CCW will get you... killed?

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,534
911
126
http://abcnews.go.com/US/man-minnesota-police-killed-traffic-stop/story?id=40402805

This is just fucked up beyond all belief.

Reynolds can be heard saying on video that the officer "asked him for license and registration. He told him that it was in his wallet, but he had a pistol on him because he's licensed to carry. The officer said don't move. As he was putting his hands back up, the officer shot him in the arm four or five times.”

In the interview with CNN this morning, Castile's mother said both her son and daughter have concealed weapon permits for Minnesota. Just hours before her son was fatally shot, Valerie Castile said he was at her house talking with his sister about how concealed-carry permit holders must be cautious, especially African-Americans.

"My daughter said, ‘You know what, I really don’t even want to carry my gun because I’m afraid that they’ll shoot me first and then ask questions later,’” Valerie Castile told CNN.

Valerie Castile said she believes her son told the police officer he was licensed to carry a gun.

“I’m sure he did because that was something we always discussed. Comply," she told CNN this morning. "That’s the key thing in order to survive being stopped by the police is to comply. Whatever they ask you to do, do it. Don't say nothing. Just do whatever they want you to do. So what's the difference in complying and you get killed anyway?"
 

CraKaJaX

Lifer
Dec 26, 2004
11,905
148
101
I read this as 'counter-clockwise will get you killed'

Confusion followed.
 

olds

Elite Member
Mar 3, 2000
50,071
744
126
Lots of things get you killed. Ignorance is one of them.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,970
8,215
126
Interacting with a criminal organization can get you killed, armed or not.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,534
911
126
Lots of things get you killed. Ignorance is one of them.

Reading the article it doesn't appear that he did anything wrong though. According to the article, he told the cop he was carrying and that he had a license to carry. He was going for his wallet like the officer asked him to do and when he was ordered to put his hands up he did so. Then he got shot four times.

Granted, we only have part of the story here but I doubt a law-abiding, CCW holder would draw on a cop during a simple traffic stop.
 

clamum

Lifer
Feb 13, 2003
26,252
403
126
Heard about this on the radio on the drive into work. They played the audio from the video; man the girlfriend was calm and really handled herself well despite the situation.

Sounds like the guy moved after the cop said "don't move" but unless you were a fly on the windshield you don't really know what went on. He sounded really agitated on the audio that I heard.

Horrible situation nonetheless. The guy definitely didn't deserve to die over this.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,418
1,599
126
Reading the article it doesn't appear that he did anything wrong though. According to the article, he told the cop he was carrying and that he had a license to carry. He was going for his wallet like the officer asked him to do and when he was ordered to put his hands up he did so. Then he got shot four times.

Granted, we only have part of the story here but I doubt a law-abiding, CCW holder would draw on a cop during a simple traffic stop.

Sounds exactly like the story of a cop telling the guy to get his ID and when he went to the car to get it, the cop shot him. Luckily other dude survived.
 

TwiceOver

Lifer
Dec 20, 2002
13,544
44
91
Need the audio/video from the dash cam. If the officer asks the guy for his license and then gets shot... Gonna be a bad rest of his life in jail. Right now all we have is cell phone video, after the fact, and a lot of conjecture.

I'm not leaning any which way on this currently, but generally if you are asked for your identification and permit you are going to reach for your pocket... Officer has to understand that.
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,844
1,049
126
CCW - unless you're in the ghetto, more trouble than it's worth.
 

luv2liv

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2001
3,498
94
91
very sad. from all of these traffic stop shootings, this is what i learned:
1- have license and registration ready in hands, clearly visible.
2- set up and conceal recording device.
3- comply with everything. sue later if needed be.
 

NesuD

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,999
106
106
Always disclose as you are handing your license and registration to the officer not before. your hands are in plain view in a non threatening way and his hands are busy with what you are handing him and you are complying with the law that requires you to disclose. At that point follow his directions to the letter. He may just look at your CPL and ask where the weapon is located in the vehicle. He may ask you to surrender your weapon for the duration of the traffic stop. Pay close attention and do exactly as you are told. Most cops are fine but some like apparently this one are so terrified while on the job they completely lose control. I certainly hope this department does the right thing and holds the officer responsible for his actions. That is assuming it did in fact go down as was represented in the linked article.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,534
911
126
Always disclose as you are handing your license and registration to the officer not before. your hands are in plain view in a non threatening way and his hands are busy with what you are handing him and you are complying with the law that requires you to disclose. At that point follow his directions to the letter. He may just look at your CPL and ask where the weapon is located in the vehicle. He may ask you to surrender your weapon for the duration of the traffic stop. Pay close attention and do exactly as you are told. Most cops are fine but some like apparently this one are so terrified while on the job they completely lose control. I certainly hope this department does the right thing and holds the officer responsible for his actions. That is assuming it did in fact go down as was represented in the linked article.

