularly in Washington State.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...6/gJQAosKghV_blog.html?utm_term=.911a72c7a437

The state legislature, however, repealed that last provision two years later. With the guaranteed access provisions still standing, the state saw premiums rise and enrollment drop, as residents only purchased coverage when they needed it. Health insurers fled the state and, by 1999, it was impossible to buy an individual plan in Washington — no company was selling.

So tell me more about all the cheaper plans and better access. I have no idea how people convince themselves of this absolute bullshit. The power of extreme partisanship I guess.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136
Wife has an acquaintance who noted on Facebook that she refused to get health insurance because Obamacare is socialism which is evil and wrong.

When her son broke a bone, she drove two hours to a Native American hospital for free care because she has enough heritage to qualify.


I have a relative in Maryland who did much the same thing. She and her husband refused to sign up for the Evil Obamacare despite the fact that they would have easily qualified for subsidized coverage or potentially Medicaid. (I don't know how much they make but I know it's not much) Her husband had a heart attack a little less than two years back and now they are screwed financially. It's sad to see people driven to personal ruin over this sort of stupidity but they adamantly refused to see reason. It didn't hurt Obama's feelings that they didn't sign up, it didn't change the law, it just screwed them personally.

Regardless, DSF is being extremely dishonest with his framing of the mandate screwing over the poor. The poorest Americans are covered by Medicaid (or would be if Republicans would let them be), and so anyone's failure to sign up for free health care is their own fault. Of those who aren't covered by Medicaid most other poor Americans receive heavily subsidized insurance. The people you're really talking about who are screwed by the mandate are those who make too much to qualify for subsidies but too little to really afford insurance. This certainly does suck for them and is something we need to address in new legislation. The thing is, once you remove the mandate you send premiums through the roof, so while you might provide some tax relief to people who can't afford insurance right now but have to pay the mandate you also HUGELY expand the numbers of people who can't afford insurance anymore.

This is why objective analysis of removing the mandate shows around 13 million additional people losing insurance. I guess they didn't get DSF's memo about how good repealing the mandate will be for them though, haha.
 

repoman0

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2010
4,544
3,471
136
I'm talking about the GOP tax plan...the Senate tax plan repeals the mandate.

Even if it was as simple as you think, why does the plan manage to both repeal the mandate and increase taxes on people making under $75k-$100k per year? If you think the mandate means the Democrats hate the poor, surely this means that the GOP hates the poor even more and additionally hates the middle class.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,403
8,199
126
So tell me more about all the cheaper plans and better access. I have no idea how people convince themselves of this absolute bullshit. The power of extreme partisanship I guess.

ALL HAIL INTERSTATE EXCHANGES....THE HEALTHCARE SAVIOR WE NEED!
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136
ALL HAIL INTERSTATE EXCHANGES....THE HEALTHCARE SAVIOR WE NEED!

Even if that were the savior we needed it's not anywhere in this bill. Seriously all it does is remove the mandate, which absolutely screws the poor, throwing more than 10 million off their insurance. I'm as shocked as you are that when you spend $300 billion less on health care for poor people that poor people get hurt by it. This, oddly, apparently IS news to DSF, who thinks that poor people will be better off minus those $300 billion.
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
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Even if it was as simple as you think, why does the plan manage to both repeal the mandate and increase taxes on people making under $75k-$100k per year? If you think the mandate means the Democrats hate the poor, surely this means that the GOP hates the poor even more and additionally hates the middle class.
I'm not talking about those making $75k-$100k. I'm talking about the working poor who are getting totally screwed over by the mandate.
 

Billb2

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2005
3,035
70
86
Trickle down???

Boards of directors and CEOs have a fiduciary duty not to trickle down profits to employee wages! Their duty is to the stockholders not the employees, They will take the profits and reinvest them in the company, ie. stock buybacks!
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,548
13,115
136
well are ppl below 100k really "people" ? - or just some by product of real society. Its not my fault they are poor.
 

repoman0

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2010
4,544
3,471
136
I'm not talking about those making $75k-$100k. I'm talking about the working poor who are getting totally screwed over by the mandate.

I was talking about under roughly $75-100k, which includes the working poor as well as some middle class.

Again, how does the GOP plan manage to both repeal the mandate and raise taxes on that income range?
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,548
13,115
136
Trickle down???

Boards of directors and CEOs have a fiduciary duty not to trickle down profits to employee wages! Their duty is to the stockholders not the employees, They will take the profits and reinvest them in the company, ie. stock buybacks!
You have the RIGHT to work.. and not form unions.. what more do you want damnit... how much trickle you need anyway?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
The reason Repubs are removing the mandate is that fewer families will sign up thus reducing the expense of subsidies. It creates slack in the budget enabling... tax cuts for their greedy donors. Painting it as anything else is shameless deception.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,548
13,115
136
I'm talking about the poor and how the Democrats have totally screwed them with the mandate....are you conceding my point or just diverting?
And he is substituting democrats with republicans. Republicans is screwing the poor by screwing up ACA.
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
121
And he is substituting democrats with republicans. Republicans is screwing the poor by screwing up ACA.
The poor working class (8,000,000 people) are paying a 2.5% tax on their income because they can't afford health insurance. So....not only do that get a HUGE TAX PENALTY, they get ZERO INSURANCE. Democrats have a really twisted idea of what "helping" the poor looks like in the real world.
 
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