CBO analysis of new tax bill, $100k+ earner gets big cuts, poorer earner will tax more after bill

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
Since you couldn't be bothered to do any research on your own. I did it for you.

You see Doc, when you have the greatest wealth inequality in American history, there really is no need for a tax plan to increase it. The professional studies conclusively demonstrate that this tax bill is a wealth transfer from the middle and lower classes to the extremely wealthy. Every PROFESSIONAL study I have seen is basically saying the same thing..... it is a wealth transfer thing and in no way helps the middle class.

The middle class paying more harms them financially. Expensive tax bills for gifted middle class college students harms them and America. Is this too complicated for you or are you trolling us?

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-shocking-math-of-the-republican-tax-plan

I know you think this sounds compelling but if we don't tax the middle class, college students, home owners, and universities more then how are we going to make sure that children can inherit more than $11 million dollars without having to pay any taxes for that money they did nothing to earn?

Much better to tax the people who work and actually produce things. It's what the Founding Fathers would have wanted.
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
121
Since you couldn't be bothered to do any research on your own. I did it for you.



You see Doc, when you have the greatest wealth inequality in American history, there really is no need for a tax plan to increase it. The professional studies conclusively demonstrate that this tax bill is a wealth transfer from the middle and lower classes to the extremely wealthy. Every PROFESSIONAL study I have seen is basically saying the same thing..... it is a wealth transfer thing and in no way helps the middle class.

The middle class paying more harms them financially. Expensive tax bills for gifted middle class college students harms them and America. Is this too complicated for you or are you trolling us?



https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-shocking-math-of-the-republican-tax-plan
This assumes that the tax breaks for the low/middle class won't be extended in 2025 and I highly doubt either party would allow that to happen.
 

fleshconsumed

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2002
6,485
2,363
136
This assumes that the tax breaks for the low/middle class won't be extended in 2025 and I highly doubt either party would allow that to happen.
You have been shown CBO report that said even if you extend tax rate breaks the lower half of the population is still going to end up paying more than they did thanks to various deductions going away.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
This assumes that the tax breaks for the low/middle class won't be extended in 2025 and I highly doubt either party would allow that to happen.

So in other words when the Republicans are saying their tax bill costs $1.4 trillion they are lying as now we're expanding the debt by $2-3 trillion for tax breaks while the economy is at full employment and even if middle class tax breaks don't expire the vast majority is still going to the ultra rich. Even smarter! Then when the next recession comes conservatives will be pointing to the national debt and screaming about how we have to cut back because our debt will doom us.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Exactly...how is this going to harm the middle class? I must have missed that part during all your wailing and gnashing of teeth.

There's the minor matter of an extra $1.5T in debt & cuts in all sorts of govt spending.

There's also the matter of increasing already enormous inequality to the breaking point.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
So in other words when the Republicans are saying their tax bill costs $1.4 trillion they are lying as now we're expanding the debt by $2-3 trillion for tax breaks while the economy is at full employment and even if middle class tax breaks don't expire the vast majority is still going to the ultra rich. Even smarter! Then when the next recession comes conservatives will be pointing to the national debt and screaming about how we have to cut back because our debt will doom us.

Why do they fuck it up? Is it so the top .01% can buy up even more during a recession? Like full employment is the time to pay down the debt.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
I am so depressed and angry. The pricks actually are going after college kids as well. The smartest kids in America working on cutting edge scientific research and they marked them off for extra taxes. I don't know if that will remain when all is said and done but it would not surprise me in the least.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/28/gop-tax-plan-higher-education-263538

I'm really hoping we, your friendly neighbours to the north, pass some new tax law to specifically loot you folks of graduate students. (We make them pay tuition, but what if we didn't?)

University Affairs - International student enrolment rises by 11 percent at Canada’s universities

Fall enrolment data are in for 2017, showing a two-percent rise in full-time undergraduate students in Canada, with variations by region, and a 10.7 percent surge nationwide in international students compared to the previous year. The data were collected through preliminary surveys by the Association of Atlantic Universities, the Bureau de coopération interuniversitaire, the Council of Ontario Universities and Universities Canada.

International student enrolment increased in all provinces except New Brunswick, which reported a 5.7 percent decrease. Increases ranged from two percent in Saskatchewan to nearly 13 percent in P.E.I. and Ontario; British Columbia had biggest gain – 15.6 percent – in international students compared to the previous year.

The boom in new international students in Canada signifies that “students around the globe are increasingly choosing the internationally recognized quality of a Canadian university education,” said Universities Canada president Paul Davidson, adding, “the benefits for Canada are tremendous.” (In both 2015 and 2016, international student enrolment increased year-over-year by seven percent.)​
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
Why do they fuck it up? Is it so the top .01% can buy up even more during a recession? Like full employment is the time to pay down the debt.

I would say the simplest solution is the most likely. They genuinely believe that rich people pay too much in taxes and so decreasing that is a good thing. They also likely primarily associate with the rich and hear their perspective the most. Finally, people who play ball in the conservative movement are well taken care of by donors later through lobbying jobs, think tank positions, etc.