Many years ago I remember getting pulled over on my motorcycle by a motorcycle cop for speeding. I was going 45 in a 45 zone but it was a school zone (with no children present) and every single vehicle around me was going the same speed as I was... but I digress.

He pulled me over, I turned the motor off and put the bike on the side stand and got off and as he walks up I'm fumbling with my jacket trying to turn off my ipod so I can hear the guy and I'm thinking afterward that that probably wasn't the brightest thing to do but he just stood there and waited for me to finish and remove my helmet so we could converse.

He was cordial and I was polite. He gave me a ticket and sent me on my way. Probably could have been worse though if he was the paranoid type.
 

twinrider1

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2003
4,096
64
91
This is potentially a really messed up situation. Will need to see the events leading up the video before passing final judgement.
 

Slacker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
8,623
33
91
I got pulled over while carrying/licensed, told the cop and he didn't blink, wrote my ticket and said good day.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,142
5,088
136
CCW - unless you're in the ghetto, more trouble than it's worth.

For years cop friends have told me that if you have CCW or legally have a gun in the car that they do not want to be told because "paperwork".
However, these are old timers.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
This one definitely is more "worthy" a cause than the guy down in Louisiana. The guy down in Louisiana was a sex offender, was carrying a gun, was reported he threatened someone with the gun, had like 5 kids, was resisting arrest.

This guy was none of that.
 

SSSnail

Lifer
Nov 29, 2006
17,458
82
86
Many years ago I remember getting pulled over on my motorcycle by a motorcycle cop for speeding. I was going 45 in a 45 zone but it was a school zone (with no children present) and every single vehicle around me was going the same speed as I was... but I digress.

He pulled me over, I turned the motor off and put the bike on the side stand and got off and as he walks up I'm fumbling with my jacket trying to turn off my ipod so I can hear the guy and I'm thinking afterward that that probably wasn't the brightest thing to do but he just stood there and waited for me to finish and remove my helmet so we could converse.

He was cordial and I was polite. He gave me a ticket and sent me on my way. Probably could have been worse though if I was black/brown or have tattoos.
Fixt that for you.
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,518
223
106
For years cop friends have told me that if you have CCW or legally have a gun in the car that they do not want to be told because "paperwork".
However, these are old timers.

I would always rather know. This is a decent representation of the last CCW I recall stopping (granted, it's been a few years now):

"I have a concealed carry permit and my firearm is behind my right hip."

"Thanks, you don't touch yours and I won't touch mine, alright?"

"Yes sir."

and life goes on!
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,142
5,088
136
I would always rather know. This is a decent representation of the last CCW I recall stopping (granted, it's been a few years now):

"I have a concealed carry permit and my firearm is behind my right hip."

"Thanks, you don't touch yours and I won't touch mine, alright?"

"Yes sir."

and life goes on!

I live in an area where gun permits are tightly controlled. If you want a rifle or a shotgun then that's one thing. If you want a pistol permit you better "know a guy" at the precinct\sheriffs office.
It's a situation that has pissed a lot of people off.
Even if you are a model citizen, the chances of getting a pistol permit is a crap shoot. If you walk into the precinct\sheriffs office while black and you can't name drop then don't even bother.
If you are black you would have to walk in with someone who is currently on the job while wearing a "Make America Great Again t-shirt".

So generally not a lot of CCW people getting pulled over and when they do, it complicates the stop. Screws up the flow of conversation when all you want to do is issue a citation for speeding.
For a lot of guys, they just want to go back to playing words with friends. Last thing they want is to remember the talking points for a CCW.

Might just be the attitude that sets in when you are close to retirement at the ripe old age of 42-48.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
It has come out that the guy who called the police on him was a homeless guy who was harassing him for money. He refused, flashed his gun at homeless guy, homeless guy calls police on him. Police don't know the full story, they see him and then this happens.
 
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