!! CERN claims faster-than-light particle measured

Page 7 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,770
347
126
Tessla is what happens when someone actualy understands what the hell he's talking about.

Tesla also thought space was filled with ether: which turned out to be true.
 

bwanaaa

Senior member
Dec 26, 2002
739
1
81
I wonder how much of this premature publication is a response to the growing discontent of not finding the Higgs particle.
 

Locut0s

Lifer
Nov 28, 2001
22,281
43
91
Tessla is what happens when someone actualy understands what the hell he's talking about.

Tesla also thought space was filled with ether: which turned out to be true.

Tesla was very smart and an important figure in history. But people overplay his level of genius and give him legendary status. And no there is no ether, certainly not in the way he thought there way. There are some things in science that you could pretend is an ether but no respectable scientist would call it that.
 

Locut0s

Lifer
Nov 28, 2001
22,281
43
91
I wonder how much of this premature publication is a response to the growing discontent of not finding the Higgs particle.

They released their findings cause even they think there is likely something wrong with their numbers but they can't seem to find what after months of searching. They want others to run the same test elsewhere to confirm of disprove what they are seeing.
 

Locut0s

Lifer
Nov 28, 2001
22,281
43
91
Tesla said that neutrinos would travel faster than the speed of light almost 80 years ago but nobody believed him.

From this quote he theorized that there might be neutral particles that travel faster than light. There's no other info there. Neutrinos are VERY specially defined in modern physics they aren't JUST neutral particles.
 

Locut0s

Lifer
Nov 28, 2001
22,281
43
91
I don't think anyone was expecting to have found the HB by now.

The LHC has now ruled out the Higgs existing in something like 95-98% of the energy levels that it should be in with a similar level of certainty. Which isn't to say they still won't find it, but it's looking less likely. They MAY find it at a higher energy level than predicted but that would require new physics or a major reworking of physics, but then NO Higgs particle would too.
 

sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
8,172
137
106
I wonder how they came up with this? How do they know for sure how fast the earth is actually travelling in absolute terms?
...

Really?


You might not be comprehending what I'm asking. Let's go back to basic special relativity. If I'm on a giant ball of rock hurtling through space at 0.01C (1% of the speed of light), and I turn on a flashlight and shine it in the direction I'm heading, the speed of that flashlight's beam, relative to my own speed, will be ____? Ok so now when you shine a particle beam from one point on earth to another point on earth, you have to know exactly how fast the earth is traveling, AND in exactly what direction, in order to calculate this supposed margin of error. I just question whether they have the correct data. And I wonder how far off would it have to be to produce a few dozen nS of error.
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,770
347
126
Laughlin disagrees with you Lo:
It is ironic that Einstein's most creative work, the general theory of relativity, should boil down to conceptualizing space as a medium when his original premise [in special relativity] was that no such medium existed . . .
The word 'ether' has extremely negative connotations in theoretical physics because of its past association with opposition to relativity. This is unfortunate because, stripped of these connotations, it rather nicely captures the way most physicists actually think about the vacuum. . . . Relativity actually says nothing about the existence or nonexistence of matter pervading the universe, only that any such matter must have relativistic symmetry.

It turns out that such matter exists. About the time relativity was becoming accepted, studies of radioactivity began showing that the empty vacuum of space had spectroscopic structure similar to that of ordinary quantum solids and fluids. Subsequent studies with large particle accelerators have now led us to understand that space is more like a piece of window glass than ideal Newtonian emptiness. It is filled with 'stuff' that is normally transparent but can be made visible by hitting it sufficiently hard to knock out a part. The modern concept of the vacuum of space, confirmed every day by experiment, is a relativistic ether. But we do not call it this because it is taboo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aether_theories#Contemporary_Ideas

You might not be comprehending what I'm asking. Let's go back to basic special relativity. If I'm on a giant ball of rock hurtling through space at 0.01C (1% of the speed of light), and I turn on a flashlight and shine it in the direction I'm heading, the speed of that flashlight's beam, relative to my own speed, will be ____? Ok so now when you shine a particle beam from one point on earth to another point on earth, you have to know exactly how fast the earth is traveling, AND in exactly what direction, in order to calculate this supposed margin of error. I just question whether they have the correct data. And I wonder how far off would it have to be to produce a few dozen nS of error.

This is false.


___ is C; not some function of C.

it is time that changes based on speed (not direction): but since the emitter and collector are going the same speed it's controlled for.


Now if the emitter or collector were going different speeds this would be a problem.
 

Paul98

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2010
3,732
199
106
You might not be comprehending what I'm asking. Let's go back to basic special relativity. If I'm on a giant ball of rock hurtling through space at 0.01C (1% of the speed of light), and I turn on a flashlight and shine it in the direction I'm heading, the speed of that flashlight's beam, relative to my own speed, will be ____? Ok so now when you shine a particle beam from one point on earth to another point on earth, you have to know exactly how fast the earth is traveling, AND in exactly what direction, in order to calculate this supposed margin of error. I just question whether they have the correct data. And I wonder how far off would it have to be to produce a few dozen nS of error.