So basically they probably always thought making the rich richer was a good idea and now they have large financial incentives to do so.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
I would say the simplest solution is the most likely. They genuinely believe that rich people pay too much in taxes and so decreasing that is a good thing. They also likely primarily associate with the rich and hear their perspective the most. Finally, people who play ball in the conservative movement are well taken care of by donors later through lobbying jobs, think tank positions, etc.

So basically they probably always thought making the rich richer was a good idea and now they have large financial incentives to do so.

so basically they are horrible human beings.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,821
29,575
146
So, if the republicans can't figure out how to write a real tax bill, pretty much the only thing they claim to be capable of doing, then what the fuck is the point of their party?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
so basically they are horrible human beings.

Some of them, sure. There’s a legitimate ideology that says taxation is fundamentally bad and we should do as little of it as possible and as equally as possible though. I imagine some of them genuinely believe this and I don’t hold it against them even though I find it kind of silly.

What I object to most is the craven dishonesty with which they pursue this objective. They know their ideology is unpopular and so the only way they can implement it is through lying. That’s why you get deficit hysteria when Democrats are in charge followed by huge deficit increasing tax cuts. It’s why they claim tax cuts for rich people will make poor people better off. It’s why they tried to rush their health bill and this bill through before anyone could analyze their effects and then when people did they just claimed those bad effects weren’t real.

They know people hate what they want to do but instead of admitting that they figure it’s best to trick the unwashed masses into it. The sheer contempt they have for us and their voters in particular is what I dislike by far the most and THAT is why they are horrible people.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
Some of them, sure. There’s a legitimate ideology that says taxation is fundamentally bad and we should do as little of it as possible and as equally as possible though. I imagine some of them genuinely believe this and I don’t hold it against them even though I find it kind of silly.

What I object to most is the craven dishonesty with which they pursue this objective. They know their ideology is unpopular and so the only way they can implement it is through lying. That’s why you get deficit hysteria when Democrats are in charge followed by huge deficit increasing tax cuts. It’s why they claim tax cuts for rich people will make poor people better off. It’s why they tried to rush their health bill and this bill through before anyone could analyze their effects and then when people did they just claimed those bad effects weren’t real.

They know people hate what they want to do but instead of admitting that they figure it’s best to trick the unwashed masses into it. The sheer contempt they have for us and their voters in particular is what I dislike by far the most and THAT is why they are horrible people.

except they are willing to tax certain people more. Like liberals in affluent states.
 
Reactions: darkswordsman17
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
136
I'm really hoping we, your friendly neighbours to the north, pass some new tax law to specifically loot you folks of graduate students. (We make them pay tuition, but what if we didn't?)

University Affairs - International student enrolment rises by 11 percent at Canada’s universities

Fall enrolment data are in for 2017, showing a two-percent rise in full-time undergraduate students in Canada, with variations by region, and a 10.7 percent surge nationwide in international students compared to the previous year. The data were collected through preliminary surveys by the Association of Atlantic Universities, the Bureau de coopération interuniversitaire, the Council of Ontario Universities and Universities Canada.

International student enrolment increased in all provinces except New Brunswick, which reported a 5.7 percent decrease. Increases ranged from two percent in Saskatchewan to nearly 13 percent in P.E.I. and Ontario; British Columbia had biggest gain – 15.6 percent – in international students compared to the previous year.

The boom in new international students in Canada signifies that “students around the globe are increasingly choosing the internationally recognized quality of a Canadian university education,” said Universities Canada president Paul Davidson, adding, “the benefits for Canada are tremendous.” (In both 2015 and 2016, international student enrolment increased year-over-year by seven percent.)​

It's more to do with the fact that Canadian universities make a fair chunk of change from foreign students. It's become a big part of their 'business' and they recruit heavily to keep that cash flowing in.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
701
126
except they are willing to tax certain people more. Like liberals in affluent states.

People like Paul Ryan have been wanting to 'broaden the base' and make taxes 'fairer' as long as I can remember. Broaden the base and fairer = lower and middle paying more and upper paying less. Of course, Ryan is a flat tax advocate where everyone pays the same rate.
 
Reactions: darkswordsman17

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
It's remarkable how tax cuts at the top & deregulated fractional reserve lending can create more consumer debt than there is liquidity to service it. When investors figure that out they hoard liquidity & the credit market collapses. Business contracts enormously. Millions lose their jobs & govt bailout becomes a necessity. It's the story of the Ownership Society. The GOP loves that story. They want to read it to us again.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Perhaps the universities will have to dip into their multi-billion dollar endowments and pay them a little bit more to compensate. It's not the end of the world....things have a way of working out.
That is so hilariously misguided. How many universities are you going to destroy the ability to do high-end research to get back at those meanies at Harvard and Stanford? Hundreds?
 
Reactions: darkswordsman17

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,431
3,537
126
Perhaps the universities will have to dip into their multi-billion dollar endowments and pay them a little bit more to compensate. It's not the end of the world....things have a way of working out.

Given the substantial student loan market and its easy money availability along with the cultural push for everyone to go to college there is no market pressure for universities to increase compensation rates.
 
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