There is no such thing as absolute speed there is only relative speed. You say you're on a giant ball of rock moving through space at .01c, compared to what? If you shine the flashlight in the direction your heading you will see the light move away from you at c.

If you are in a space ship and I am on earth. Lets say you are moving away from earth at .5c( which means earth is moving away from you at .5c also. ) Now you shine a flash light in the direction you are moving with respect to you the light moves away from you at c. But from earth's frame of reference the light from the ship light is also moving at c, and away from you at .5c. So the light is moving away from your ship at c and at .5c, just depends on the frame of reference you chose. But to any inertial frame of reference light moves at c in there own frame of reference.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,307
2,099
126
February 11, 2009 9:42 PM

(AP) Scientists have apparently broken the universe's speed limit.

For generations, physicists believed there is nothing faster than light moving through a vacuum -- a speed of 186,000 miles per second.

But in an experiment in Princeton, N.J., physicists sent a pulse of laser light through cesium vapor so quickly that it left the chamber before it had even finished entering.

The pulse traveled 310 times the distance it would have covered if the chamber had contained a vacuum.

Researchers say it is the most convincing demonstration yet that the speed of light -- supposedly an ironclad rule of nature -- can be pushed beyond known boundaries, at least under certain laboratory circumstances.

In the latest experiment, researchers at NEC developed a device that fired a laser pulse into a glass chamber filled with a vapor of cesium atoms. The researchers say the device is sort of a light amplifier that can push the pulse ahead.

Previously, experiments have been done in which light also appeared to achieve such so-called superluminal speeds, but the light was distorted, raising doubts as to whether scientists had really accomplished such a feat.

The laser pulse in the NEC experiment exits the chamber with almost exactly the same shape, but with less intensity, Wang said.

The pulse may look like a straight beam but actually behaves like waves of light particles. The light can leave the chamber before it has finished entering because the cesium atoms change the properties of the light, allowing it to exit more quickly than in a vacuum.

The leading edge of the light pulse has all the information needed to produce the pulse on the other end of the chamber, so the entire pulse does not need to reach the chamber for it to exit the other side.

Teleporters. D:
 

JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
11,774
919
126
There is no such thing as absolute speed there is only relative speed. You say you're on a giant ball of rock moving through space at .01c, compared to what? If you shine the flashlight in the direction your heading you will see the light move away from you at c.

If you are in a space ship and I am on earth. Lets say you are moving away from earth at .5c( which means earth is moving away from you at .5c also. ) Now you shine a flash light in the direction you are moving with respect to you the light moves away from you at c. But from earth's frame of reference the light from the ship light is also moving at c, and away from you at .5c. So the light is moving away from your ship at c and at .5c, just depends on the frame of reference you chose. But to any inertial frame of reference light moves at c in there own frame of reference.

That's something I never fully understood. I get the math works out that way but it doesn't make sense. Say your example is flipped. A ship is coming towards earth at .5c and is 1.5yl out. Earth fires a laser at it and hits it 1 year later. On the ship, the laser is only coming at c instead of 1.5c so they live another 6 months?
 

Locut0s

Lifer
Nov 28, 2001
22,281
43
91
Problem solved. Not surprisingly they were NOT moving faster than c. Course the solution still needs checking but it seems tight.

http://dvice.com/archives/2011/10/speedy-neutrino.php

LOL they forgot relativity. Well in part of their setup anyway. I'm sure they factored in relativity elsewhere.

You would think that in a room full of particle physicists someone would have had this eureka realization. It's not like it's some esoteric math fuck up.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,904
12,374
126
www.anyf.ca
Damn, I was really hoping they were right, it would open a whole bunch of new doors, so to speak.

Maybe they need to stick a 1.21 jiggawatt heat element in there to really speed up those particles, and see some serious shit.
 

Mr. Pedantic

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2010
5,039
0
76
So...any word back yet? Or are we to assume that this was just an error in calibration or measurement?

Why is it that when it comes to particle physics and cosmology everyone suddenly becomes an expert? I know very little about particle physics but reading about it and trying to understand as much as I can from a lay persons point of view is a serious hobby of mine. Even with the little I know I can tell you that 90% of the stuff people are saying in this thread is just ridiculous stuff they pulled out of thin air. We don't do this with other topics, why physics? To give you some perspective some of what people are saying in this thread is equivalent to having a piece of software crash and saying "well I guess the programmers set the IRQ switches wrong". I'm not saying I know a lot about the topic but I know enough to know this is essentially the level of many of the posts here. Why do this guys?
It's not just physics. It's human psychology.
 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
There never was any doubt that there was a mistake somewhere. We found out in a hurry who the uneducated idiots were in this thread. The same crowd who believe 911 was an inside job or that the Russians murdered JFK.

LOL
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |